Is God dead? Atheism finds a market in U.S

[nutshell]

It's a bummer that both sides don't recognize that science and religion can coexist without stomping on faith or preventing scientific innovations.

 

[MaddLlama]

Uh-huh. And Western Europe, as a predominantly Atheistic society, isn't possessed of all the characteristics you criticize me for associating with atheists: consumer fetishism, vapid materialism and egoism? Is that what you're saying? I live in Western Europe, Booko. I have a different impression of it than you, perhaps.

And, you think that if everyone were one religion that would be better? I know a place like that....it's called the "deep south", and that's where all of the problems of political and rabid fundamentalist Christianity comes from.

 

[Random]

And, you think that if everyone were one religion that would be better? I know a place like that....it's called the "deep south", and that's where all of the problems of political and rabid fundamentalist Christianity comes from.

Why do you automatically assume that I would want religious conformity? That's nothing to do with what I'm saying, I don't want that @ all. Hell, I personally don't even HAVE a proper religious identity in the way that you would mean it.

Jeez, I started out trying to be somewhat positive and reasonable about Atheism, now I'm forced by yours and Booko's misjudgements into defending an indefensible position. Well, I have no intention of doing that. All I'll say is that for Americans who think a lot will change societally with the rise of Atheism, they are in for a not-so-pleasant surprise and a load of new problems to replace the old (religious) ones.

 

[Random]

It's a bummer that both sides don't recognize that science and religion can coexist without stomping on faith or preventing scientific innovations.

I recognize that, so do many other intelligent people. But there is intransigence on both sides, as you say. It's a pity and a waste that some feel there has to be a pyrhic "victory" for either Atheism or religion. No-one can possibly gain from such a belief, even the belief that this victory can actually be attained, which is unlikely and to a reasonable person, undesirable.

 

[lilithu]

Atheism is a great way of putting aside all those pesky questions Science doesn't concern itself with and getting on with the good things in life: vapid materialism, consumer fetishism and unbridled egoism.

I think that we're conflating two separate issues here, as we often do with the term 'atheism.' There's atheism which literally means a lack of belief/non-belief. And then there's atheism which refers to a worldview that does not include God. When you're refering to just the literal meaning of the word, yeah I agree, it's kind of an empty term. Someone who would say "I'm an atheist" and stop there hasn't thought very much about things. But when you're refering to the worldview that is encompassed in the label atheism, a worldview of naturalism and humanism, I don't think they are any more prone to "vapid materialism, consumer fetishism and unbridled egoism" than the people who claim to be theists and yet don't think much about what it means to have faith in God. Simply saying "I believe..." is also a great way of putting asside questions.

Our new office manager is not a UU (she's Baha'i from Iran) and she finds our ways strange (understandably so). For example, she didn't understand how it could be that over 40% of UUs are non-theistic. She asked, "Why would an atheist want to go to church?" And I was trying to explain to her that there is such a thing as a religious atheist. There is. At this point in my life, I can tell the difference between a religious atheist and a non-religious atheist. (And even the people whom I consider to be religious atheists may argue with me here because to them the word religious is an insult, but it isn't to me.) There are atheists who very thoughtfully consider what it means to be a human in this world, and what their obligations are to other humans and to the world. They see the bigger picture. They have a spiritual discipline (tho they may or may not use that term). They just don't use the concept of God. And the way that they respond to conflict - how they treat other people who disagree with them - is different than the way a non-religious atheist responds. It's different than the way that a lot of supposedly religious people respond.

So yeah, if you're just talking about the word 'atheist', I dislike that word too because it says next to nothing. But if you're talking about people who call themselves atheist, I wouldn't assume anything about the state of their spiritual development based on just the label.

 

[Random]

But when you're refering to the worldview that is encompassed in the label atheism, a worldview of naturalism and humanism, I don't think they are any more prone to "vapid materialism, consumer fetishism and unbridled egoism" than the people who claim to be theists and yet don't think much about what it means to have faith in God. Simply saying "I believe..." is also a great way of putting asside questions.

Yes, I accept this. Thank you for making an excellent point and not attacking me.

 

[lilithu]

All I'll say is that for Americans who think a lot will change societally with the rise of Atheism, they are in for a not-so-pleasant surprise and a load of new problems to replace the old (religious) ones.

Ya, I would agree with that.

But this isn't a new development imo. This is just a repackaging, a swing of the pendulum, based partly on reaction and partly on the "need for new." So just as fashion swings from long skirts to miniskirts, we go from religious revivals to periods of secularism. Anyone remember the 70's? Even if one is too young to remember it personally, one can study history. We go from Great Awakenings to predictions of the imminent demise of religion pretty regularly.

 

[Booko]

Uh-huh. And Western Europe, as a predominantly Atheistic society, isn't possessed of all the characteristics you criticize me for associating with atheists: consumer fetishism, vapid materialism and egoism? Is that what you're saying? I live in Western Europe, Booko. I have a different impression of it than you, perhaps.

I was unaware that I accused you of anything, quite frankly.

btw, did you miss the question mark?

 

[Random]

I was unaware that I accused you of anything, quite frankly.

btw, did you miss the question mark?

That's cool, I understand now you were asking me from the point of view of living here, I get it. :sorry1: I'm really tired and had a very bad day @ work. Apologies again, it's sometimes my characteristic flaw: over-sensitivity. Thanks for bothering to reply to me, Booko.

