Interesting on plants.

[shawn001]

<H1 class="title article-title">Can Plants Think? </H1>In a new study, scientists have found a cabbage relative capable of remembering and responding to information






http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-07/study-unveils-plant-nervous-system-illuminating-how-plants-remember-and-react



Excitable Plants


In researching last month's Origins essay on the origin of the nervous system, I was struck by the range of behavior and electrical excitability exhibited by organisms that lack nerve or muscle cells. Some sponges, for example, have a sneeze-like reflex that flushes out sediment (see a video), whereas others generate electrical "action potentials" much like the impulses that convey information in nerves and brains. Electrical signals have been recorded even in the single-celled Paramecium, where they appear to play a role in escape and avoidance behaviors.

Excitable Plants - Origins

 

[idav]

That is a very interesting article. Cells are just mini machines.

The mix of plants, behavior, and neurobiology is a strange cocktail. Even Darwin sounds slightly less than sober when he conjures up the image of tiny brains in the tips of growing roots. All the same, as Darwin realized, and as Van Volkenburgh and others have argued more recently, plants are far more responsive and dynamic than most animal-centric researchers give them credit for. That they do what they do without a nervous system makes them all the more fascinating.

 

[lunamoth]

<H1 class="title article-title">Can Plants Think?</H1>In a new study, scientists have found a cabbage relative capable of remembering and responding to information
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-07/study-unveils-plant-nervous-system-illuminating-how-plants-remember-and-react
Excitable Plants

In researching last month's Origins essay on the origin of the nervous system, I was struck by the range of behavior and electrical excitability exhibited by organisms that lack nerve or muscle cells. Some sponges, for example, have a sneeze-like reflex that flushes out sediment (see a video), whereas others generate electrical "action potentials" much like the impulses that convey information in nerves and brains. Electrical signals have been recorded even in the single-celled Paramecium, where they appear to play a role in escape and avoidance behaviors.

Excitable Plants - Origins

I like the overview article, it summarizes a number of interesting points. However, the bit you quoted above is not about plants: sponges and Paramecium are not plants.

Also, being able to sense, respond to, and imprint signals (memory) is still a very long way from anything we would consider thinking.

I know some people are couch potatoes (hey, I like a lazy day every once in a while channel surfing too!), but even the couch potatoes are way beyond plants in thinking.

2 c

 

[shawn001]

I like the overview article, it summarizes a number of interesting points. However, the bit you quoted above is not about plants: sponges and Paramecium are not plants.

Also, being able to sense, respond to, and imprint signals (memory) is still a very long way from anything we would consider thinking.

I know some people are couch potatoes (hey, I like a lazy day every once in a while channel surfing too!), but even the couch potatoes are way beyond plants in thinking.

2 c

The plants don't have actual nervous systems. You have to have an advanced nervous system for conciousness, "thinking."


Many animals besides humans however can think, some of them complex thoughts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think there is still much to be learned from plants.

Also, being able to sense, respond to, and imprint signals (memory) is still a very long way from anything we would consider thinking.

But there is still something going on. I personally do not see why it should be that a central nervous system is a universal for any sort of mental activity. It may seem be so on earth, but it should be of no surprise if life on another planet evolved in a very different manner.
But with plants there is something. There life cycles are dependent upon the amount of sunlight it receives. Of course it's the process of certain chemicals being produced to trigger the appropriate functions, but that's really all we are. We just happen to have a few sensory organs and a limited understanding of the functioning of plants. For all we know the chloroplast may play a role in plant cognition. Highly unlikely but it's as good as anyone's guess.

 

[idav]

I think there is still much to be learned from plants.


But there is still something going on. I personally do not see why it should be that a central nervous system is a universal for any sort of mental activity. It may seem be so on earth, but it should be of no surprise if life on another planet evolved in a very different manner.
But with plants there is something. There life cycles are dependent upon the amount of sunlight it receives. Of course it's the process of certain chemicals being produced to trigger the appropriate functions, but that's really all we are. We just happen to have a few sensory organs and a limited understanding of the functioning of plants. For all we know the chloroplast may play a role in plant cognition. Highly unlikely but it's as good as anyone's guess.

The central nervous system isn't necessary but it helps one cell to communicate with trillions of other cells that need the input. If you compared it to a bee hive the central point would be the queen bee. It helps for uniformity.

