Is Christ superior to other Prophets/Founders

[CG Didymus]

This is hypothetical. Everyone needs The Saviour Jesus Christ in order to enter heaven. False religions lead to the other eternal destination.

Well, Baha'is have to deal with sin differently. I don't think they believe that people are born with some inherited sin or anything that would already put them in trouble and in need of Jesus to pay the penalty for their sins. And... I don't think they believe in a literal hell or Satan. I think in their version of the afterlife, a person is either closer to God or further from God depending on how good or bad they were. Belief in Jesus has nothing to do with it. A good Baha'i is going to be closer, then a so-so Christian. Which makes it a "works" kind of belief. So, to them, we each get judged by how well we applied the good things... the love, the humility, the kindness etc. If we were greedy, uncaring people, or even horribly evil... we go to the spirit world with a great handicap. But, I think, they believe that all souls still can improve and draw closer to God even in that spirit world. But who knows, maybe one of them can clarify their beliefs.

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'is say they regard all prophets as equal. But when we look closer this doesn't appear to be true. Baha'is believe that only they understand their Messenger correctly (other religions corrupted God's message) and only their Messenger understands all other Messengers and scriptures correctly. This reinterpretation of others and belief in superiority is not much different from Christianity.

Christians reinterpreted only the Jewish prophets. At least they admit that messengers (originators) of other (non-Jewish) religions had their own teaching that is different despite some common ground.

PS: Nice to see you're still here.

This is exactly the impression I got. They say things like... "Yes, they are all true, but... they've all gotten corrupted... Their teachings are outdated. And they've taken symbolic things and made them literal. But, we still believe that their original message was true. And now Baha'u'llah has come to bring the new teachings for today that will bring peace and unity to the whole world."

That's just a nice way of saying, "Your religion no longer works. Ours is here to replace it."

 

[CG Didymus]

This question to me has been a huge cause of strife, disunity and even war. All the great Teachers/Prophets (Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna etc) in history taught spirituality.

About this. Krishna was supposedly a chariot driver in a war. And God sent the children of Israel into the land of Canaan to kill and conquer them... and in some cities, ordered the killing of woman and children.

 

[CG Didymus]

IMO, the Flood narrative is allegorical, not to be taken at the literal level. IOW, it's the message that counts.

Here's where I agree with Baha'is, Atheists and any others that don't believe that some of the Bible stories are literally true. I think those stories were myths and legends meant to teach the people something.

Then you’re disavowing God’s Word and on shaky ground.

But what was that something the stories were trying to teach? Do evil and God will destroy you? If you listen to God, he will spare you? But where I do agree with those Christians that take the stories literally is... That's what it says happened. If it's not literally true, what real good is it?

If the stories are true, then a religion like the Baha'i Faith isn't true, since they make them symbolic or allegorical. But, if the Baha'is are right, then literal-believing Christians are wrong. But to me, it's even worse... If the Bible is wrong.... then it is not the literal, infallible, inerrant Word of God. It makes Christianity and Judaism just a couple of religions that based their beliefs on fictional stories that they believed were true. Yes, it is shaky ground. There are good reasons to believe just about any religion, and good reasons not to believe any of them.

 

[CG Didymus]

Never met an Ahmadiyya I didn't like.

Isn't that ironic. I guess if by their fruits you will know them, then their prophet must be true. Or, does it matter? As long as the people believe it and actually live up to and follow the teachings.

 

[Firenze]

It is humanly impossible to invent the Bible as it is known today, without God instructing it’s authors over 1400 years, proven by archaeology etc., then the church fathers. The story is too elaborate and intricate for the human mind to invent and so must be true. This is what sets it apart from all religious texts.

Nonsense. You are confusing elaborate and intricate with contradictory and irrational. The NT is a known fraud. Your gospel authors, knowing full well Jesus did not fulfill actual Messianic prophesy (the reason the Jews - the undisputed experts on the subject - rejected him), but lied about it anyway. So here you are, one of 2 billion credulous victims of this invented, multi trillion dollar hoax.

 

[Apostle John]

Well, Baha'is have to deal with sin differently. I don't think they believe that people are born with some inherited sin or anything that would already put them in trouble and in need of Jesus to pay the penalty for their sins. And... I don't think they believe in a literal hell or Satan. I think in their version of the afterlife, a person is either closer to God or further from God depending on how good or bad they were. Belief in Jesus has nothing to do with it. A good Baha'i is going to be closer, then a so-so Christian. Which makes it a "works" kind of belief. So, to them, we each get judged by how well we applied the good things... the love, the humility, the kindness etc. If we were greedy, uncaring people, or even horribly evil... we go to the spirit world with a great handicap. But, I think, they believe that all souls still can improve and draw closer to God even in that spirit world. But who knows, maybe one of them can clarify their beliefs.

Thanks to God I don’t have to go through the inner turmoil of guessing and picking the right way. Satan has left His mark on all the false religions. I’m inclined to believe He had your “Bab” under His thumb, same as other religions. He would have informed the eastern religions about avicii but not heaven.

“I am the way the truth and the life”- The Lord Jesus. The only way to heaven.

 

[Pete in Panama]

But you deny Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyyas to be a Messiah. He too was sent by Allah. What criteria you use to accept Bahaollah and reject Mirza Ghulam Ahmad? He too was of Mirza lineage.

From the way I found myself reaching for my chapstick I'm getting the impression that this is some kind of really dry humor maybe?

 

[Pete in Panama]

This is exactly the impression I got. They say things like... "Yes, they are all true, but... they've all gotten corrupted... Their teachings are outdated. And they've taken symbolic things and made them literal. But, we still believe that their original message was true. And now Baha'u'llah has come to bring the new teachings for today that will bring peace and unity to the whole world."

That's just a nice way of saying, "Your religion no longer works. Ours is here to replace it."

We've got a problem in communication here.

It's my understanding that you couldn't possibly be saying that Jesus told the Jews that Judaism no longer works and Jesus' teachings have come to replace it. If I'm wrong we can go over some scriptures that make it clear that (for example) Mosaic Law was not abrogated but rather was fulfilled.

otoh if I'm right, please consider the possibility that this is an important and necessary point of view that many people all over the world share.

 

[lukethethird]

Oh I thought you meant the thread title. There’s no disproof of a worldwide flood less than 5000 years ago. All I’ve read anywhere is assumption, no hard evidence.

There would have to be proof of a flood in order to disprove it. What proof is there of a flood? Oh, there isn't any.

 

[CG Didymus]

We've got a problem in communication here.

It's my understanding that you couldn't possibly be saying that Jesus told the Jews that Judaism no longer works and Jesus' teachings have come to replace it. If I'm wrong we can go over some scriptures that make it clear that (for example) Mosaic Law was not abrogated but rather was fulfilled.

otoh if I'm right, please consider the possibility that this is an important and necessary point of view that many people all over the world share.

It's my understanding that the Baha'i Faith believes its laws and teachings have replaced all the other laws and teachings of all the other religions... That those laws were for a specific time and place, and with some of them, given to a specific people. If you want to call it "fulfilling" that's okay with me. But it don't seem much different than replacing or abrogating or doing away with.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The easiest thing for them to do to include Hinduism in the chain of true and revealed religions from the one true God, their God, is find a prophet/founder... Krishna was the closest they could find.

Bahaollah did not say anything about Hinduism or Buddhism. They were added to the list by his son and great grandson. Funny, Buddha, who said contemplation about creation and God can cause vexation and even madness. He termed them as 'acinteyya' (not to be pondered on).

 

[CG Didymus]

Bahaollah did not say anything about Hinduism or Buddhism. They were added to the list by his son and great grandson. Funny, Buddha, who said contemplation about creation and God can cause vexation and even madness. He termed them as 'acinteyya' (not to be pondered on).

That's what I thought, but I didn't want them to accuse me of misrepresenting them. But that is interesting the guy that is supposed to be Kalki and Maitreya doesn't let Hindus and Buddhists know about it? But things are different now. Now they have to find some way to make the connection. And I guess they are making a good enough connection to get some Hindus to join. I wonder how it's actually working?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Christ isn't a prophet or founder. Christ is a way of being based on a Divine revelation and a promise, delivered to us via the storied example of the life and death of Jesus of Nazareth. The revelation and promise will be apparent to anyone with eyes to see and a mind that's willing to use them.

