Immigration Reform

[Trey of Diamonds]

"There must be some kind of way out of here,"
Said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion,
I can't get no relief.
Businessman they drink my wine,
Plowman dig my earth
None will level on the line, nobody offered his word, hey"

"No reason to get excited,"
The thief, he kindly spoke
"There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late"

All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants, too

Outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl
*buisness man there, drink my wine,
Come and take my herb."

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

So, how do you feel about US Immigration reform? While I've always been for reform I've noticed that people seem to focus on the fact that I am for sealing the border. Once they hear that they shut out all other info and assume they know how I feel about everything else. But with the current drug war going on in Mexico and the threat of terrorism I truly believe we should seal our borders. Now at the same time I think we need to lighten up on just about all other aspects of Immigration. I actually liked W's immigration plan and thought it was a shame he was torpedoed by his own party on that one.

Thoughts?

 

[Splarnst]

I'm a brand-new immigration attorney in the US. I'll let you know in a few months, but my view will undoubtedly be influenced by how it affects my bottom line, no matter how hard I try to avoid it. I will say that fear of ideological terrorism (i.e., not drug-related) seems to be an absurd reason to keep out millions of decent people looking for a better life. And I think the problem with drugs would be a lot better if we legalized marijuana and cut off a major source of the drug lords' financing, but that's not exactly an immigration issue.

 

[Levite]

This country was founded on immigration. If anyone had the right to build fences, seal borders, and kick people out, it was Native Americans, several centuries ago.

Besides, let's face it: immigrants, especially illegals, are doing a lot of the crap jobs that US citizens-- not even in this economy-- feel like they aren't interested in. Anyone pick any fruit lately who wasn't an immigrant-- probably an illegal one?

I say amnesty for all current illegal aliens, ease up on catching and tossing out illegal workers, and make it way, way easier to get a work visa to reside in the US.

If nothing else, maybe if we quit spending money tracking down, arresting, and deporting dirt-poor Latinos who are just trying to do an honest day's work and feed their families, we could spend those same resources securing ports, railroads, and other cargo hubs currently deeply vulnerable to attack, and maybe come up with some ways of improving security at airports so that we can all feel relatively safe, without having to show up three hours ahead of flights near the holidays, and take off half of our clothes so that the TSA can feel us all up before we can travel.

The current situation and prevailing attitude is not only a waste of money and other resources, but it treats an important part of our labor force with both needless cruelty and deep hypocrisy.

And, BTW, we also need to make it way, way easier for people to get political asylum in the US. It's awfully hard right now for people from oppressive countries to get amnesty if they're gay or transgender, or if they're fleeing misogynistic brutality, or if they're fleeing from arranged marriages and suchlike. That's got to stop.

What the hell happened to "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free?"

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Ok, here is another question: How much will immigration affect the next election? Will it affect your vote? Will it have an impact on the overall result or be sidelined in favor of other issues?

 

[Falvlun]

Besides, let's face it: immigrants, especially illegals, are doing a lot of the crap jobs that US citizens-- not even in this economy-- feel like they aren't interested in. Anyone pick any fruit lately who wasn't an immigrant-- probably an illegal one?

I agree with most of what you have written, but this is an argument that I have a hard time accepting. One of the major problems with the workforce in this country is that good paying jobs that do not require high skills or an education are disappearing. These are exactly the sorts of jobs that should be available for highschoolers and other young workers. I grew up in the apple country of Michigan, and where the highschool kids used to work in the orchards, all the jobs were claimed by the migrant workers, who would do it for cheaper.

In general, I don't think we want an immigration policy in order to fill these low paying, manual jobs. The jobs could be filled by Americans if the companies would be willing to hire them.

I say amnesty for all current illegal aliens, ease up on catching and tossing out illegal workers, and make it way, way easier to get a work visa to reside in the US.

I am for amnesty for all current workers-- those who have evidence of working here, without criminal activity. I just do not see a moral way out of this as it is now. But I think those walls need to close at some point. We announce amnesty, but then say "No more" after a certain window. We make the path towards citizenship and work visas streamlined and easier. Those who then come illegally afterwards should be shown no leniency in deportation, nor should the companies who hire them.

A new policy about citizenship via birth also needs to be reviewed, to eliminate the moral quandary regarding kids who are citizens, but not their parents.

 

[Tarheeler]

I'd like to see a lot changes made, but they couldn't be restricted to "immigration" reform alone.

For starters, I'd like to see open borders with only criminals and those who can be proven in a court of law to be threat restricted from entering the country.

I'd like to see a straighter path to citizenship for those who want to become Americans, and a solution that allows those who are already here a chance to do so as well. I think there should be some sort of penalty for breaking the law, but not outright refusal.

I think we need to stop making illegal aliens an unprotected class, and make sure everyone under US jurisdiction is fully protected by our laws.

But these changes would also greatly increase the burden on social programs and the infrastructures in local, state, and federal government. We would have to change how these programs are funded and administered in order to ensure thay are effective and available to all who need them.

