to stephen,,hi steve,,replying to your post of 12/5 re numbers brings us to an interesting idea. Numbers have no real existence of themselves!,,when we say "three" what do we mean? the number after two ,and before four,thats one view.If I say visualize three ,you might ask me three of what? You see three exists as something,, three oranges,three elephants or three of something.Aristotle and Acquinas said these things were called "accident",,they had no existence in themselves ,but existed in something else. Colors like red , shapes like round etc are other examples of "accidents." "Numbers mirror our cognition of them,,",,mabey in some way.Dr. Geo. Gamow the noted physist wrote a book ,,"one ,two,three,infinity",,the title was based on an african tribe whose numbering system only went to three,,after that was infinity! So much for objectivity........harley davidson