"Immoral Sex Acts Taught In Elementary School?"

[Reverend Rick]

Where has anyone suggested that attempting to control your children completely would be at all appropriate?

However, until a child is old enough to take on more responsibility, parental guidance often involves keeping the child from access to things considered dangerous or too mature for the child's maturity level. We wouldn't let a five-year-old drive a car or use the kitchen stove unsupervised, so why does it make sense to allow unlimited access to tv or the net to older children?

Where did I imply anything like that? This is not an all or nothing world, your thinking is binary.

 

[HerDotness]

People, parenting is about guidance not complete control.

This is what you said, so if you don't mean that you think some of the comments made above suggest that people support far too much control of children's behavior, kindly make your meaning clearer.

Where did I imply anything like that? This is not an all or nothing world, your thinking is binary.

Where did I say anything suggesting that I believe a child's every movement must be controlled by parents, that otherwise children inevitably have too much freedom and run wild with no parental guidance at all? THAT would be binary thinking.

 

[Pegg]

They're trained, educated professionals. So yes, yes it does make them equipped and qualified.

being qualified to teach does not make you a better parent though. Parents are concerned about their kids long-term welfare because they love them. Teachers are paid to do a temporary job. Big difference.

There are far too many incompetent parents out there who burden the rest of society with their lil' mouth breathers. A standard needs to be established for the children's sake.

who's standards though? And what standards? We just had a teacher from one of our private schools make a porn video with a former student. Is that the sort of teacher we should want our kids to be taught by. I dont care how well educated you are, it doesnt make you a morally upright individual who has the childrens best interests at heart.

 

[jarofthoughts]

being qualified to teach does not make you a better parent though.

But being knowledgable about child psychology, cognitive development, socialization and behavioural disorders does.
Whether you like it or not I, as a qualified teacher, know more about children in general than almost every parent out there, and in some cases I even know more about their own child than they do.
Listening to the advice of educated and experienced professionals is generally a good idea.
And as mentioned before, being able to reproduce does not make one qualified to be a parent.
All you need for that is the proper biological equipment.

who's standards though? And what standards?

The standards of the relevant educational department of the state or country, who in turn take their cues from the elected officials that we are all allowed to vote on.
In other words; our standards.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

People, parenting is about guidance not complete control.

I agree. This becomes ever more true as the kiddos get older.

When it comes to sex and religion and how we guide our own children, we tend to as parents become REALLY sensitive to how others see us. Most parents want to be seen as "good" parents for the decisions they make regarding their kids particularly about sex.

Our kids have spoken with me and the hubbie freely about sex and what they're interested in, what they are planning on engaging in, and what they already did or know without our knowledge. What's most important to us, though, is that they don't have any hang-ups about sex, that they're fully informed of what they're interested in, find in them the resolve to follow through with information at hand, and that they know it's a beautiful, natural, and exciting world to engage in with another.

So, we ensured a comprehensive sex education, we as parents have made ourselves available to them, and they still get a lot of info from their friends. A LOT. When I say a lot....I mean a lot.

I think having a comprehensive sex education then is the right thing to do for them.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

being qualified to teach does not make you a better parent though. Parents are concerned about their kids long-term welfare because they love them. Teachers are paid to do a temporary job. Big difference.

I have taught dance, music, and performance for 20 years, and I still care deeply about my former students and what they're doing. They also still refer to me as Ms. Heather as grown adults with children of their own.

Of course I don't wish to usurp a parent's influence, but such an impersonal characterization of teachers is not only wildly wrong, it's quite offensive too.

who's standards though? And what standards? We just had a teacher from one of our private schools make a porn video with a former student. Is that the sort of teacher we should want our kids to be taught by. I dont care how well educated you are, it doesnt make you a morally upright individual who has the childrens best interests at heart.

This may be why you are so suspicious of all teachers. I suggest finding a way to let it go. I believe it's causing you a lot of unnecessary grief and stress. :flower:

 

[Pegg]

But being knowledgable about child psychology, cognitive development, socialization and behavioural disorders does. Whether you like it or not I, as a qualified teacher, know more about children in general than almost every parent out there, and in some cases I even know more about their own child than they do.

i highly doubt that.

Listening to the advice of educated and experienced professionals is generally a good idea.
And as mentioned before, being able to reproduce does not make one qualified to be a parent.
All you need for that is the proper biological equipment.

and which highly educated professionals should we listen to? The ones who tell us that smaking kids is ok, the ones who tell us that punishing them is wrong, the ones who tell us we should let kids do what they want or the ones who tell us we should put them in a strict routine and make their life orderly???

seems there are a lot of 'professionals' with lots of varying advice...so who is right and who is wrong?

