Is it wrong to harvest animals for food?

[Ormiston]

Please give your reasoning as well. I think it is not wrong. We need to harvest animals for food. It's not practical to do otherwise. And, if it is ok to raise one cow and eat it, then it is ok to raise cows en mass for food.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

its perfectly alright to go out and kill something if you NEED it, or raise a cow with love and kill it when it is needed, but i dont think its cool to mass-produce and mass-slaughter cows and other livestock.

 

[michel]

My view on this is a bit different from the norm. I have myself 'labelled' as UU, but I still have some Christian roots, + a bit of Buddhism + a bit of Pagan.

To me, anything that lives - and therefore the animal which has had to be killed to feed me, in addition to vedgetables, and fruit are all life forms.

I understand that I have to eat, and how much of a debt of gratitude I owe to what I eat - the sacrifice these 'living beings' have made, in order for me to sustain myself.

 

[Melody]

I believe life is life, whether it's plant or animal. If I believe it's wrong to take life to sustain my own, then I'm going to starve to death fairly quickly.

Unfortunately, our society has changed so significantly that it is impossible for everyone to raise their own food and so are dependent on the "mass produced". I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as the animals are treated humanely.

Than again, I have the luxury of being able to afford my belief system. I have the financial wherewithal to spend more on the organic, humanely raised plants and animals. Some people are not able to. I don't think this makes them a bad person.

 

[michel]

I believe life is life, whether it's plant or animal. If I believe it's wrong to take life to sustain my own, then I'm going to starve to death fairly quickly.

Unfortunately, our society has changed so significantly that it is impossible for everyone to raise their own food and so are dependent on the "mass produced". I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as the animals are treated humanely.

Than again, I have the luxury of being able to afford my belief system. I have the financial wherewithal to spend more on the organic, humanely raised plants and animals. Some people are not able to. I don't think this makes them a bad person.

I agree, but I still feel as if I am puting my life before theirs....

 

[Ormiston]

its perfectly alright to go out and kill something if you NEED it, or raise a cow with love and kill it when it is needed, but i dont think its cool to mass-produce and mass-slaughter cows and other livestock.

what if you raise a cow apathetically but responsibly and kill it only because you want to eat it?

 

[Melody]

I agree, but I still feel as if I am puting my life before theirs....

And we are. I attach no guilt to it, but always keep in mind that something sacrificed it's life for mine.

 

[Caprice]

I think that God gave dominion of the earth to Adam and Eve (thus by proxy, us) for a reason. As long as we are using our resources wisely I see no sin in it. I also see no reason why if someone wants to be vegan they should be given any trouble about it. Their choice sorta thing.

 

[Neo-Logic]

Survival of the fittest. When it comes down to it, we're all willing to do what is required for us to live, even if it means killing other life forms and using their energy to sustain ourselves. Seeing as how I have no religion, I'm not prohibited to consume anything. I'm a sort of vegetarian ... I try not to eat meat as much as possible sticking to dairy, fruits, and veggies, but if offered in some else's house or in other situations where non-meat products are unavailable, then I won't refuse it also. I think it's just a matter of personal preference.

 

[Druidus]

Why should I cause suffering, especially unneccessary sufferring? Plants cannot feel pain, no matter what you do to them. Animals can. One can thrive on a vegan diet with very little effort, indeed, all studies have shown vegans to be healthier and stronger on average than omnivores.

If you eat meat, it is, in my opinion, selfish[font=Arial, Helvetica]. For the sake of an unnecessary taste sensation, you deprive another sentient being of life.
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[font=Arial, Helvetica]
[/font]Survival of the fittest. When it comes down to it, we're all willing to do what is required for us to live, even if it means killing other life forms and using their energy to sustain ourselves.

But you don't need to kill sentient beings to survive. Besides this, why would it not be ok to kill and eat humans, if survival of the fittest reigns supreme.

I am glad to be able to join such an esteemed group of people as these:

[font=Arial, Helvetica] Truely man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men.

~Leonardo da Vinci

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] "For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."

~Pythagoras, mathematician

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~Romain Rolland, author, Nobel Prize 1915

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~George Bernard Shaw

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Mahatma Gandhi, statesman and philosopher

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Mark Twain

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Thomas Edison, inventor

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Buddha

~Jesus

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] "Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds? It is certainly not lions and wolves that we eat out of self-defense; on the contrary, we ignore these and slaughter harmless,tame creatures without stings or teeth to harm us, creatures that, I swear, Nature appears to have produced for the sake of their beauty and grace. But nothing abashed us, not the flower-like like tinting of the flesh, not the persuasiveness of the harmonious voice, not the cleanliness of their habits or the unusual intelligence that may be found in the poor wretches. No, for the sake of a little flesh we deprive them of sun, of light, of the duration of life to which they are entitled by birth and being."

~Plutarch

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Leo Tolstoy

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~St. Francis of Assisi



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[Ormiston]

Why should I cause suffering, especially unneccessary sufferring? Plants cannot feel pain, no matter what you do to them. Animals can. One can thrive on a vegan diet with very little effort, indeed, all studies have shown vegans to be healthier and stronger on average than omnivores.

If you eat meat, it is, in my opinion, selfish[font=Arial, Helvetica]. For the sake of an unnecessary taste sensation, you deprive another sentient being of life.
[/font]
But you don't need to kill sentient beings to survive. Besides this, why would it not be ok to kill and eat humans, if survival of the fittest reigns supreme.

I am glad to be able to join such an esteemed group of people as these:

[font=Arial, Helvetica]Truely man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men.

~Leonardo da Vinci

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."

~Pythagoras, mathematician

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~Romain Rolland, author, Nobel Prize 1915

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~George Bernard Shaw

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~Mahatma Gandhi, statesman and philosopher

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~Mark Twain

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~Thomas Edison, inventor

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~Buddha

~Jesus

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]"Can you really ask what reason Pythagoras had for abstaining from flesh? For my part I rather wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man did so, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds? It is certainly not lions and wolves that we eat out of self-defense; on the contrary, we ignore these and slaughter harmless,tame creatures without stings or teeth to harm us, creatures that, I swear, Nature appears to have produced for the sake of their beauty and grace. But nothing abashed us, not the flower-like like tinting of the flesh, not the persuasiveness of the harmonious voice, not the cleanliness of their habits or the unusual intelligence that may be found in the poor wretches. No, for the sake of a little flesh we deprive them of sun, of light, of the duration of life to which they are entitled by birth and being."

~Plutarch

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~Leo Tolstoy

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~St. Francis of Assisi



[/font]

Surprisingly, somewhat convincing. Props Druidus.

 

[Caprice]

indeed, all studies have shown vegans to be healthier and stronger on average than omnivores.

The studies are full of crap. While I'll agree that eating copious amounts of beef is not the healthiest route, the japanese are some of the healthiest people on the planet and they eat fish, among other things I'm sure.
[font=Arial, Helvetica]
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."

~Pythagoras, mathematician

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]~Romain Rolland, author, Nobel Prize 1915

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~George Bernard Shaw

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Mahatma Gandhi, statesman and philosopher

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Mark Twain

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Thomas Edison, inventor

[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica] ~Buddha

~Jesus
[/font]

If you are going to attribute Jesus to the statement above, please give me some sort of a biblical verse. Otherwise, I think it is kinda silly to put words into His mouth.

 

[Ormiston]

The studies are full of crap. While I'll agree that eating copious amounts of beef is not the healthiest route, the japanese are some of the healthiest people on the planet and they eat fish, among other things I'm sure.
[font=Arial, Helvetica]
[/font]If you are going to attribute Jesus to the statement above, please give me some sort of a biblical verse. Otherwise, I think it is kinda silly to put words into His mouth.

This just reminded me of something I'd heard about evolution. Does anyone know if it is a true (scientifically proven) that carniverous behavior is mainly responsible for our larger brains?

 

[Fluffy]

As Melody so rightly says, to eat an animal is to put its life before your own. Yet I do enjoy being morally consistent and since I am not prepared to eat my brother, and thereby put his life before my own, I've decided to go the other way and just not eat animals full stop.

 

[Loki]

I'll start by saying that I am a vegetarian, and that i do not believe in animal agriculture. I am a believer that any animals eaten should be hunted and killed to orer, rather than being produced on a large agricultural scale. Not only is hunting wild animals the ultimate in free range, but also, the amount of grain, particularly soybeans fed to cattle is obscene. The amazon is being cut down to grow soybeans, and a heavy proportion of the grown product acts as cattle feed. To me, eating lower down in the food chain seems better. I'm still at the top, or at least until they clone a load of velociraptors, i will be, anyway, so why should i care about not exerting my authority at being at the top of the food chain? After all, I don't need a penis extension!

I am a vegetarian because i would only want to eat meat that I have killed myself, and i'm not one to do the killing part of it. I believe that en masse animal agriculture is awful. If there are any non-vegetarians out there, i would advise that you look at a man called Hugh-Fearnley Whittingstall. His attitude to meat is one of the best I've seen. He's quite happy to eat it, and he's even written a book about it. However, he is insistent on good quality, and he dislikes factory farms.

Mass scale agriculture of animals just seems wrong to me. There is no respect for the origins of the food. If you are going to eat meat, I believe you should have some respect for what you are eating. n times gone by, people would kill the animal, and eat it, but respect the fact that something died for it. Nowadays, people will scoff on McRubbish without giving a second thought.