 

[Spirit Channeller]

First of all, marijuana doesn't produce delusions or halucinations so your analogy is worthless.
Second of all, there is plenty of anthropological and sociological evidence to support the atheist conclusion that religion is, as Marx put it, the opiate of the masses.

Just because I don't believe that your God's exist doesn't mean I'm crazy.

I don't use Marijuana but I do believe all Plants and everything else that grows in the Earth that is a natural food or plant is meant to nourish the body or for Medicimal purposes even tobacco and other things that we rage against.
Tobacco for Example changes and becomes dangerous when its burned and changed chemically then its inhaled into the lungs and this where the problems come from.
Now as far as Marijuana I am thinking its normally smoked and changed chemically just as is tobacco and I was thinking just yesterday about all of this and I thought what would happen if the Marijuana Plant was treated like the leaves of Green Tea and brewed up and drank for medicimal purposes would it be more effective and less adulterated and or how would lawmakers feel about it.
After all if people want Marijuania for Medicimal purposes they shouldn't care if its drank in a Tea or put into a Capsule or anyway they could get it and perhaps lawmakers would not find the idea of Marijuana for medicimal purposes so objectionable.

 

[Spirit Channeller]

Well the OP and the responses that followed it pretty much mirror the way I feel and have felt about religion for some time. Religion is divisive and leads to an us vs. them mentality. There is no rational reason to beleive in anything supernatural, and yet people are killing and torturing one another the world over because the "them's" are not worshipping some mythical being in the way that the "us's" think is proper.

B.

You are right in saying much Evil is done in the name of Religion, and yes it does lead to much conflict and two sides butting heads and little is usually solved.
But no rathional reason to believe in supernaturally I don't agree with because while I can't prove it I know beyond a shadow of a doubt myself that even Athiests live on in the After Life.
I know this because each day I am in communication with Relatives and others who have passed over.
Hopefully one day more and more people will know what I know and I believe everyone could do that if we think of this more as a Scientific proving and more Scientists would begin to delve more into this kind of Research.
I prefer to use what I am learning more in a Scientific way and less as a tool to argue religion.
I also believe if more opened up their minds and got more into exploring their Psychic Abilities they could learn the things I and other Psychics know and together we could prove some of these things to be true.

 

[Sunstone]

Atheism is not going to replace religion anytime soon. Religiosity is rooted in human nature, and it is quite unlikely that many people will ever forego it so long as our species exists.

 

[eudaimonia]

There definitely is a "market" for Atheism now more than ever, especially amongst people "shopping" for belief systems which don't challenge or require anything of them in any way.

I think that atheism can be quite challenging, since it means that one will likely have to construct one's understanding of the world for oneself.

Atheism is a great way of putting aside all those pesky questions Science doesn't concern itself with and getting on with the good things in life: vapid materialism, consumer fetishism and unbridled egoism.

I don't know any atheists who do this. It certainly does not describe me.

I have often tried to envision what a predominantly Atheistic society would be like

What is an "Atheistic society"? The term is nearly meaningless if atheism simply pertains to the god issue. Societies in which a large percentage of people are atheists could have vastly different cultures.

I think in many ways it wouldn't be unlike the dreamworld of the Matrix in the movies, making here the analogy of atheists as the Matrix-dwelling oblivious Bluepills to the Real World dwelling minority of believers or Redpills (Neo and chums). I mean this as a somewhat flattering view of an atheistic world, not a put-down. The obliviousness of the Atheist-Bluepills is a direct result of denial of or ignorance of anything supernatural in life.

I imagine that you might view it that way, but I suspect that an atheistic society could be very philosophical, and even spiritual in a way, even if no supernatural realm or influence were recognized.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Smoke]

Atheism is a great way of putting aside all those pesky questions Science doesn't concern itself with and getting on with the good things in life: vapid materialism, consumer fetishism and unbridled egoism.

I don't know any atheists who do this. It certainly does not describe me.

I don't know any atheists like that, either, but I'm sure there probably are some. I'm equally sure that there are a great many believers like that, too; otherwise vapid materialism, consumer fetishism and unbridled egoism would be a great deal rarer in our undeniably religious society.

 

[logician]

Atheism is a much surer path to truth, than religious dogma.

 

[lilithu]

Atheism is a much surer path to truth, than religious dogma.

Spoken like a true believer!

 

[nutshell]

Atheism is a much surer path to truth, than religious dogma.

That sentence itself is dogmatic!

 

[Pah]

There definitely is a "market" for Atheism now more than ever, especially amongst people "shopping" for belief systems which don't challenge or require anything of them in any way....

Truth is always a challange; seciring rights are always a challange in the fight against privilege. Powerful men and powerful government are a challange in this day and age to acheive equal treament of religious expression.

 

[Pah]

Atheism is a much surer path to truth, than religious dogma.

That sentence itself is dogmatic!

Dogma is a term usually reserved for promulgated faith and is generally accepted by the adherents. Atheism has nothing to lead one to truth apart from the character of thought that went into the conclusion. No dogma there

 

[nutshell]

Dogma is a term usually reserved for promulgated faith and is generally accepted by the adherents. Atheism has nothing to lead one to truth apart from the character of thought that went into the conclusion. No dogma there

I bed to differ.

From yourdictionary.com

"2. An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true."

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/d/d0323500.html

His statement was dogma.:yes: