Is Buddhist practice higher than Taoist practice?

[EverChanging]

I came across a claim that Buddhist practice is higher than Taoist practice: that is, ideal Taoist practice leads to the 33rd heaven, but ideal Buddhist practice leads to Nirvana, and this is why in many Taoist temples the Buddha images take center stage. That all sounded like BS to me. But I don't particularly want to believe it because while I'm inspired by Buddhism I find aspects of Taoist philosophy very similar and feel in some ways I'd more easily be able to integrate Taoist insights and practices than Buddhist, at least from some of the practical advice I've read about in "philosophical Taoism."

 

[Brendan Crumrine]

I'm confused on what you are asking. Where does this form of Taoist-Buddhist hybridization get practiced? As far as I know for spiritual canon most Taoist just go to hell to be purged in fire and be reincarnated (if you're a spiritualist) but I have very little knowledge of folk-Chinese Taoism. Other than that Chuang Tzu mentions a story where in Confucious runs into a poor man picking rice left in the field and they discuss the unknowable nature of death. This is much better for reference. We cannot know death as no one has come back to tell us is Chuang Tzu's implication.

 

[Baladas]

I came across a claim that Buddhist practice is higher than Taoist practice: that is, ideal Taoist practice leads to the 33rd heaven, but ideal Buddhist practice leads to Nirvana, and this is why in many Taoist temples the Buddha images take center stage. That all sounded like BS to me. But I don't particularly want to believe it because while I'm inspired by Buddhism I find aspects of Taoist philosophy very similar and feel in some ways I'd more easily be able to integrate Taoist insights and practices than Buddhist, at least from some of the practical advice I've read about in "philosophical Taoism."

Each school and tradition has it's own way of understanding other traditions.
Look to each tradition to decide for yourself. That would be my recommendation.

Taoism is my path, by virtue of it's resonating with me at a deeply profound level.
I follow my own nature.

Whether it is higher or lower than another, I cannot objectively say.
I like it myself, and I personally prefer it to Buddhism.
Who can know what comes after death?

I did find it much easier to integrate into my daily life than most traditions in general.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I came across a claim that Buddhist practice is higher than Taoist practice:

No, just different.

 

[EtuMalku]

Blues great Buddy Guy was asked what he thought of being called the greatest blues guitarist, to which he replied; "there is no 'greatest', you simply become one of the greats"

 

[crossfire]

I came across a claim that Buddhist practice is higher than Taoist practice: that is, ideal Taoist practice leads to the 33rd heaven, but ideal Buddhist practice leads to Nirvana, and this is why in many Taoist temples the Buddha images take center stage. That all sounded like BS to me. But I don't particularly want to believe it because while I'm inspired by Buddhism I find aspects of Taoist philosophy very similar and feel in some ways I'd more easily be able to integrate Taoist insights and practices than Buddhist, at least from some of the practical advice I've read about in "philosophical Taoism."

Are you sure it's not Ho Tei as a symbol of abundance?

 

[Straw Dog]

It's all relative to particular living conditions and circumstances. In that sense, it is also very real.

Personally, I tend to focus more on energy flow and instantaneous transformation. I practice just sitting in mindfulness part-time, but then feel a need to exercise my imagination in productive and healthy ways. Many Taoist meditations do tend to utilize more imagination and visualization. I don't identify with any specific -ism exclusively, but rather draw from MMA (mixed meditative arts).

 

[mystic64]

Interesting OP. Nirvana (enlightenment) versus 33 levels of Heaven? So what in the heck do the Taoists that EverChanging's information is coming from mean by "Heaven"? My goal has always been to go beyond Heaven. Christianity has seven levels in Heaven and then from there you graduate into somewhere else. In Buddhism you just graduate into somewhere else and that somewhere else is beyond Heaven. 33 levels to Heaven? Seems to me that that would be a lot extra of work . And I don't know, there seems to be a lot of different versions of Buddhism and there are a lot of different versions of Taoism. And a lot of the versions of Taoism are a mixture of Buddhism and Confuciousism. And historically speaking, none of the three have anything to do with God or the gods, and Heaven is generally a reward that one receives for good action from God or the gods. So therefore the 33 levels of Heaven would have to be 33 levels of "enlightenment (some kind of levels of understanding knowledge)" and that brings up the question, "How many levels of Nirvana (enlightenment) are there?" I know from experience that when you step through the third Dharma Seal that you basically step into Nirvana (enlightenment) preschool.

So that brings us back to, "So EverChanging, do you have any idea what they mean by "Heaven" ? Because ultimately in Taoism there isn't any Heaven, there is just walking in the "way (tao)".

