Iran: misguided patriotism or dangerous fanaticism?

[pete29]

He isn't going to. That's the thing that you're not getting. He's probably had an obsession with his nuclear program since his days as a student. His intentions with this particular program are not violent, but there is no chance of him being persuaded to give it up. It's a very strong point of pride for him. I don't deny that some of his actions have been heinous, and I do completely agree that he should be discouraged from meddling in the conflict over Israel and the situation in Iraq. However, the UN is missing a golden opportunity to use his attachment to his nuclear program to force his hand in these issues. If the UN agreed to allow the program to continue on the condition of curtailing meddling in other regions, he would be willing to talk of compromise because these are much less personal issues. Furthermore, promising that he could continue the program under the condition of agreeing to full inspections into it, unlike the sanctions, would actually work.[/quote ] What a stupid and naive assupmtion. If he can get nuclear weapons, he will. If he gets nuclear weapon he will use them. If you think the UN can do anything about it, do some research on Darfur, or Rwanda. If the UN did its job, The United States wouldn't be in Iraq. Everyone coveniently forgets that the United States went in because Hussein defied UN resolutions, and the Un didn't even try to enforce them.:areyoucra

 

[pete29]

All this anti-Iranian feeling, considering people there fanatic, etc etc are simply the result of very successful Main Stream Media (ie Western controlled media) brainwashing. For example, go and watch the movie 300 or even the kid movie Alladin. Most white American will be unconsciously being convinced that the villians are Muslim Arab / Persian, and the hero to save the day is the White American Hero (Alladin is relatively pale, and speak perfect American English as contrast to his counter part). 300 Greek Spartans defeated thousands of Persian soldiers and so on.

So until the day MSM stop brainwashing the American public, this anti-Iranian stuff will not go away, and we shall keep hearing people worrying about the mad Iranian President of Ahmadinejad firing nuclear missle into Israel and causing the end of the world to arrive now see the move Exeikeil.

WHEN THE SO CALLED CIVILIZED MUSLIM WORLD STOPS BRAINWASHING CHILDREN INTO STRAPPING BOMBS ONTO THEIR BODIES AND PURPOSELY ATTACKING CIVILIAN TARGETS WITH THE PROMISE OF GOING TO HEAVEN, ( Which I pray GOD has mercy on them because of their innocence as children. May I add that the people who send these children to their deaths have one foot in hell and the other on a banana peel.) THEN MAYBE I CAN TRUST THEM NOT TO KILL MY FAMILY !!!!!!!!!!:yes:

 

[Radio Frequency X]

Never forget that the very US that is calling for Iran to halt its nuclear ambitions is the ONLY country to have used the nuclear bomb in battle. Doesn't it come across as a bit hypocritical to say that some nations can have them while others may not, all the while being the only country to have unleashed that very weapon upon the world? Think about it.

We probably saved hundreds of thousands of American and Japanese lives when we dropped the bombs and ended the war. There is a place for nuclear weapons. There is a time and a place for their use. However, genocide or imperial ambitions are not legitimate reasons for using such a weapon. France has lots of nukes, but we can trust that they'll only use them in self defense. Even Russia seems to be able to be trusted with the responsibility of possessing the bomb. But Iran? No way. Giving Ahmadinejad the bomb would be like having given one to Hitler.

 

[astarath]

the iranian people are being led with a mask of patriotism while their leader is definitely fanaticism.

 

[Mathematician]

You could make the claim that all patriotism is misguided. :flirt:

 

[greatcalgarian]

WHEN THE SO CALLED CIVILIZED MUSLIM WORLD STOPS BRAINWASHING CHILDREN INTO STRAPPING BOMBS ONTO THEIR BODIES AND PURPOSELY ATTACKING CIVILIAN TARGETS WITH THE PROMISE OF GOING TO HEAVEN, ( Which I pray GOD has mercy on them because of their innocence as children. May I add that the people who send these children to their deaths have one foot in hell and the other on a banana peel.) THEN MAYBE I CAN TRUST THEM NOT TO KILL MY FAMILY !!!!!!!!!!:yes:

Why do they want to brainwash their children into strapping bombs onto their boides and "purposely attacking civilian targets" .......??
Which civilian targets they attacked, and for what reason?
These Muslim have nothing better to do? If they have not been persecuted or oppressed, do you think they will still do those horrible things?
Of course God will have mercy on those children, for they do not know what they were doing.
God will have no mercy on those who brainwashed their children into doing the suicide bombing.
Similarly God (yes, the Christian God) will have no mercy on those who persecute and oppress the Muslim.
God will have no mercy on those occupying other peoples land, and exploiting their riches of oil, and creating problem making the middle east nations fighting one another.
God will have no mercy at all for all who embrace war instead of peace.

