I sometimes wonder how long it will be before scenes like this are repeated in America's prison systems:
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Is forced labour in prisons ethical?
- Thread starter danieldemol
- Start date
I sometimes wonder how long it will be before scenes like this are repeated in America's prison systems:
Audie
Veteran Member
Everything is conditional.
Of course some cannot be expected to work.
Nobody would dispute that.
A listing here of such exceptions would be tedious
and pointless.
And speaking of point, what's the point of
your thread here?
The point of the thread is whether or not it is ethical to *force* prisoners to work in my view.
Interpret this as you wish, but I've lost both patience and respect for your posts here. I'm sure that others will continue to engage you.
Suit yourself, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
This is interesting to me because my youngest brother had a complete mental breakdown, committed some crimes, and was not bailed out by anyone, so until his trial he was incarcerated in Arkansas. He didn't do a bit of work, and was deemed incompetent to stand trial, and sent to a mental institution to get as straight as he possibly can be. He never did one lick of work anywhere, and now, though he CAN work part time, he won't. So he's not working at all, still. With his college degree and everything. Now, to be clear, I don't think he should work anywhere, but he can so there's that. But I wouldn't want him working with me.
I say it's ethical.
Slavery is wrong because of coercion (in the extreme). Punishment
by incarceration is coercion for a just purpose, ie, dissuading people
from criminal behavior.
It should also rehabilitate, & prepare inmates for return to society.
If prisoners work, this could serve both goals.
Prison does far worse things than forcing labor....
- Solitary confinement.
- Exposing inmates to high levels of physical abuse & murder.
- Poor medical care.
I work by choice.
Were I imprisoned, & denied work, this would be worse for me.
Even if forced, work occupies the mind & body.
Do you think it would have done his mental health any good to have been stuck in solitary confinement?
Audie
Veteran Member
You'd have dispute that with yourself.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
No. And he wasn't, thankfully.
OK
So you believe people commit crimes because prison is not punishing enough? I don't, I believe the causes of crime are far more complex and that punishment does not deter those causes.
Well for the record I'm not denying that prisoners who want to work should be allowed to.
So how do you prevent abusive work if prisoners are not even allowed to go on strike without punishment?
Well your argument appears to have been that people who are in the general population are forced to work. Do we stick people in the general population who go on strike in solitary confinement? It seems a system prone to abuse to me.
No.
That's an odd inference.
I say that crime has multiple causes.
Do you have evidence that the threat
of prison doesn't deter crime?
I'll spare you anecdotes of people
I know who learned their ways must
change because they wanted never to
return to prison.
The big problem I see is that because voters care
little about prison reform, elected leaders have no
interest in it. So the system runs without proper
oversight to protect inmate rights, to rehabilitate,
or for alternative (potentially better) punishments.
I've no solution to this problem.
I'm not advocating that we abolish prisons, only that we remove punishment and replace it with isolation unless and until the point of rehabilitation.
Agreed
Me either unfortunately, but I still care about it even if I don't have a solution.
Audie
Veteran Member
Only you can settle whether it's ethical in
your view.
When I said " everything is conditional"
I could have said it depends om infinite what- ifa
that i consider pointless.
Agreed, but I find it helpful to make an informed opinion
Well if nobody forces governments to legislate and enforce those conditions then they won't exist in reality, so I believe there is a point to having them ironed out accordingly
What would "isolation" mean as you propose?
We can advocate.
Better'n nuthin.
Prison without the solitary confinement for striking seems like a good start in my view.
True
I consider solitary confinement to be a human rights violation.Prison without the solitary confinement for striking seems like a good start in my view.
True
I think one of the problems we face in the U.S. is that there are too many people locked up to begin with. I was looking up some stats and found this site: Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie 2024
Assuming that they're all guilty (which is questionable, but nevermind), it does make one wonder how we, as a society, end up producing so many offenders to begin with.
I also think we could chip away at some of these numbers by ending the "war on drugs." Violent offenders should remain locked up, but perhaps other arrangements could be made for non-violent offenders.
Assuming that they're all guilty (which is questionable, but nevermind), it does make one wonder how we, as a society, end up producing so many offenders to begin with.
I also think we could chip away at some of these numbers by ending the "war on drugs." Violent offenders should remain locked up, but perhaps other arrangements could be made for non-violent offenders.