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Iran & USA information wars

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Here's an article stating that Iran is behind certain channels that it uses to fight against USA. Says that there are seven satellite stations run by Iran's totalitarian government: Al-alam, Al-kawthar, Sahar TV, Press TV, HispanTV, ifilm TV.

"...there are both offensive and defensive elements within IRIB’s mission: promoting Iran’s worldview and exporting the revolutionary ideology as well as defending the Islamic Republic from what it sees as “hostile” Western media organizations like Voice of America and the British Broadcasting Corporation..." --The United States’ Soft War with Iran

Al Jazeera notes the USA has seized some sites used for propaganda:

(The Houtis are an alliance active in the fighting in Yemen.)

"...The Houthi movement attracts its Zaidi-Shia followers in Yemen by promoting regional political-religious issues in its media, including the overarching U.S.–Israeli conspiracy theory and Arab "collusion"...." --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movement​

One of our forum members accuses USA and Britain (in the Shia dir) of conspiring to throw mud upon Shia Islam -- see forum link American Regime seizes tens of Shia Muslim websites

As you can see, relations between Iran and USA are going to continue to be heated for some time, and the propaganda against the USA will continue as long as we are involved in Yemen (and other areas that most of us don't understand why we are militarily involved).

Should we care about these totalitarian promoting satellite stations? Should I believe that the US is wrong to take them down?
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Should we care about these totalitarian promoting satellite stations? Should I believe that the US is wrong to take them down?
Personally I think as long as they are not promoting hate speech (which I note according to the Al-Jazeera article that PressTV has been accused of), they should not be taken down. However if websites are doing business with the Iranian government this could still fall under sanctions.
In my opinion
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Its also interesting that the forum member referred to writes in their OP that Muslims and non-Muslims should, "learn other side of the story and then judge fairly" but posts this in a DIR where only the Shia side of the story can be posted. Ah the hypocrisy, can't you smell it from a mile away?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Here's an article stating that Iran is behind certain channels that it uses to fight against USA. Says that there are seven satellite stations run by Iran's totalitarian government: Al-alam, Al-kawthar, Sahar TV, Press TV, HispanTV, ifilm TV.

"...there are both offensive and defensive elements within IRIB’s mission: promoting Iran’s worldview and exporting the revolutionary ideology as well as defending the Islamic Republic from what it sees as “hostile” Western media organizations like Voice of America and the British Broadcasting Corporation..." --The United States’ Soft War with Iran

Al Jazeera notes the USA has seized some sites used for propaganda:

(The Houtis are an alliance active in the fighting in Yemen.)

"...The Houthi movement attracts its Zaidi-Shia followers in Yemen by promoting regional political-religious issues in its media, including the overarching U.S.–Israeli conspiracy theory and Arab "collusion"...." --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movement​

One of our forum members accuses USA and Britain (in the Shia dir) of conspiring to throw mud upon Shia Islam -- see forum link American Regime seizes tens of Shia Muslim websites

As you can see, relations between Iran and USA are going to continue to be heated for some time, and the propaganda against the USA will continue as long as we are involved in Yemen (and other areas that most of us don't understand why we are militarily involved).

Should we care about these totalitarian promoting satellite stations? Should I believe that the US is wrong to take them down?

Well, this just sort of came out of nowhere. Here is the DOJ's statement on the matter: United States Seizes Websites Used by the Iranian Islamic Radio and Television Union and Kata’ib Hizballah | OPA | Department of Justice

United States Seizes Websites Used by the Iranian Islamic Radio and Television Union and Kata’ib Hizballah
Today, pursuant to court orders, the United States seized 33 websites used by the Iranian Islamic Radio and Television Union (IRTVU) and three websites operated by Kata’ib Hizballah (KH), in violation of U.S. sanctions.

On Oct. 22, 2020, the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated IRTVU as a Specially Designated National (SDN) for being owned or controlled by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Quds Force (IRGC). SDNs are prohibited from obtaining services, including website and domain services, in the United States without an OFAC license. OFAC’s announcement explained that components of the government of Iran, to include IRTVU and others like it, disguised as news organizations or media outlets, targeted the United States with disinformation campaigns and malign influence operations. Thirty-three of the websites seized today were operated by IRTVU. The 33 domains are owned by a United States company. IRTVU did not obtain a license from OFAC prior to utilizing the domain names.

Three additional websites seized today were operated by KH. On July 2, 2009, OFAC designated KH an SDN, and the Department of State designated KH a Foreign Terrorist Organization. The announcements described KH as an Iraqi terrorist organization that committed, directed, supported or posed a significant risk of committing acts of violence against Coalition and Iraqi Security Forces. OFAC further explained that the IRGC provides lethal support to KH and other Iraqi Shia militia groups who target and kill Coalition and Iraqi Security Forces. The three domains operated by KH were owned by a United States company. KH did not obtain a license from OFAC prior to utilizing the domain names.

These website seizures were investigated by the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security, Office of Export Enforcement and the FBI. The National Security Division’s Counterintelligence and Export Control Section prosecuted the seizure.

Assistant Attorney General John C. Demers for the Justice Department’s National Security Division; Special Agent in Charge J.C. (Chris) Hacker, of the FBI’s Atlanta Field Office; and Special Agent in Charge Ariel Joshua Leinwand, of the Bureau of Industry and Security, Office of Export Enforcement’s Atlanta Office, made the announcement.

The National Security Division’s Counterintelligence and Export Control Section is investigating this matter in coordination with the FBI’s Counterterrorism Division and Atlanta Field Office.

For the past several years, government officials, politicians, and pundits have railed against the Russians - Russian hackers, Russian collusion, etc. They never uttered a peep about any of these Iranian websites...until now.

Makes one wonder if there's anyone in our government who even knows what they're doing.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, this just sort of came out of nowhere. Here is the DOJ's statement on the matter: United States Seizes Websites Used by the Iranian Islamic Radio and Television Union and Kata’ib Hizballah | OPA | Department of Justice



For the past several years, government officials, politicians, and pundits have railed against the Russians - Russian hackers, Russian collusion, etc. They never uttered a peep about any of these Iranian websites...until now.

Makes one wonder if there's anyone in our government who even knows what they're doing.
Thanks for that link. In that Department of Justice release it says:
"...The announcements described KH as an Iraqi terrorist organization that committed, directed, supported or posed a significant risk of committing acts of violence against Coalition and Iraqi Security Forces. OFAC further explained that the IRGC provides lethal support to KH and other Iraqi Shia militia groups who target and kill Coalition and Iraqi Security Forces..."​
It sounds legit, at least in the text. It says the Iranian Islamic Radio and Television Union did not get an OFAC license for the 30 sites that were shut down and that the Kata’ib Hizballah (KH) had its 3 sites shut down for being a lethal terrorist organization that killed Iraqis.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Thanks for that link. In that Department of Justice release it says:
"...The announcements described KH as an Iraqi terrorist organization that committed, directed, supported or posed a significant risk of committing acts of violence against Coalition and Iraqi Security Forces. OFAC further explained that the IRGC provides lethal support to KH and other Iraqi Shia militia groups who target and kill Coalition and Iraqi Security Forces..."​
It sounds legit, at least in the text. It says the Iranian Islamic Radio and Television Union did not get an OFAC license for the 30 sites that were shut down and that the Kata’ib Hizballah (KH) had its 3 sites shut down for being a lethal terrorist organization that killed Iraqis.

Yes, at least from the press release, they appear to have the authority to take the websites down.

I'm not sure that it makes any of us any safer, especially in light of recent cyber-attacks and ransomware demands. That appears to be the more immediate national security threat, far more so than any of these websites seemed to pose. So, I would question their priorities.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Sounds like the usa has stupidly taken the sunni side in the sunni/shiite conflict
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Here's another view of the situation:

Yemen and Somalia control the Gulf of Aden, and they are on the way to the entrance to the Red Sea, which touches Eritrea, Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia and Egypt and also several Middle Eastern countries by waterways. Yemen shares a long border with Saudi Arabia, and our country takes the side of the Saudis in the Yemeni conflict. Saudi Arabia has political control of the entrances to and exits from Mecca which is near the Red Sea, and Saudi Arabia is a USA ally. There are numerous reasons to take their side.

Our position on Yemen is that we don't like piracy from Somalia, and we'd also not want to see piracy spread to Yemen. This puts us on the side of the Saudis, again. It means we want to see a strong government (As does Saudi Arabia) in each of these countries that can reign in piracy which plagues international trade. We also seek stable countries that don't breed tiny militias that start up groups like Isis.

What does Iran want? Iran is currently under sanctions and does not greatly benefit from strong trade through the Red Sea. Iran borders the Persian Gulf, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan. It, instead, benefits from trade that is not sanctioned such as illegal trade or invisible trade. It has no economic motivation to see stability in Yemen or Somalia. Its strongest military neighbors are Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and it has strained relations with both. That is not our doing. That is not USA's fault.

Does this clarify things?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Here's another view of the situation:

Yemen and Somalia control the Gulf of Aden, and they are on the way to the entrance to the Red Sea, which touches Eritrea, Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia and Egypt and also several Middle Eastern countries by waterways. Yemen shares a long border with Saudi Arabia, and our country takes the side of the Saudis in the Yemeni conflict. Saudi Arabia has political control of the entrances to and exits from Mecca which is near the Red Sea, and Saudi Arabia is a USA ally. There are numerous reasons to take their side.

Our position on Yemen is that we don't like piracy from Somalia, and we'd also not want to see piracy spread to Yemen. This puts us on the side of the Saudis, again. It means we want to see a strong government (As does Saudi Arabia) in each of these countries that can reign in piracy which plagues international trade. We also seek stable countries that don't breed tiny militias that start up groups like Isis.

What does Iran want? Iran is currently under sanctions and does not greatly benefit from strong trade through the Red Sea. Iran borders the Persian Gulf, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan. It, instead, benefits from trade that is not sanctioned such as illegal trade or invisible trade. It has no economic motivation to see stability in Yemen or Somalia. Its strongest military neighbors are Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and it has strained relations with both. That is not our doing. That is not USA's fault.

Does this clarify things?
USA is directly responsible for creating circumstances
for what Iran wants, in particular military capability to
ward off further attacks by Ameristan, Israel, Saudis,
Russia, France, England, Iraq, etc.
We have great influence over what others want.
Time to use that for good instead of evil.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
USA is directly responsible for creating circumstances
for what Iran wants, in particular military capability to
ward off further attacks by Ameristan, Israel, Saudis,
Russia, France, England, Iraq, etc.
We have great influence over what others want.
Time to use that for good instead of evil.
I agree with you on that, although I also think that Iran in claiming to be super spiritual has a responsibility to be super spiritual.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Here's another view of the situation:

Yemen and Somalia control the Gulf of Aden, and they are on the way to the entrance to the Red Sea, which touches Eritrea, Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia and Egypt and also several Middle Eastern countries by waterways. Yemen shares a long border with Saudi Arabia, and our country takes the side of the Saudis in the Yemeni conflict. Saudi Arabia has political control of the entrances to and exits from Mecca which is near the Red Sea, and Saudi Arabia is a USA ally. There are numerous reasons to take their side.

Our position on Yemen is that we don't like piracy from Somalia, and we'd also not want to see piracy spread to Yemen. This puts us on the side of the Saudis, again. It means we want to see a strong government (As does Saudi Arabia) in each of these countries that can reign in piracy which plagues international trade. We also seek stable countries that don't breed tiny militias that start up groups like Isis.

What does Iran want? Iran is currently under sanctions and does not greatly benefit from strong trade through the Red Sea. Iran borders the Persian Gulf, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan. It, instead, benefits from trade that is not sanctioned such as illegal trade or invisible trade. It has no economic motivation to see stability in Yemen or Somalia. Its strongest military neighbors are Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and it has strained relations with both. That is not our doing. That is not USA's fault.

Does this clarify things?

I don't think the U.S. can be blamed for all of the problems of the Middle East. Many of the problems have their roots long before the U.S. even existed.