So in short, i have nothing wrong with animals being used as a source of food. However, animal agriculture is not good. This Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall guy is a very good guy with some very good attitudes towards meat, and anyone who does eat meat, and even those who don't would be wise to check him out.

 

[Fluffy]

I'll start by saying that I am a vegetarian, and that i do not believe in animal agriculture. I am a believer that any animals eaten should be hunted and killed to orer, rather than being produced on a large agricultural scale. Not only is hunting wild animals the ultimate in free range, but also, the amount of grain, particularly soybeans fed to cattle is obscene. The amazon is being cut down to grow soybeans, and a heavy proportion of the grown product acts as cattle feed. To me, eating lower down in the food chain seems better. I'm still at the top, or at least until they clone a load of velociraptors, i will be, anyway, so why should i care about not exerting my authority at being at the top of the food chain? After all, I don't need a penis extension!

Free range meat is not a sustainable resource. In fact, as the population rises, more and more meat will have to be produced through factory farming because there is simply not enough space. Far more crops and energy can be produced in a space in which pastoral farming would provide to a lesser extent. Furthermore, arable farming is more healthy for the environment.

It is interesting that you bring attention to the fact that parts of the amazon are being cut down to produce soybeans. Considering the infertility of the amazonian soil, I think you will find that such a thing is a rarity when you compare this to the land that is used for keeping and grazing animals.

Edit: Oh! and welcome fellow Englandian!!!!

 

[Druidus]

The studies are full of crap.

And you base this on what, besides anecdotal evidence? I prefer the scientific route.

Yale Study

Tests have shown that vegetarian have twice the stamina of meat eaters. At Yale, Professor Irving Fisher designed a series of tests to compare the stamina and strength of meat-eaters against that of vegetarians. He selected men from three groups: meat-eating athletes, vegetarian athletes, and vegetarian sedentary subjects. Fisher reported the results of his study in theYale Medical Journal .

"Of the three groups compared, ... the flesh-eaters showed far less endurance than the abstainers (vegetarians), even when the latter were leading a sedentary life."​

Overall, the average score of the vegetarians was over double the average score of the meat-eaters, even though half of the vegetarians were sedentary people, while all of the meat-eaters tested were athletes.

Paris Study

A comparable study was done by Dr. J. Ioteyko of the Academie de Medicine of Paris. Dr. Ioteyko compared the endurance of vegetarians and meat-eaters from all walks of life in a variety of tests.



Danish Study

In 1986, a Danish team of researchers tested a group of men on a variety of diets, using a stationary bicycle to measure their strength and endurance. The men were fed a mixed diet of meat and vegetables for a period of time, and then tested on the bicycle. The average time they could pedal before muscle failure was 114 minutes.

These same men later were fed a diet high in meat, milk and eggs for a similar period and then re-tested on the bicycles. On the high meat diet, their pedalling time be-fore muscle failure dropped dramatically - to an average of only 57 minutes.

Later, these men were switched to a strictly vegetarian diet, composed of grains, vegetables and fruits, and then tested on the bicycles. The lack of animal products didn't seem to hurt their performance - they peddled for an average of 167 minutes.

Belgium Study

Doctors in Belgium systematically compared the number of times vegetarians and meat-eaters could squeeze a grip-meter. The vegetarians won handily with an average of 69, whilst the meat-eaters averaged only 38. As in all other studies which have measured muscle recovery time, here, too, the vegetarians bounced back from fatigue far more rapidly than did meat eaters.

As for the Japanese, compare them to the Hunza. Less than 1.5% of their caloric intake is animal-based. The majority of that is milk. And yet, they have the longest lifespan of any people. They also remain active during the time, with the average person still contributing in all activities up into their eighties.

If you are going to attribute Jesus to the statement above, please give me some sort of a biblical verse. Otherwise, I think it is kinda silly to put words into His mouth.

Much like the Bible authors did (remember, Jesus didn't write it, men did)? Allow me to explain:

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Many leaders of the early church were vegetarian. Eusebius says that James the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian, and in fact was evidently raised as a vegetarian (Ecclesiastical History 2.23). Why would Jesus’ parents have raised James as a vegetarian, unless they were vegetarian themselves and raised Jesus as a vegetarian as well? Eusebius also states (Proof of the Gospel 3.5) that all the apostles abstained from meat and wine. Other famous early Christians who were vegetarian, based on statements made by them or about them, included Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Basil the Great, John Chrysostom, Arnobius, Tertullian, and Jerome.