 

[bobhikes]

I will come back to read the article later.

 

[shawn001]

I think there is still much to be learned from plants.


But there is still something going on. I personally do not see why it should be that a central nervous system is a universal for any sort of mental activity. It may seem be so on earth, but it should be of no surprise if life on another planet evolved in a very different manner.
But with plants there is something. There life cycles are dependent upon the amount of sunlight it receives. Of course it's the process of certain chemicals being produced to trigger the appropriate functions, but that's really all we are. We just happen to have a few sensory organs and a limited understanding of the functioning of plants. For all we know the chloroplast may play a role in plant cognition. Highly unlikely but it's as good as anyone's guess.

Painted wolf, this was just because I thought of it reading your post. I also agree with this "life on another planet evolved in a very different manner."

Rodolfo Llinás: That's a very intriguing issue. The nervous system is about 550 million years old, and it first came about when cells decided to make animals. Basically there are two types of animals: animals, and animals that have no brains; they are called plants. They don't need a nervous system because they don't move actively, they don't pull up their roots and run in a forest fire! Anything that moves actively requires a nervous system; otherwise it would come to a quick death.
Why would it die if it didn't have a nervous system?

Because if you move, the variety of environments that you find is very large. So if you happen to be a plant you have to worry only about the very small space you grow into. You don't have to do anything other than maybe move up and down. And you're following the sun anyhow, so there is no planned movement, and therefore there is no necessity to predict what is going to happen if, which is what the nervous system seems to be about. It seems to be about moving in a more or less intelligent way. The more elaborate the system, the more intelligent the movement.
So you need a nervous system in order to be able to predict the future?

Yes, and in order to predict you have to have, at the very least, a simple image inside that tells you something about the purpose of the outside world. That is common to all nervous systems of all forms that we know of. Each animal has a different universe—the universe it sees, the universe it feels, the universe it tastes. Earth probably looks very different not only for all of us as individual humans, but also for different animals.

NOVA | The Electric Brain



IF people haven't seen this its really worth watching it, totally fascinating.

The first flower

NOVA | First Flower | PBS

That 60 mile long valley in china is simply amazing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Painted wolf, this was just because I thought of it reading your post. I also agree with this "life on another planet evolved in a very different manner."

Rodolfo Llinás: That's a very intriguing issue. The nervous system is about 550 million years old, and it first came about when cells decided to make animals. Basically there are two types of animals: animals, and animals that have no brains; they are called plants. They don't need a nervous system because they don't move actively, they don't pull up their roots and run in a forest fire! Anything that moves actively requires a nervous system; otherwise it would come to a quick death.
Why would it die if it didn't have a nervous system?

Plants do move though. They don't move place to place, but they will actively position themselves to absorb the most sunlight possible. It's actually pretty fascinating to keep a close eye on a plant's movement when it's sitting in a window on the longest and hottest days of summer. Not only do the leaves move around, but even the stalks can bend and twist to get into the best position for absorbing sunlight.

Because if you move, the variety of environments that you find is very large. So if you happen to be a plant you have to worry only about the very small space you grow into. You don't have to do anything other than maybe move up and down. And you're following the sun anyhow, so there is no planned movement, and therefore there is no necessity to predict what is going to happen if, which is what the nervous system seems to be about. It seems to be about moving in a more or less intelligent way. The more elaborate the system, the more intelligent the movement.

That is an over simplification. Plants respond to a number of stimuli, including stressors. They even have a way to communicate with each other.

Yes, and in order to predict you have to have, at the very least, a simple image inside that tells you something about the purpose of the outside world. That is common to all nervous systems of all forms that we know of. Each animal has a different universe—the universe it sees, the universe it feels, the universe it tastes. Earth probably looks very different not only for all of us as individual humans, but also for different animals.

The problem with that statements is "that we know of." It literally is only that we know of, which isn't much. We're in the infancy of understanding how our own brain and nervous system which means the definition of "that we know of" is going to be changing rapidly and dramatically over the next several decades. We're also just starting to shine a light on the subject of plant behavior. And as our understanding of our own cognition grows, especially on the genetic levels, we may find more similarities. Plant and animal cells are closely related afterall.

NOVA | The Electric Brain



IF people haven't seen this its really worth watching it, totally fascinating.

The first flower

NOVA | First Flower | PBS

That 60 mile long valley in china is simply amazing.[/quote]