 

[chevron1]

I came across a claim that Buddhist practice is higher than Taoist practice: that is, ideal Taoist practice leads to the 33rd heaven, but ideal Buddhist practice leads to Nirvana... while I'm inspired by Buddhism I find aspects of Taoist philosophy very similar and feel in some ways I'd more easily be able to integrate Taoist insights and practices than Buddhist...

the current resurrection of taoism, which had been predicted for many years to be dying and irrelevant in the face of western-preferred religions like buddhism, will bring new revitalized religion unlike what you see today.. it's a very exciting time for taoists. the new taoism remains mostly hidden for now. evidence of the revivial can be seen on taocurrents.org, my site on metaphysical taoism. the new taoism may be like nothing you have ever seen before. it comes with new mystical practice based on the old scriptures that brings new ideas closely associated with science and trains you to investigate the hidden world, including the spirit world, with new tools that can take a lifetime to refine.

the new taoism is being developed in china or what i call china world, which includes other countries in asia that have a taoist presence. my masters live somewhere in the orient, and some of them belong to lineages of china's royal houses. of course, they are ordinary citizens today, but they still practice the state religions that conferred the Mandate of Heaven to each ruling administration. in china world, they almost cannot be seen. they could seem like the religious taoists of the established sects or even a feng shui master, who spends time aligning rooms and redirecting energy flows. what they really practice in new taoism, they rarely teach. watch china world carefully and one day, you may witness the birth of new religion from old religion.

 

[Kemble]

I came across a claim that Buddhist practice is higher than Taoist practice: that is, ideal Taoist practice leads to the 33rd heaven, but ideal Buddhist practice leads to Nirvana... while I'm inspired by Buddhism I find aspects of Taoist philosophy very similar and feel in some ways I'd more easily be able to integrate Taoist insights and practices than Buddhist...

Two different religious grammars. Transposing nirvana into Taoism and vice versa is wrong headed. A main contention between Taoists and Buddhists in early China was that the Buddhists elevated mind with disregard to the body. Buddhists saw the body only in light of the defilements. Taoists sought physical/energetic cultivation in balance with quiet sitting practice. However, that distinction fell apart when the Tibetan tradition inherited rigorous psychophysical practices from medieval Indian Buddhist yoga. You see this in the breathing, posture, and energy practices of the Six Yogas of Naropa. One Tibetan yogi in the 13th century even went as far as relegating the body -- not the mind as in traditional Buddhist scripture -- to the supreme goal of the Buddhist path (something that would have made the Taoists fiesta in their graves).

 

[chevron1]

Two different religious grammars. Transposing nirvana into Taoism and vice versa is wrong headed.

historically, it has been done. here is a map of taoist heavens with nirvana samsara included.

 

[Kemble]

Chevron:

Source?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I came across a claim that Buddhist practice is higher than Taoist practice: that is, ideal Taoist practice leads to the 33rd heaven, but ideal Buddhist practice leads to Nirvana, and this is why in many Taoist temples the Buddha images take center stage. That all sounded like BS to me. But I don't particularly want to believe it because while I'm inspired by Buddhism I find aspects of Taoist philosophy very similar and feel in some ways I'd more easily be able to integrate Taoist insights and practices than Buddhist, at least from some of the practical advice I've read about in "philosophical Taoism."

In light Chan is a mix of the two tells me arguments like this are akin with a ×$@% wagging contest. Think of as Dharma combat.

I'll have to look up some exchanges. Been awhile.

 

[chevron1]

Chevron:

Source?

Here's one source:

In the [Wondrous Scripture on the Salvation of Life (度命妙經 Du Ming Miao Jing)] and other later standard texts, such as the [Seven Tablets (雲笈七籤 Yun Ji Qi Qian)], on the other hand, a system inspired by Buddhism has taken over: a total of 36 heavens, with Daluo and the three Clarities at the top, followed by four so-called Brahma heavens for true believers. The bottom 28, then, were divided into the worlds of formlessness (4), form (18) and desire (6), imitating the Buddhist model of the Three Worlds. Here we have the 33 heavens in the [Great Treatise on the Perfection of Wisdom (大智度論 da zhi du lun, T. 1509)] and 36 heavens in the Jushe lu (俱舍論 T. 1558).

Kohn, Livia, Daoism Handbook, Leiden: Koninklijke Brill, c. 2000, p. 247.

 

[Kemble]

Thanks, chevron. Here is an interesting article:

http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/30/phagpas-arrow/

 

[chevron1]

Thanks, chevron. Here is an interesting article:

http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/30/phagpas-arrow/

thanks for the link. phagpa's conversion to buddhism is typical of the power of buddhism in china. it is because of buddhism that many feel china's imperial house lost to foreigners who took advantage of a country weakened by buddhist teaching that sowed the seeds of pacifism even as its enemies who preached compassion prepared for invasion. that is why china has never forgiven taoists for having abandoned their original faith. quanzhen it is said no longer resembled the old religion by the time of kublai khan.

 

[Kemble]

I don't understand. Phagpa was neither Chinese nor Daoist.

 

[chevron1]

I don't understand. Phagpa was neither Chinese nor Daoist.

phagpa was the best taoist of non-chinese kind.

phagpa was a mongol, which is the same as chinese during kublai khan's rule. he was a taoist because he challenged taoism in its native land without reason.

 

[Kemble]

Neither was he a Mongol. Mongols were at war with the Hans at that time. Phagpa was Tibetan and a tantric Buddhist all his life. I'm sorry, Chevron. I've just never encountered ethnic and religious definitions like yours before. I think we're talking past each other because you never read the link you are responding to.

 

[chevron1]

Neither was he a Mongol. Mongols were at war with the Hans at that time. Phagpa was Tibetan and a tantric Buddhist all his life. I'm sorry, Chevron. I've just never encountered ethnic and religious definitions like yours before. I think we're talking past each other because you never read the link you are responding to.

i did read but i don't quess you understand how i read.