The standards of the relevant educational department of the state or country, who in turn take their cues from the elected officials that we are all allowed to vote on.
In other words; our standards.

so your standards are better then my standards? Again this calls into question the legitimacy of such claims. Who is right and who is wrong? Some would say each to their own.

 

[Pegg]

I have taught dance, music, and performance for 20 years, and I still care deeply about my former students and what they're doing. They also still refer to me as Ms. Heather as grown adults with children of their own.

Of course I don't wish to usurp a parent's influence, but such an impersonal characterization of teachers is not only wildly wrong, it's quite offensive too.

if you are a parent, would you like someone to come along and say that because they are a qualified teacher they are the person who is best to influence your kids and bring up your kids? I doubt any parent would view this as anything short of pure arrogance. Parents are not all numskulls.

This may be why you are so suspicious of all teachers. I suggest finding a way to let it go. I believe it's causing you a lot of unnecessary grief and stress. :flower:

Obviously im a parent who is deeply concerned about my kids welfare so these issues are important to me as they are prevalent in society and its for that reason that i do not want anyone beside myself teaching my kids their own moral standards...I want my kids to be armed with knowledge that will protect them in the event that an unscrupulous teacher ever tried to take advantage of them.

 

[HerDotness]

and which highly educated professionals should we listen to? The ones who tell us that smaking kids is ok, the ones who tell us that punishing them is wrong, the ones who tell us we should let kids do what they want or the ones who tell us we should put them in a strict routine and make their life orderly???

You have some highly prejudiced views of teachers if you think that one would last long thinking that corporal punishment is just fine or the next two things you list are quite acceptable. The last? Well, I've known a few teachers who very well might think that a strict routine was a very good thing. In fact, one such was completely opposed to sex ed being taught in the public high school where he and I both taught. Fancy that...

Maybe teachers in Australia have far more leeway to hold and act out such extreme views and keep their jobs, but I know of few U.S. schools who would continue to employ a teacher who strongly supported the first three things you mention.

You're exaggerating most unjustly and honestly do seem to have a deepseated hostility toward and suspicion of professional educators.

if you are a parent, would you like someone to come along and say that because they are a qualified teacher they are the person who is best to influence your kids and bring up your kids?

Once again, this is a grotesque and insulting exaggeration. Very few teachers believe themselves better qualified to raise other people's children than the parents are except in cases of obvious parental incompetence.

Most teachers are, however, far more knowledgeable about child development and age-appropriate education techniques, materials and the like than the vast majority of parents unless they, too, have been trained as teachers or psychologists.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

if you are a parent, would you like someone to come along and say that because they are a qualified teacher they are the person who is best to influence your kids and bring up your kids? I doubt any parent would view this as anything short of pure arrogance. Parents are not all numskulls.

I never said that. And I am a parent of four children.

And no teacher has ever said to me that they are more qualified to best influence my children and bring them up better than me. If a teacher is best suited to teach my children about sex and sexuality, about nutrition, about the rules of the road, about the nature of our constitution, about finances and money....that doesn't take away the fact I'm still my children's mother.

And despite the fact that it is rather unpopular here at RF, I homeschool our daughter. Our other three children have been in or are currently enrolled at the local public high school.

Obviously im a parent who is deeply concerned about my kids welfare so these issues are important to me as they are prevalent in society and its for that reason that i do not want anyone beside myself teaching my kids their own moral standards...I want my kids to be armed with knowledge that will protect them in the event that an unscrupulous teacher ever tried to take advantage of them.

What would cause a teacher to be "unscrupulous"?

 

[Pegg]

What would cause a teacher to be "unscrupulous"?

someone with ulterior motives...and it could be in any profession, a doctor/psychologist/minister of religion... i dont believe we should openly trust anyone with our most vulnerable.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

someone with ulterior motives...and it could be in any profession, a doctor/psychologist/minister of religion... i dont believe we should openly trust anyone with our most vulnerable.

"Ulterior motives"? The vagueness is killing me.

I feel as if we're talking about He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named or something.

 

[Pegg]

"Ulterior motives"? The vagueness is killing me.

I feel as if we're talking about He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named or something.

the thread is about sexual morality, so i guess im talking about teachers who have their own ideas of what is moral and what is not when it comes to sex. Some teachers have been found to be peodophiles, that is a fact. So would i want my kids being taught sexual morality by someone who is sexually deviate? No.