Heck, if anyone is to blame for the situation, it's the Ottoman Turks for not agreeing to cheaper pepper back in the 15th century. If not for that, then there would have been no age of exploration - and thus, no imperialism, colonialism, slavery, or Western hegemony over the Americas, Africa, the Middle East, or Asia. Just another lesson in how greed has its own long-term consequences.

In more recent times, the Ottoman Turks were eventually defeated, and Western powers displaced them as the hegemonic powers in the region. First it was Britain and France, then the U.S. filled the void after WW2 when Britain and France were greatly weakened and no longer able to control their empires. And they left quite a mess, which they should be reminded of every time they try to blame America for all the world's problems.

However, the U.S. can be blamed for rushing headlong into situations before adequately studying and learning about the areas of the world they're presuming to influence. We can also be blamed for becoming overly obsessed with communism and alleged "Soviet expansionism," which led to obsessive paranoia which has gripped the U.S. leadership ever since. It was due to this same paranoia which led to our orchestrating a coup in Iran in 1953 which led to the installation of the Shah, who was a vicious tyrant guilty of numerous atrocities which would also be blamed on our own government, since we're the ones who put him there.

The only reason we were there at all was due to the region's proximity to the Soviet Union, and our irrational fear that the Soviets would invade and take control of the entire region, without a single scrap of evidence or even any reasonably plausible argument which would justify such a position. So, I think it's safe to say that that is the USA's fault. The fact that our government acts so recklessly and aggressively, without any consideration for what they're actually doing or what the consequences might be - this is our fault. It's the fault of a warmongering, interventionist media and political factions - the same people who believe that it's our job to "make the world safe for democracy." It's from that mindset which many of America's present sins emanate.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
SO the US would tell us that Iran is the bad guy because it supports Hezbollah, but Saudi Arabia, who supported Al Qaeda and ISIS, is the good guy
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
...The fact that our government acts so recklessly and aggressively, without any consideration for what they're actually doing or what the consequences might be - this is our fault....
In this case we did know better, because the Monroe Doctrine and other doctrines have been aggressive. The Great White Fleet was a wrong when sent to frighten Japan into opening trade. By that time the government had departed from a defensive position and was wielding sway. The populace had come to believe that was correct behavior, because we had had so much success, so much unexpected success. The USA was once seen by many as a risk, as something which shouldn't have worked out but did -- perhaps miraculously.

In hindsight we can see that it was a mistake to move away from the founding principle of 'Don't tread on me' or 'To provide for the common defense'. Now here we are, stuck in the middle of the road, promised to be one of the knights of the round table for the foreseeable future. We've got bases all over the world, a military bill that could build a new planet, leaders of other nations worried about what we're going to do next or who we'll elect next. We're starting to see that we can't sustain all of this influence and probably shouldn't try.

The only reason we were there at all was due to the region's proximity to the Soviet Union, and our irrational fear that the Soviets would invade and take control of the entire region, without a single scrap of evidence or even any reasonably plausible argument which would justify such a position.
I don't quite agree on this, because the Soviets were quite evangelistic and went about converting other governments to communist dictatorships. They fomented many revolutions, many bloody ones. They had people here talking about a revolution in our country, but this was blocked (perhaps illegally) stopped by our new FBI agency. USA could easily have been put into another civil war or other bind by agents of the USSR. They were indeed out to destabilize our capitalist (and to them evil) union.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
In this case we did know better, because the Monroe Doctrine and other doctrines have been aggressive. The Great White Fleet was a wrong when sent to frighten Japan into opening trade. By that time the government had departed from a defensive position and was wielding sway. The populace had come to believe that was correct behavior, because we had had so much success, so much unexpected success. The USA was once seen by many as a risk, as something which shouldn't have worked out but did -- perhaps miraculously.

From the time of Independence through most of the 19th century, the U.S. had confined its aggression to its own immediate vicinity. True, we did send out a fleet to Japan to open up trade, but I don't think we had any serious intention of invading or colonizing that territory. A big turning point was the Spanish-American War, after which we gained Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines, which is how we got a foothold in East Asia and made us a player on that continent with the European colonial powers which had already been operating in that region (along with Japan, which was also trying to build up their own empire at the time).