The religions that happened as a result are their own entity and are only tangentially related to the revelation and promise of Christ.

Christ referred to Himself as a Prophet if you know your Bible. He said it Himself.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I believe God does not lie so finding a false concept by Krishna reveals that He is not an incarnation of God.

I agree God only teaches truth but I believe Krishna is a Manifestation of God like Christ.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Christ isn't a prophet or founder. Christ is a way of being based on a Divine revelation and a promise, delivered to us via the storied example of the life and death of Jesus of Nazareth. The revelation and promise will be apparent to anyone with eyes to see and a mind that's willing to use them.

The religions that happened as a result are their own entity and are only tangentially related to the revelation and promise of Christ.

Christ means "the anointed". The prophets and kings in the Bible were all christs. There is also the promise of The Christ - the definite and ultimate anointed... After Jesus Christ all are anointed who receive the Holy Spirit (according to Christianity).

 

[Pete in Panama]

It's my understanding that the Baha'i Faith believes its laws and teachings have replaced all the other laws and teachings of all the other religions... That those laws were for a specific time and place, and with some of them, given to a specific people. If you want to call it "fulfilling" that's okay with me. But it don't seem much different than replacing or abrogating or doing away with.

Would you say that the teachings of Jesus "replaced all the other laws and teachings of" Judaism? Do you feel that Christianity was "replacing or abrogating or doing away with" Judaism? If you do then we can go over a number of New Testament Biblical Passages that (imho) flat out contradicts that idea.

We're apparently going around in circles here. A number of times now I've asked you a key question concerning the Christ's relationship to Mosaic law and how we can understand Devine Revelation. You've avoided answering and instead repeated what I consider to be a flawed commentary that (imho) is derogatory to the Baha'is. If you're not interested in seriously considering this we can simply call it a day & part freinds.

 

[CG Didymus]

Would you say that the teachings of Jesus "replaced all the other laws and teachings of" Judaism? Do you feel that Christianity was "replacing or abrogating or doing away with" Judaism? If you do then we can go over a number of New Testament Biblical Passages that (imho) flat out contradicts that idea.

We're apparently going around in circles here. A number of times now I've asked you a key question concerning the Christ's relationship to Mosaic law and how we can understand Devine Revelation. You've avoided answering and instead repeated what I consider to be a flawed commentary that (imho) is derogatory to the Baha'is. If you're not interested in seriously considering this we can simply call it a day & part freinds.

Why are you bringing up Christianity and Judaism? It is from what Baha'is have said here on the forum that I got that... That each religion brings new laws, because the old laws no longer work.

Each Manifestation ushers in a new “dispensation” of religious teachings destined to guide humankind for many centuries. When circumstances warrant, a new Manifestation appears, reiterates God’s unchanging laws, and brings in new laws commensurate with humankind’s ability to implement those laws.​

 

[Pete in Panama]

Why are you bringing up Christianity and Judaism?

That has to do w/ my guess that you're a Christian and understand Christianity. I may be wrong but I've had very little luck at finding out your beliefs so I could know how to connect to you.

It is from what Baha'is have said here on the forum that I got that... That each religion brings new laws, because the old laws no longer work.

Each Manifestation ushers in a new “dispensation” of religious teachings destined to guide humankind for many centuries. When circumstances warrant, a new Manifestation appears, reiterates God’s unchanging laws, and brings in new laws commensurate with humankind’s ability to implement those laws.​

There are millions and millions of Baha'is and like most human religious activity it's very diverse. Lots of ways of looking at this. There is only one set of core teachings and it was to that end that I wanted to lead.

This whole dust up started back w/ your post#242 when you were saying some things about what you understood about Baha'i beliefs & my take was that the things you said were off the mark. That was my POV and you disagree & my thinking now is that you're happy w/ your beliefs & there's nothing that I could possibly say that could ever make any difference.

That's fine, it's been fun and thanks.

 

[Madmogwai]

I believe as God in the flesh He has the right to say that all authority has been given to Him.

Yes that’s all good for those that believe that.