And seeing anyone can become a teacher, sexual morality does not form part of their teaching criteria...they can hold to any morals they choose and they can still teach children. If they choose to be sex educators, then the type of education they give to kids will reflect their own personal beliefs and views...especially if a child asked for personal views which they often do.

 

[apophenia]

the thread is about sexual morality, so i guess im talking about teachers who have their own ideas of what is moral and what is not when it comes to sex. Some teachers have been found to be peodophiles, that is a fact. So would i want my kids being taught sexual morality by someone who is sexually deviate? No.

And seeing anyone can become a teacher, sexual morality does not form part of their teaching criteria...they can hold to any morals they choose and they can still teach children. If they choose to be sex educators, then the type of education they give to kids will reflect their own personal beliefs and views...especially if a child asked for personal views which they often do.

Give the kids some credit too. They will talk among themselves about teachers and their attitudes. And some will talk about this with their parents and maybe other teachers. It's not like they are just passive sponges, soaking up whatever views they are presented with.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Give the kids some credit too. They will talk among themselves about teachers and their attitudes. And some will talk about this with their parents and maybe other teachers. It's not like they are just passive sponges, soaking up whatever views they are presented with.

I'd REALLY worry if a child is being a passive sponge with their education, to be perfectly honest.

Most kids talk. And most kids talk with each other about teachers and teachers' lessons.

 

[jarofthoughts]

i highly doubt that.

So you're saying that education and experience is worthless?
Right...

and which highly educated professionals should we listen to? The ones who tell us that smaking kids is ok, the ones who tell us that punishing them is wrong, the ones who tell us we should let kids do what they want or the ones who tell us we should put them in a strict routine and make their life orderly???

Are you looking for advice?
Hitting kids is not a good idea, reasonable consequences (i.e. punishment) is fine, letting kids run around completely without boundaries is nonsense (and I can't imagine any teachers advocating that), and having some routine is an excellent idea just as it is with adults.

seems there are a lot of 'professionals' with lots of varying advice...so who is right and who is wrong?

Given that each child is different it would be unfair to treat all children the same. Therefore the advice given can vary depending on the child in question.

so your standards are better then my standards? Again this calls into question the legitimacy of such claims. Who is right and who is wrong? Some would say each to their own.

You do know that there is a ton of research available on what works and what doesn't?

 

[jarofthoughts]

the thread is about sexual morality, so i guess im talking about teachers who have their own ideas of what is moral and what is not when it comes to sex. Some teachers have been found to be peodophiles, that is a fact. So would i want my kids being taught sexual morality by someone who is sexually deviate? No.

And seeing anyone can become a teacher, sexual morality does not form part of their teaching criteria...they can hold to any morals they choose and they can still teach children. If they choose to be sex educators, then the type of education they give to kids will reflect their own personal beliefs and views...especially if a child asked for personal views which they often do.

I don't know how you do things in Australia, but in Norway teachers are subject to extensive background checks, have a set curriculum and are being routinely checked on that curriculum.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I don't know how you do things in Australia, but in Norway teachers are subject to extensive background checks, have a set curriculum and are being routinely checked on that curriculum.

There is a blue card that ANYONE working with kids has to have. The application process includes background checks etc.

 

[Me Myself]

the thread is about sexual morality, so i guess im talking about teachers who have their own ideas of what is moral and what is not when it comes to sex. Some teachers have been found to be peodophiles, that is a fact. So would i want my kids being taught sexual morality by someone who is sexually deviate? No.

Does it worry you that history teachers may be nazis?

The classes are not about morality, they are about sexuality.

It´s not about wheter it is "moraly good" to have sex, but about what are the biological effects causes by different types and forms of sexual encounters.

Most teens HAVE sex. They better know what the *** they are doing, and quite honestly, there is a lot of misinformation out there, and that is pretty much a big danger to their healths, and also a hazard for unwanted pregnancies.

You think yo wouldn´t like one of your kids ot have sex? wait till one of your 16 years old makes a woman pregnant and this woman kills the babyin desesperation because they didn´t know how to use a condom.

And yes, people can notknow how to use a condom, or not know basic stuf fon how to not lower their efficiency.

I figure you are against abortion? figure the amount of lifes that would be saved. Then the amount of teens who will be able to prevent getting VHD and similar. The risks are too high.

 

[Sunstone]

I think it is immoral not to provide children with an evidence based education in human sexuality. And since parents are generally too immoral to do that, it's up to the schools to do it.