But even then, we were still a junior power, whereas Britain and France were the big giants in the world at the time.

In hindsight we can see that it was a mistake to move away from the founding principle of 'Don't tread on me' or 'To provide for the common defense'. Now here we are, stuck in the middle of the road, promised to be one of the knights of the round table for the foreseeable future. We've got bases all over the world, a military bill that could build a new planet, leaders of other nations worried about what we're going to do next or who we'll elect next. We're starting to see that we can't sustain all of this influence and probably shouldn't try.

Another mistake was in the belief that we could (or should) become a world colonial player, like Britain and France were at the time. Just because they had empires didn't mean that we should try to attain one, yet that was another mistake (and by that time, most of the world was already sewn up, so all we could do was grab leftovers from other nation's empires, such as Spain's).

We were a major power by the time of WW1, but not quite yet a superpower. Britain and France became allies mainly because both were worried about upstart Germany trying to muscle in on their action. Americans became worried, too, because the German Kaiser was a megalomaniac and a reckless fool (not unlike some of our own national leaders).

After WW1, the best thing for the world would have been for the European powers to withdraw from all of their colonies and for the US to withdraw from the Philippines. The fact that they waited another 30-40 years was another bad mistake.

I don't quite agree on this, because the Soviets were quite evangelistic and went about converting other governments to communist dictatorships. They fomented many revolutions, many bloody ones. They had people here talking about a revolution in our country, but this was blocked (perhaps illegally) stopped by our new FBI agency. USA could easily have been put into another civil war or other bind by agents of the USSR. They were indeed out to destabilize our capitalist (and to them evil) union.

The Soviet government was comprised of revolutionaries who came from humble origins and oppressed under a monarchist dictatorship. They were aware of other working class and/or oppressed peoples in other countries, so they saw themselves as natural allies. If there were revolutionaries in other countries and they asked for help from their Soviet comrades, then they wouldn't have been forcibly converting anyone as much as assisting those who had already converted on their own. And why shouldn't they? If the US or Britain or France was colonizing or otherwise exerting hegemonic control over their country, then it's natural that there would be local inhabitants who might want to fight back and liberate their country from colonial oppression. If the Soviets took advantage of that opportunity, then the fault would still be ours for failing to uphold principles of freedom and democracy in the areas of the world where we held influence. South Korea was not a free country. South Vietnam was not a free country. Cuba was not a free country prior to the Communist Revolution in that country. China was not a free country prior to their Communist Revolution. Same for Nicaragua, which was ruled by a brutal US-backed dictatorship. Other countries we've supposed "protected" from Communism include Iran, Chile, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, and many others which have some of the worst human rights record in history.

I seriously doubt that they ever could have fomented a civil war within the United States. Hoover's FBI and other McCarthyites were constantly paranoid about such a thing, but it was an unfounded fear. If we ever came close to something like that, it wouldn't have been due to Communists. Rather, it would have been due to the paranoid anti-Communists and their warmongering and other interventionist activities which more Americans were becoming aware of and expressing their sharp disapproval of such activities. The warmongers blamed Communists for the anti-war movement, but I say it was the obsessive anti-Communists who contributed the most to the internal divisions facing America at the time.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Gone
Premium Member
Should we care about these totalitarian promoting satellite stations? Should I believe that the US is wrong to take them down?
Why is it okay for the US to have propaganda outlets but not others? This is blatant hypocrisy. I stand by freedom of speech and expression. The government is out of control (along with corporations).
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
From the time of Independence through most of the 19th century, the U.S. had confined its aggression to its own immediate vicinity.
Mostly, and we did gradually and aggressively annex, take, buy, colonize and force out. At the same time there were ideals here competing against all of that. There were people protesting it and who knew and argued what was wrong with it. Maybe what finally got everyone's attention was the way weapons got so much deadlier and wars got so much more horrible. Either that or it was when the states reached the other side of the continent.

