Is Repentence Necessary?

[Darkdale]

Can you give an example of how you would "make it right"?

Apologize, make up for it with a gift, or a kind act, or do some work or just fulfill a need. There are many ways to make a situation right and, of course, it is always specific to the whatever you have done to wrong someone. Sometimes just saying that you are sorry (or actually just being sorry) is enough. Other times, you may to actually make up for it (you brake a window, you buy a new one; you offend someone, you ask them how you can make up for it and do that).

Now, some people do not know how to forgive and for these people, you'll never be able to make things right. So, the virtuous thing to do is to apologize, leave them with a gift of some kind, and cut your ties.

 

[Scott1]

That's why I don't believe it's necessary to my path, but I think the idea of wanting to correct your own actions, not to do them again, and to feel very badly for having done them in the first place might be more of a human 'thing' than a spiritual one.

Wonderful.... so good to learn this about your faith.

I do feel sorry for actions that hurt no one but myself, because I'm only just now starting to realize that I do not deserve to be hurt by anyone, least of all myself.

Amen.

Now, some people do not know how to forgive and for these people, you'll never be able to make things right. So, the virtuous thing to do is to apologize, leave them with a gift of some kind, and cut your ties.

Cool... thanks for the education about your faith.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Same questions for you Terry (sorry, I'm in a inquisative mood tonight ;-) )

Why do you seek to be in the Grace to face God?

I guess I'll have to ask a leading question to be clear: Do you repent out of fear or love?

I have never felt the need to fear God.
I do not think it is possible to repent out of fear.
It is the shame of letting down God in the face of his love, that makes us want to repent. It is only by truly loving him in return that we get back on track.

Terry________________________-
Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.

 

[Aqualung]

Sorry, I was not clear.... why do you feel bad that you sinned?
Even if you are sincere, why do you feel badly?
I guess I'm not being clear... I'm trying to find out why YOU repent..... what is your motivation to do so?

I probably feel bad when I sin both due to a knowledge that what I did was a sin and that still small voice of the holy ghost that tells me that. I repent because I love my Heavenly Father, and I know He loves me, and repentence is a good way to show that love, and without repentence I will never be able to return to live with Him.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

(Off-topic, I know, but I had to give a 'shout-out' to your new avatar, Scott! Extremely cool, just like yourself!)

 

[Scott1]

It is the shame of letting down God in the face of his love, that makes us want to repent. It is only by truly loving him in return that we get back on track.

Beautifully said.

I repent because I love my Heavenly Father, and I know He loves me, and repentence is a good way to show that love, and without repentence I will never be able to return to live with Him.

Glad to hear we agree.

Great answers everyone, thank you!

 

[Scott1]

(Off-topic, I know, but I had to give a 'shout-out' to your new avatar, Scott! Extremely cool, just like yourself!)

Thanks buddy! Gotta give "props" to the boss.

 

[Aqualung]

(Off-topic, I know, but I had to give a 'shout-out' to your new avatar, Scott! Extremely cool, just like yourself!)

Yes, that's what I was thinking. Though of course it threw me off (like it always does when people change their avatars). And now I will probably start thinking of Scott as a 70 year old man, whereas I used to think he was maybe 30.

 

[Darkdale]

I agree that I think we're talking about different things, Scott. Since Pagans tend to not have the concept of sin, I'm not sure if we can be repentant, in the Christian definition. That's why I don't believe it's necessary to my path, but I think the idea of wanting to correct your own actions, not to do them again, and to feel very badly for having done them in the first place might be more of a human 'thing' than a spiritual one.

I do feel sorry for actions that hurt no one but myself, because I'm only just now starting to realize that I do not deserve to be hurt by anyone, least of all myself. The various dieties I hold in esteem did not intend for me to do things that might hurt myself, so I try to steer clear of doing so.

Very well put.

I always get annoyed by my mother, because she honestly doesn't feel bad about the horrible things she has done, because, she says, "I'm already forgiven". All she cares about is God's forgiveness, she couldn't care less about whether or not the person she harmed forgives her. I'm the opposite. I want to earn the persons' forgiveness, and I think that is what makes the gods proud.

 

[Katzpur]

As Kathryn says, Feathers, you are just a 'natural repenter'.............


I agree we all do wrong ( and I would say most of the time ); is feeling sorry actual repententence ? I would have thought that there would be much more to repentence than feeling sorry - somehow, I feel I have to do something particularly good to 'atone' for what I have done wrong. Yet, I don't think that is particularly 'healthy' - because I find myself doing things I would never choose to do.......and thence sometimes feel resentful.........I find this all very difficult to deal with.

To me, repentence involves feeling remorse, making restitution when applicable, and resolving not to do the same thing again. Easier said than done.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Very well put.

I always get annoyed by my mother, because she honestly doesn't feel bad about the horrible things she has done, because, she says, "I'm already forgiven". All she cares about is God's forgiveness, she couldn't care less about whether or not the person she harmed forgives her. I'm the opposite. I want to earn the persons' forgiveness, and I think that is what makes the gods proud.

That is a good way for a christian to feel to.