You should pray for all those West neo con, those war lover to stop oppressing the Muslim, and the Middle East Nation, to stop exploiting them, taking away oil on their land at unfair trading, without considering helping the middle east nation to develop their infra structure, to develop the alternate form of energy such as nuclear energy once the oil run out etc.
Without praying to get rid of the original cause, the subsequent resultant reaction (development of hatred and bad feeling towards the West, feeling of helplessly being persecuted, and being brainwashed into believing that the only way to escape from those torture and suffering is to strap a bomb and commit suicide to bring down the enemy), there is no escape from the possibility that you (and my as well) family may one day fall victim to this crazy war between one human being with another, whether you are Catholic, Muslim, Protestant, Jew, Atheist, Buddist, Hindu etc.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

You could make the claim that all patriotism is misguided. :flirt:

gah! I could make a claim that I'm a pink elephant.

 

[PureX]

Iran is doing what's good for Iran. They're doing the same things for themselves that any other country would do, including us. The fact that they are not a democracy is their own choice. And they seem to be happy with the way their country is being run.

That's more than I can say about the way MY country is being run.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

Iran is doing what's good for Iran. They're doing the same things for themselves that any other country would do, including us. The fact that they are not a democracy is their own choice. And they seem to be happy with the way their country is being run.

That's more than I can say about the way MY country is being run.

Ever thought about moving to Iran?

 

[PureX]

Ever thought about moving to Iran?

Why would I do that? I'm not Iranian. I'm not Muslim. I'm not even middle-eastern.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

Why would I do that? I'm not Iranian. I'm not Muslim. I'm not even middle-eastern.

I've just always been interested in why people don't move to countries that better represent their political ideologies. But if your not a Shiite Muslim, I can understand why you wouldn't want to move there. You just seem fed up with America. What I should have asked, is have you considered leaving the country?

 

[PureX]

I've just always been interested in why people don't move to countries that better represent their political ideologies.

Iran doesn't better represent my political ideology. It better represents the Iranian's political ideology. Iran is doing what's best for iran. Why would we expect them to do otherwise? And why are we behaving as if their doing what's best for them makes them some kind of wild-eyed terrorists? Don't you find this all insanely self-centered, and ridiculously myopic? It makes me think that my own government and fellow countrymen have lost their own minds, not the Iranians.

But if your not a Shiite Muslim, I can understand why you wouldn't want to move there. You just seem fed up with America. What I should have asked, is have you considered leaving the country?

Yes, but the one place I'd like to go won't let me in. I'm too old and broke.

Also, all my family and friends live here. It's not so easy to leave people like that. And too, one of the reasons I get so disgusted with the United States is that I think we should know better. That we DO know better. That we are better people than the way we are behaving. I feel like our own government shames us in front of the whole world, and makes us all look like pathetic fools. Yet I also know we're letting them do it to us, because we're too scared and too lazy and too ignorant to stand up to them. This is why I'm frustrated. We're better people than this. And I don't understand why we keep acting like such morons.

*sigh*

 

[pete29]

Why do they want to brainwash their children into strapping bombs onto their boides and "purposely attacking civilian targets" .......??
Which civilian targets they attacked, and for what reason?
These Muslim have nothing better to do? If they have not been persecuted or oppressed, do you think they will still do those horrible things?
Of course God will have mercy on those children, for they do not know what they were doing.
God will have no mercy on those who brainwashed their children into doing the suicide bombing.
Similarly God (yes, the Christian God) will have no mercy on those who persecute and oppress the Muslim.
God will have no mercy on those occupying other peoples land, and exploiting their riches of oil, and creating problem making the middle east nations fighting one another.
God will have no mercy at all for all who embrace war instead of peace.

You should pray for all those West neo con, those war lover to stop oppressing the Muslim, and the Middle East Nation, to stop exploiting them, taking away oil on their land at unfair trading, without considering helping the middle east nation to develop their infra structure, to develop the alternate form of energy such as nuclear energy once the oil run out etc.
Without praying to get rid of the original cause, the subsequent resultant reaction (development of hatred and bad feeling towards the West, feeling of helplessly being persecuted, and being brainwashed into believing that the only way to escape from those torture and suffering is to strap a bomb and commit suicide to bring down the enemy), there is no escape from the possibility that you (and my as well) family may one day fall victim to this crazy war between one human being with another, whether you are Catholic, Muslim, Protestant, Jew, Atheist, Buddist, Hindu etc.

I'll make a deal with you. I'll pray for the neo con war lovers, and you pray for the islama facist war lovers.

 

[pete29]

Iran doesn't better represent my political ideology. It better represents the Iranian's political ideology. Iran is doing what's best for iran. Why would we expect them to do otherwise? And why are we behaving as if their doing what's best for them makes them some kind of wild-eyed terrorists? Don't you find this all insanely self-centered, and ridiculously myopic? It makes me think that my own government and fellow countrymen have lost their own minds, not the Iranians.
Yes, but the one place I'd like to go won't let me in. I'm too old and broke.

Also, all my family and friends live here. It's not so easy to leave people like that. And too, one of the reasons I get so disgusted with the United States is that I think we should know better. That we DO know better. That we are better people than the way we are behaving. I feel like our own government shames us in front of the whole world, and makes us all look like pathetic fools. Yet I also know we're letting them do it to us, because we're too scared and too lazy and too ignorant to stand up to them. This is why I'm frustrated. We're better people than this. And I don't understand why we keep acting like such morons.]
sigh*

Just what is this country doing wrong. There are at least a dozen studies out there that say we are the most generous people on earth. I think you just hate George Bush. If Gore had won things wouldn't be any better, but you wouldn't be complaining.

*

 

[Radio Frequency X]

Just what is this country doing wrong. There are at least a dozen studies out there that say we are the most generous people on earth. I think you just hate George Bush. If Gore had won things wouldn't be any better, but you wouldn't be complaining.

*

And Gore would have taken us into Iraq. He was the biggest Hawk in the Clinton administration and was reported to have tried to convince Clinton, on several occasions, to invade Iraq. In fact, it was Gore's hawkishness that made him seem no worse than Bush in 2000. I thought Gore would have been a better leader, but worse on domestic issues. So I voted Libertarian.

 

[PureX]

Just what is this country doing wrong. There are at least a dozen studies out there that say we are the most generous people on earth. I think you just hate George Bush. If Gore had won things wouldn't be any better, but you wouldn't be complaining.

*

It's true that the Bush administration is the worst administration in the history of the Unites States, by far. There is little dispute about that, even from people who voted for Bush, and idiotically would do so again. But I didn't vote for Gore, nor did I vote for Kerry. They wouldn't have been the unmitigated disaster that Bush has been, but they wouldn't have addressed our real problems, either. Which is why I didn't vote for them.

What are we doing wrong? What are we doing RIGHT? We have allowed our culture to become little else but the worship of stupidity and greed. And our government reflects that. Everything in the United States reflects that. We think exploitation is commerce. We think wealth is the ability to be fully and completely selfish. We think the Earth is here for us to exploit, abuse, and rob for the sake of profits. We think patriotism is a bunch of beer-swilling rednecks waving flags and tearing up over some pathetic country song. We think freedom can be forced on people from the barrel of a gun, which is of course oppression, and not freedom at all. We think anyone who thinks different from us is a threat, because we aren't really thinking, at all. We spread our culture of greed and willful ignorance all over the world and then we wonder why other nations don't like us, even though we give them money. We elected Bush, twice, and are proud of it. We invaded another country and have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of people and we don't even know why we did it. And now that we've created this monumental mess, there, we don't know how to fix it, or even how to end it.

Here at home we have huge corporations, run by a few very wealthy people, gouging and exploiting their fellow citizens for all they can get. The oil companies, the drug companies, the insurance companies, the utility companies, the banks, all gouging their fellow citizens to extract maximum profits, with no thought at all of the suffering they cause people, or the damage to the nation's economic and physical health and well-being, or of anything else. It's all about short term maximum profits. When companies can't squeeze maximum profits out of their factories here in the U.S., because their laborers have access to labor laws and protections, they move to other countries and exploit their people, all to maximize profits, while putting so many of their own fellow citizens out of work. They bribe politicians to give them tax breaks, and to even make the taxpaying public subsidize their profiteering. And the politicians take the bribes, because they, too, are maximizing their profits.

Everything that happens in the United States happens because someone is maximizing their profits, and much of what happens is stupid, selfish, and destructive. But we accept this all as normal because we think greed is a good motive for human behavior. We don't even question it anymore. And anyone who dares to question it will quickly and viciously be smeared and slandered by the professional liars owned by the very wealthy, to help them maintain the status quo.

My question is, why aren't you outraged? Why are you buying into the slander machine's "divide and conquer" strategy of turning liberals and conservatives into each other's "bogey men"? Don't you see that they own both political parties, and they control who you get to vote for, so they'll get their way regardless? Can't you see that they're trying to make you hate the "other guy" (no matter who that is) so they can get you to vote for their outrageously bad candidate (no matter who that is)? They don't care who wins, as long as they can keep controlling who's running on both sides. And they do that by getting you to vote for their bad candidate by making you vote against the other bad candidate. All the candidates are bad, because they own them all. That's the whole point of their game. They continue to rob us all blind while we continue to vote for their poor candidates by getting us to hate the other guy more. And they do that by lying, and by playing on our prejudices.

 

[greatcalgarian]

I'll make a deal with you. I'll pray for the neo con war lovers, and you pray for the islama facist war lovers.

It is a deal. In fact I prayed daily for both side to see sense into what they are doing. If you can help to convince everyone to pray for both sides and not pointing finger at one side and not seeing the wrong of the other side, I believe we can help to bring some peace to this world.:angel2:

 

[greatcalgarian]

Speaker: Larijani, Ali
Function: Secretary of Supreme National Security Council, Supreme National Security Council of Islamic Republic of Iran, Islamic Republic of Iran
Nation/
Organization: Islamic Republic of Iran
Speech at the 43rd Munich Conference on Security Policy
02/11/2007

In the Name of God the Compassionate, the Merciful

I would like to begin by expressing my thanks to the organizers of this conference and the Government of Germany for the excellent arrangements made for this conference and the opportunity given to me to attend this gathering.

This conference and similar initiatives launched for the same purpose reveal the fact that fast-changing global developments have drastically transformed the international and regional security realities which necessitate a review and redefinition of the previous analytical and management tools.

http://www.securityconference.de/ko...nu_2007=&menu_konferenzen=&sprache=en&id=195&

After the victory of the Islamic Revolution, Iran established all its state organs and institutions on the votes of its people. Islamic Iran has seen almost one general election each year. Do you know of any other state in our region which has been so much dedicated to democracy as Iran? Even if one can ever find any such state in our region its armed forces are so strong that they can change its democratic institutions when they wish so. But, let’s see how the U.S. administrations have been treating the democratic Iran. The policy they pursued in this regard was denial, isolation and sanctions. Yet, we should note that this policy has resulted in nothing other than further stiffening the resolve of the Iranian people.

 

[greatcalgarian]

The Islamic Republic of Iran was opposed to the occupation of Iraq from the very beginning. Through my country has suffered the most from the policies of Saddam’s regime, it believed that the occupation of Iraq would breach international security. Even after the occupation of Iraq, the Islamic Republic of Iran was the only country in the region which supported the establishment of democracy, the national government and the national assembly as well as the constitution of Iraq with a hope that they will help restore security in Iraq as early as possible.

Today, it is clear to everybody that the suicide attacks in Iraq are launched mostly by the young people who have gathered in Iraq form the countries which are friends of the United States and this stems from the mistaken militaristic policies of the past.

Today, it seems that some countries are misleading the Americans and pushing them in a direction which will only add to their problems in the region. In fact, they see the deeper involvement of the United States in this region as a solution to their own prejudiced rivalry.

I repeat that the Islamic Republic of Iran supports democracy, the national government of Prime Minister Maleki, the national assembly and the constitution of Iraq and will not spare any effort which can contribute to the reconstruction, development and security of Iraq. My country also fully supports the preservation of the unity and territorial integrity of Iraq as a basic principle.

Speech continued.

Iran’s National Security Doctrine is defensive, because Iran does not consider military actions as the solution to the problems. We have friendly ties with countries of the region and do not have any ambition towards their lands and power. Others in the region attacked Iran and we defended ourselves. Future will prove that there will be no harm from Iran to these countries.

When Iran’s territories were occupied by Saddam Hussein, and our people bombarded with chemical weapons, our regional and foreign friends remained silent or supported Saddam Hussein. When times passed they realized that they made mistakes and Saddam Hussein became a problem for them.

 

[greatcalgarian]

And Iran nuclear case:

Episode One: Forty years ago during the dictatorship of Shah, they planned a project for 20000 Megawatt nuclear electricity and with the aid of U.S and some other European countries; they signed agreements to build a power plant. But when Iranians toppled the dictator, the west punished Iran and nullified all the contracts.

Episode Two: Iran had to achieve nuclear know-how by itself, while it accepted NPT and was members of IAEA, Iran benefited from IAEA the least and reached the current position by relying on domestic science.

Episode Three: Two years negotiation and suspension of all nuclear activities and the result was a plan in which nothing was clear, and which Mr. Al Bradaie and other Europeans said was an inappropriate plan.

Episode Four: During the last year they imposed pressure on Iran with this policy that either we had to stop nuclear activities or they would refer the case to the Security Council and other threats. Even after long negotiations with Mr. Solana, Iran’s case was referred to the Security Council.

These methods teach others that International arrangements cannot be accepted as a basic among big powers and regional powers. They have rights. Iran’s nuclear case is not complicated in its nature. It is being used as a pretext for adventure. Why?

You will never learn any of the above from the Western media such as CNN and BBC