Is Atheism the Easier Position?

[Trailblazer]

Ah, just an allegorical teaching moment. If it's allegory do all Bahais interpret it the same way? Where have other Bahais commented on it?

If you don't know, then you are just stating your opinion.

I don't know how other Bahais interpret those verses so I am just presenting my interpretation. Why would it matter how other Baha'is interpret the verses? As I recall a Baha'i friend had another interpretation and it was just as valid. Baha'u'llah wrote that verses can name many meanings.

Please clarify. Did God create everything in six days? Was the Flood Real? Did Australia zip across the Pacific after the ark unloaded the kangaroos on Mt. Ararat?

Are you answers the official Bahai teachings or more of your opinions?

No, Bahais do not believe that God created everything in six days because that is contrary to science and we believe in science. Baha'is believe in evolution so obviously everything could not have been created in six days. These are official Baha'i teachings, not my opinion.

There is no official position on the flood, but below is what Baha'u'llah wrote about it and you can make of it whatever you like.

“Mention hath been made in certain books of a deluge which caused all that existed on earth, historical records as well as other things, to be destroyed. Moreover, many cataclysms have occurred which have effaced the traces of many events. Furthermore, among existing historical records differences are to be found, and each of the various peoples of the world hath its own account of the age of the earth and of its history. Some trace their history as far back as eight thousand years, others as far as twelve thousand years. To any one that hath read the book of Jük it is clear and evident how much the accounts given by the various books have differed.

Please God thou wilt turn thine eyes towards the Most Great Revelation, and entirely disregard these conflicting tales and traditions.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 174-175

 

[Trailblazer]

You keep forgetting that it was you who mockingly asked for comparisons.

I did? I do not recall asking for comparisons. Can you quote me asking for those?

Mormons believe their stuff for the exact same reason Bahais believe their stuff. Bahais believe their stuff for the exact same reason Mormons believe their stuff. And both groups insist that their stuff is right and the other guy's stuff is wrong.
Ditto Christians; Hindus; Moonies; JW; etc Ad nauseam.

Why do you keep comparing the Baha'i Faith to other religions?
How does what people believe and why they believe it have any bearing on what is actually true?
Please answer that question because I need to understand your line of reasoning.

 

[Trailblazer]

So was Joseph Smith and all the others I listed (at least that's what their followers believe).

It's really funny that all claim to be right. Right?

Why do you keep comparing the Baha'i Faith with other religions? Why does it matter what they believe? What does that prove? How does that have any bearing on whether the Baha'i Faith is true or not, which is really all that matters?

Of course they all claim to be right, because they believe they are right but that does not mean they are all right or they are all wrong. One of them might be right and the others wrong or more than one of them might be right and the others wrong, or all of them could be wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

With all due respect, there are many who consider Bahaia a cult religion.

Nobody with any kind of education considers the Baha'i Faith a cult. The Baha'i Faith is included on all reputable websites as a religion.

18 Major World Religions — Study Starters

Religion is a vast subject. Actually, that’s an understatement. Religion touches on everything about the world around us, from the explanations we seek for the creation of the universe and our purpose within to the higher power behind these things to the way we behave, treat one another, and interact with society to the values, laws, and beliefs that govern us. Whether you are a person of faith, a skeptic, or something in between, the concepts of spirituality, organized religion, and morality effect us all. They produce cultural constructs, power dynamics, and historical narratives. They can also produce philosophical innovation, ethical reform, and the advancement of social justice.

Religion Table of Contents

• Atheism/Agnosticism
• Bahá’í
• Buddhism
• Christianity
• Confucianism
• Druze
• Gnosticism
• Hinduism
• Islam
• Jainism
• Judaism
• Rastafarianism
• Shinto
• Sikhism
• Zoroastrianism
• Traditional African Religions
• African Diaspora Religions
• Indigenous American Religions

18 Major World Religions — Study Starters - TheBestSchools.org

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Featured religions and beliefs

• Atheism
  Atheists are people who believe that god or gods are man-made constructs.
  
  
• Baha'i
  One of the youngest of the world's major religions.
  
  
• Buddhism
  A way of living based on the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama.

• Candomblé
  A religion based on African beliefs, originating in Brazil.
  
  
• Christianity
  The world's biggest faith, based on the teaching of Jesus Christ.
  
  
• Hinduism
  A group of faiths rooted in the religious ideas of India.

• Islam
  Revealed in its final form by the Prophet Muhammad.
  
  
• Jainism
  An ancient philosophy and ethical teaching that originated in India.
  
  
• Jehovah's Witnesses
  A Christian-based evangelistic religious movement.

• Judaism
  Based around the Jewish people's covenant relationship with God.
  
  
• Mormonism
  The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  
  
• Paganism
  Contemporary religions usually based on reverence for nature.

• Rastafari
  A young religion founded in Jamaica in the 1930s.
  
  
• Santeria
  Afro-Caribbean syncretic religion originating in Cuba.
  