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Hegesippus gives a remarkable account of James, the brother of the Lord, and the first ruler of the Christian Church in Jerusalem. James, we are told was Holy from birth. He drank no wine nor strong liquor, nor ate he any living thing. A razor never went upon his head, and neither used the bath nor anointing with oil. Even his clothes were free from any taint of death for he wore no woolen but linen garments only., " It is a remarkable fact that Instead of being represented as a sectary at the head of a new school of religious thought antagonistic to the ancient Hebrew faith, we are told that he, and he alone, was permitted to enter the sanctuary.

That the physical puritanism of abstainence from intoxicants and flesh-meats was not an ideal foreign to Judaism we know from the examples of the Rechabites, the Nazarites, the Nazarenes, and the Essenes. The accounts that have come down to us of the last named sect are very interesting and suggestive. They lived in a brotherly community, they cultivated the land, they observed the Sabbath strictly, they refused to swear, they abstained from intoxicants and flesh.

James was a Nazarite from birth (much like Sampson, but Sampson had the oath forced on him by God). If James was a Nazarite (raised that way by Joseph) why should Jesus not be, seeing as they were in the same family. Besides this, nowhere in the bible does Jesus advocate the consumption of flesh, nor does he eat it himself. Before you quote the bread and fish story, I'll tell you now that the word was mistranslated. It should have been fishweed, a seaweed commonly consumed with bread in that area.

As well, regarding fish, it should be noted that the word "fish" was often meant as a symbol:

"Fish" is another frequently mistranslated word in the Bible. Its reference is often not to the form of swimming life, but to the symbol by which early Christians could identify each other. It was a secret sign, needed in times of persecution, prior to official acceptance of Christianity as a state religion.

The sign of the fish was a mystical symbol and conversational password. Its name deriving from the Greek word for fish, "ichthus" Much later it was represented an acrostic, composed of leading letters of the Greek phrase, "Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter"-"Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour."

 

[painted wolf]

My religion holds all life to be equil, plant and animal... I kill no matter what I eat. The key is to show respect for that life. I certenly disagree with factory farming, of both plants and animals.
Animals should be shown as much respect and given as much dignaty as possible. If it wasn't for thier sacrifice we would not live.

'of Nazarith' means from the town of Nazarith... it doesn't nessisarily mean he was a Nazarine.. not everyone from Nazarith was a Nazarine, nor were Naxarine's nessiarily from Nazarith

wa:do

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Plants cannot feel pain, no matter what you do to them.

But they do have life, and a soul. When you kill a plant to eat it, you are killing a living thing.
My psychology teacher told his class one day of a science experiment done that involved plants that were grown in a controlled environment that had no windows, only artificial lighting. One day, a researcher walked in wearing a white lab coat. He beat one of the plants to the point
were he completly destroyed it. After that happened, anytime someone walked in wearing white, the plants would start sending off these vibrations. Im not completly sure of the source, allthough it would probably be on the APA site, since thats were my psychology teacher got most of his internet articles from.

The studies are full of crap. While I'll agree that eating copious amounts of beef is not the healthiest route, the japanese are some of the healthiest people on the planet and they eat fish, among other things I'm sure.

Cats, dogs, rats, mice, and RAW fish.
But thier are studies have shown that it is healthier for the average person to live on a vegan diet. The reason it is considered healthier for the average person is because different people need different diets. The average american that doesnt get enough exercise should eat little or no meat. But someone who is a bodybuilder benefits from foods with high protien, such as fish. People who run marathons need a higher carb intake, since carbs are a good source of energy.

I will say I love the taste of deer,snake, fish, goat, and other meats. However, I wouldn't kill the animal just to eat it. Something like deer or snake I would only kill and eat on some special occasion. Allthough I don't feel it is enough, I do try to repay the earth for the animal by contributing to charitys like Pals-for-Paws, planting a tree, or something to give back to the earth. If I buy the meat from a store, I will only buy what I can use.

 

[Druidus]

'of Nazarith' means from the town of Nazarith... it doesn't nessisarily mean he was a Nazarine.. not everyone from Nazarith was a Nazarine, nor were Naxarine's nessiarily from Nazarith

No, a Nazarite is different. Someone who takes the vow of the Nazarite never kills anything, never touches dead flesh, and never drinks wine (or anything made with grapes). James was a Nazarite (though he may not have taken the vow, he did fit the requirements), and he was raised that way. Why would Jesus not be?

But they do have life, and a soul. When you kill a plant to eat it, you are killing a living thing.

This point is moot when you realize that you kill far less by being a vegan.

The average American eats some 90 animals every year. What did these 90 animals eat? Plants. The average cow eats more pounds of plants every year than a human possibly could. If you eat that cow, along with some plants of your own, you've killed many more beings than otherwise. If cows were dropped down from there absurd population numbers (in the billions) much less plantlife would be killed. If you really equate life to life, you'd go vegan, as that kills far less beings.