You can not be free from sin. if you don't love others, especially those you may have hurt. Nor can you have truly repented.
The Idea that we are saved, and that's it, is a sadly mistaken view. and I see it as a cop out.

Terry______________________________
Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.

 

[Katzpur]

It is the shame of letting down God in the face of his love, that makes us want to repent.

Oh, darn! :149: I can't frubal you twice within the space of a minute and a half!

I agree with everything you've said. :clap

 

[Darkdale]

That is a good way for a christian to feel to.

You can not be free from sin. if you don't love others, especially those you may have hurt. Nor can you have truly repented.
The Idea that we are saved, and that's it, is a sadly mistaken view. and I see it as a cop out.

Terry______________________________
Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.

I find that it is typical. However, I forgive my family unconditionally and therefore I no longer ask them to make things right. Instead, I try to set an example. If I do something wrong, I do what I can to earn their forgiveness or to at least show appreciation for their forgiveness.

Just got to set an example and hope they realize that my example is better than theirs. Eventually they'll get the picture.

 

[Darkdale]

It is the shame of letting down God in the face of his love, that makes us want to repent. It is only by truly loving him in return that we get back on track.

Terry________________________-
Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.

I think that's sad. It's just so different from where I am at. It is the shame of letting down my friends and family, my reputation or whoever I hurt that makes me want to repent. It's the friends and family or the person I've harmed that is the victim, not God. It's the person or relationship I've harmed that needs to be repaired.

 

[Scott1]

It's just so different from where I am at. It is the shame of letting down my friends and family, my reputation or whoever I hurt that makes me want to repent. It's the friends and family or the person I've harmed that is the victim, not God. It's the person or relationship I've harmed that needs to be repaired.

I may look at things differently, but I've gotta say that this sounds better than a lot of non-theistic methods of morality that I've heard.....:clap

 

[Darkdale]

I may look at things differently, but I've gotta say that this sounds better than a lot of non-theistic methods of morality that I've heard.....:clap

I think it is difficult to talk about beliefs, in the sense that what really matters is how we translate them into action. I suppose, if we both do our best to make things right and to strengthen relationships and to build up our friends and families, that objectively speaking, we are both doing good. The religious paradigm that instigates are actions isn't really where the right or wrong is... I don't think anyway. But we do seem to express everything so differently.

 

[Katzpur]

I think that's sad. It's just so different from where I am at. It is the shame of letting down my friends and family, my reputation or whoever I hurt that makes me want to repent. It's the friends and family or the person I've harmed that is the victim, not God. It's the person or relationship I've harmed that needs to be repaired.

Darkdale,

From my perspective, when you harm any of God's children, you harm Him, too. You don't have kids of your own, but when you do, I can assure you that this will make more sense. If someone harms one of my kids (and they're adults now), I personally feel their pain. As their mother, I hurt right along with them because I love them. You know, maybe you could relate to what I'm saying if you were to consider how you would feel if someone were to hurt your mom or take advantage of her in any way. Wouldn't you hurt, too? For someone who believes in a truly personal God, it's entirely logical to think that when we hurt a member of His "family," we also hurt Him. And since He sent His own Son to atone for our sins, we are hurting His Son, too. Since I believe that He took upon Himself my guilt, I wouldn't want to be responsible for any more of His agony than necessary.

Kathryn

 

[michel]

Darkdale,

From my perspective, when you harm any of God's children, you harm Him, too. You don't have kids of your own, but when you do, I can assure you that this will make more sense. If someone harms one of my kids (and they're adults now), I personally feel their pain. As their mother, I hurt right along with them because I love them. You know, maybe you could relate to what I'm saying if you were to consider how you would feel if someone were to hurt your mom or take advantage of her in any way. Wouldn't you hurt, too? For someone who believes in a truly personal God, it's entirely logical to think that when we hurt a member of His "family," we also hurt Him. And since He sent His own Son to atone for our sins, we are hurting His Son, too. Since I believe that He took upon Himself my guilt, I wouldn't want to be responsible for any more of His agony than necessary.

Kathryn

*outch* I had never though that when we hurt others we hurt God, although now that you say it, it makes perfect sense.........I guess I must have hurt God a lot over the years........

 

[Darkdale]

Darkdale,

From my perspective, when you harm any of God's children, you harm Him, too. You don't have kids of your own, but when you do, I can assure you that this will make more sense.

I guess that is one of the differences; I don't think of the gods as "father" or "mother". I don't think of the gods as being that emotionally attached to us. For that reason, I believe the buck stops with us. We aren't responsible to the gods, we are responsible to ourselves, to our friends and families and to our ancestors. I am far more worried about disappointing my father than I am any of the gods. So we really do see things differently.

 

[michel]

I guess that is one of the differences; I don't think of the gods as "father" or "mother". I don't think of the gods as being that emotionally attached to us. For that reason, I believe the buck stops with us. We aren't responsible to the gods, we are responsible to ourselves, to our friends and families and to our ancestors. I am far more worried about disappointing my father than I am any of the gods. So we really do see things differently.

Vive la différence !