  
• Shinto
  Japanese folk tradition and ritual with no founder or single sacred scripture.

• Sikhism
  The religion founded by Guru Nanak in India in the 15th Century CE.
  
  
• Spiritualism
  Spiritualists believe in communication with the spirits of people who have died.
  
  
• Taoism
  An ancient tradition of philosophy and belief rooted in Chinese worldview.

• Unitarianism
  An open-minded and individualistic approach to religion.
  
  
• Zoroastrianism
  One of the oldest monotheistic faiths, founded by the Prophet Zoroaster.

BBC - Religion: Religions

Moroni was an angel speaking for God. He spoke to Smith. Smith told others about the conversations. Just what do you think a messenger is?

Please give me one good reason why I should believe that, just because "he said so?"
Anyone can say that God spoke to them.

The reason I don't believe it is because it is contradicted by my Baha'i beliefs. Recently I saw where Smith said that Jesus was God, and I already know that is not true so that means he is not speaking for God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Protestanism is a sect of Christianity. Your Point?

My point was that it does not matter if we documentation of sects such as Mormonism, JWs, and Protestants, we were talking about the documentation of the original religion, Christianity.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't. I evaluate the writings of Bahai on their own.

The writings of Balulah are gibberish. I can quote two or three paragraphs of his writings and ask you to explain what it means. If I did that with five Bahais, I'd get five very different interpretations.

Even his prison writings need interpretation.

The writings of Shogi Effendi speaking about Balulah are made up stuff. The two men had no contact with each other.

So? Gibberish and third-hand information is gibberish and third-hand information regardless of where it is housed. I'm sure the writings of Sung Myung Moon are also carefully preserved as are those of Smith and even Applewhite.

Just because you believe it is gibberish that does not mean it actually is gibberish.

It does not matter how it sounds to you, Baha'u'llah was either a Messenger of God or not. That is all that matters.

The writings of Shoghi Effendi speaking about Baha'u'llah are not made up but I m not going around that block again..

 

[MonkeyFire]

Ah, yes purgatory. Heaven and Hell weren't good enough. You guys had to invent an in-between also. Well, when you are dead, you are dead. When I am dead, I am dead. I gave up silly childhood superstitions when I was ten.



I do that every night and sleep in it quite well.




How, in your considered opinion, did I "offend the first amendment"?

I don’t see death as the right thing, unless my body is created from samsara.

 

[ratiocinator]

Time is natural. Therefore an entity existing outside of time is not natural.

Forests are natural. therefore an entity existing outside of a forest is not natural. Of course there are some logical problems with the concept of a thinking being existing outside of time.

An omnipotent entity that can create a universe in six days is not natural.

An omnipotent entity that created our universe last Thurssday is not natural.

By what definition of 'natural'? What about the simulation hypothesis, not that I take it seriously, but you see the point?

An omnipotent entity that could make a rock too heavy for it to lift is not possible in nature. An omnipotent entity that could not lift a rock it created is not possible in nature.

Now you've run into logical contradictions, which are something else.

If something is not possible in nature, it is supernatural.

How do you know what is possible in nature? Are you claiming omniscience?

What it adds to the discussion is the first level of skepticism.

I find I have no need for it to do that. I just find the term pretty useless largely because of the last point above.

 

[ecco]

Of course there are some logical problems with the concept of a thinking being existing outside of time.

Let that be your first clue to recognizing that such a concept invokes to supernatural.

By what definition of 'natural'? What about the simulation hypothesis, not that I take it seriously, but you see the point?

No. Let dictionaries be your guide.

Now you've run into logical contradictions, which are something else.

Let that be your next clue to recognizing that such a concept invokes to supernatural.

How do you know what is possible in nature? Are you claiming omniscience?

I know that an entity existing outside of time is not natural.

 

[ratiocinator]

Let that be your first clue to recognizing that such a concept invokes to supernatural.

Why would I need a clue before recognising contradictions?

Let dictionaries be your guide.

Simply doesn't help. For example; "attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature". Scientific understanding is not fixed and nobody knows all of the "laws of nature", otherwise all science would have stopped.

I know that an entity existing outside of time is not natural.

How?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No ideology to defend.
No God to logically justify.
Nothing to prove.

Are you an atheist because it allows you to attack the beliefs of others with no obligation to defend beliefs which you lack?

That makes so little sense I have problems taking the question seriously.

Ask yourself why you don't believe in fairies, Thor, Ra, bigfoot and alien abductions.
Take the common denominator between all of those.
That's the reason why I don't believe in any supernatural things.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Nope, im an atheist because i don't believe gods exists. I have often been attacked for holding that position. As have atheist for thousands of years.

Atheism is lack of belief in gods. I don't know if metaphysical gods exist.

 

[lukethethird]

No ideology to defend.
No God to logically justify.
Nothing to prove.

Are you an atheist because it allows you to attack the beliefs of others with no obligation to defend beliefs which you lack?

I don't attack so much as I take little pot shots here and there.