True, we did send out a fleet to Japan to open up trade, but I don't think we had any serious intention of invading or colonizing that territory.
Our intention was to threaten them with invasion, and that threat worked. Why did our president think this was Ok? I haven't read about his opinions, so I don't know. We send an armada of steel ships and parked them just off of the coast within firing range. This was a bloody threat. This not only opened up Japan for trade but got the Japanese to upgrade their war machine. Perhaps that (upgrading Japan's military) was one of the US president's goals, but I don't know.

The Soviet government was comprised of revolutionaries who came from humble origins and oppressed under a monarchist dictatorship. They were aware of other working class and/or oppressed peoples in other countries, so they saw themselves as natural allies. If there were revolutionaries in other countries and they asked for help from their Soviet comrades, then they wouldn't have been forcibly converting anyone as much as assisting those who had already converted on their own. And why shouldn't they? If the US or Britain or France was colonizing or otherwise exerting hegemonic control over their country, then it's natural that there would be local inhabitants who might want to fight back and liberate their country from colonial oppression. If the Soviets took advantage of that opportunity, then the fault would still be ours for failing to uphold principles of freedom and democracy in the areas of the world where we held influence. South Korea was not a free country. South Vietnam was not a free country. Cuba was not a free country prior to the Communist Revolution in that country. China was not a free country prior to their Communist Revolution. Same for Nicaragua, which was ruled by a brutal US-backed dictatorship. Other countries we've supposed "protected" from Communism include Iran, Chile, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, and many others which have some of the worst human rights record in history.
The Nazis were also fresh in our memory. They called themselves a socialist party. Everywhere socialism or communism went there was blood, backstabbing and more dictators. The USSR preached against capitalism, against religion, against all theism! Naturally this frightened people.
I seriously doubt that they ever could have fomented a civil war within the United States. Hoover's FBI and other McCarthyites were constantly paranoid about such a thing, but it was an unfounded fear. If we ever came close to something like that, it wouldn't have been due to Communists. Rather, it would have been due to the paranoid anti-Communists and their warmongering and other interventionist activities which more Americans were becoming aware of and expressing their sharp disapproval of such activities. The warmongers blamed Communists for the anti-war movement, but I say it was the obsessive anti-Communists who contributed the most to the internal divisions facing America at the time.
It preached religion was a menace, and this bothered many religious Americans. It also horrified us in other ways. When the USSR people were starving (which happened multiple times due to the inept governmental structure), the soviet central government was sometimes too embarrassed to accept help. Rather than accept help it refused to admit problems existed and so let people suffer instead. It forbade its citizens to leave its borders! It blackballed anyone who spoke out against its group think! Its food distribution system was inept due to socialist failings involving centralized control of resources, the bottleneck which made graft deadly. Worse still, it was in a very cold climate where starvation more often resulted in death. The central government could never admit fault in things, and so problems continued to build. Americans heard about these things. They could hardly avoid hearing about them. The worse things got the more the USSR preached socialism both in their own country and in others. They outlawed religion and blocked out all information from leaving or entering their borders. Americans were horrified of course. Many believed socialism was of Satan and was Satan trying to get their children. It was to many of us Americans as satanic as nazism. Call this paranoia, but it was orchestrated by the Soviets. They wanted this an anti-God, anti-capitalist message to go out. They wanted people to know that they were going to defeat God and religion and capitalism.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
"Spiritual" can lead anywhere, even oppression.
I'd prefer that Iran steer towards libertarian.
It will. Iran is a special place. Its got millennia of History behind it. Right now it may not seem obvious, but the place is exploding with talent. It was never a good idea to be an enemy of Iran. Its too bad things have gone this way, and its a terrible knot to untie.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Why is it okay for the US to have propaganda outlets but not others? This is blatant hypocrisy. I stand by freedom of speech and expression. The government is out of control (along with corporations).
Logically I must agree that its not consistent. Do we believe that free speech solves more problems than it causes?

What is your reason to support free speech to this degree? Would you say its from divine revelation or practical principles or just how you feel or what? You feel like what goes around comes around or what?
 
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