We would also need to need to change the way we raise revenue, and create a system that ensures everyone, citizen and non-citizen alike, are paying to fund the government at all levels.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Not a lot of discussion going on here, is that because immigration isn't a major issue anymore or have we just talked the subject to death? The poll shows a few interesting results but not a lot of surprises yet.

About sealing the border though, so far I'm the only one for it. Question, would you be ok with sealing the border if it were easier to work and become a citizen or would you still think the border should remain porous? I think we should seal the border but only in conjunction with making it easier to enter the US.

 

[9Westy9]

I say stop them coming in at all. The UK has enough people here as it is. Although we do seem to have a skills shortage in some areas

UK jobs skills shortages must be taken seriously - Telegraph
Skills shortage is getting worse, bosses warn | Education | guardian.co.uk
Skills shortage holding back firms | Business

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I say stop them coming in at all. The UK has enough people here as it is. Although we do seem to have a skills shortage in some areas

UK jobs skills shortages must be taken seriously - Telegraph
Skills shortage is getting worse, bosses warn | Education | guardian.co.uk
Skills shortage holding back firms | Business

While a UK perception is interesting, we are in the North American Politics section and discussing US immigration. Question for you: what do you think of the immigration issue between the US and countries to the South of it? Are we too lax or too strict?

 

[9Westy9]

While a UK perception is interesting, we are in the North American Politics section and discussing US immigration. Question for you: what do you think of the immigration issue between the US and countries to the South of it? Are we too lax or too strict?

oh, whoops xD. I don't know a lot about the US's immigration policy or problems. Although from a few article I've just read you appear to have a problem with illegal immigrants. I think you might have to do something about them, maybe even kick them out. As for your immigration policy I like the fact that you have an upper limit. I think it's a good way to restrict and control the number of immigrants coming in. So I think you guys need stronger border control in regards to illegal immigration.

 

[Quiddity]

So, how do you feel about US Immigration reform? While I've always been for reform I've noticed that people seem to focus on the fact that I am for sealing the border. Once they hear that they shut out all other info and assume they know how I feel about everything else. But with the current drug war going on in Mexico and the threat of terrorism I truly believe we should seal our borders. Now at the same time I think we need to lighten up on just about all other aspects of Immigration. I actually liked W's immigration plan and thought it was a shame he was torpedoed by his own party on that one.

Thoughts?

Cartel networks are beyond border hopping over a fence. That is maybe 10% of their business. They use boats, airplanes, tunnels, etc. Unless we literally live in a bubble, they are so massive and powerful that they use methods that are impressive to say the least.

As to the immigration Reform, it's sort of in the backburner a tad; atleast until the elections and this Iran/middle eastern stuff mellows out.

I became a citizen in 2000 or so and it took nearly 20 years to become one.

As to what solution? For the ones already here, good luck, because you won't be able to round them up without accumulating a nifty cost. It's cheaper just to leave them and have them contribute.

As to the ones possibly coming in......improve our technology to the level of the cartels. They hire european chemists to create odorless drugs and boats that can go unseen. .....While we are barely trying to budget to get a dog to sniff.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Cartel networks are beyond border hopping over a fence. That is maybe 10% of their business. They use boats, airplanes, tunnels, etc. Unless we literally live in a bubble, they are so massive and powerful that they use methods that are impressive to say the least.

It's not the cartel's that are using the boarder for drug running, its the independants and their numbers are rather large. Still, I think the number of drug related crossings are pretty low statistically compared to worker crossings.

 

[Falvlun]

About sealing the border though, so far I'm the only one for it. Question, would you be ok with sealing the border if it were easier to work and become a citizen or would you still think the border should remain porous? I think we should seal the border but only in conjunction with making it easier to enter the US.

I don't think it's possible to seal the border, and it's a waste to pour money into something that's always gonna have holes.

What needs to happen is to make those holes look less inviting, and legal alternatives a better option.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I don't think it's possible to seal the border, and it's a waste to pour money into something that's always gonna have holes.

Oh its possible.

However, I agree that it's probably a waste of money. Might make an interesting tourist attraction though. :sarcastic

 

[Falvlun]

Oh its possible.

However, I agree that it's probably a waste of money. Might make an interesting tourist attraction though. :sarcastic

Oh, now I'm intrigued. Will we be able to see if from space? Also, how many American jobs will it create?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Oh, now I'm intrigued. Will we be able to see if from space? Also, how many American jobs will it create?

Prison labor of course. Sheriff Joe Arpaio will be in charge of the construction. He'll make them wear pink hard hats.

 

[Tarheeler]

Oh, now I'm intrigued. Will we be able to see if from space? Also, how many American jobs will it create?

Prison labor of course. Sheriff Joe Arpaio will be in charge of the construction. He'll make them wear pink hard hats.

I'm waiting for this to be championed in an upcoming Republican debate now.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I'm waiting for this to be championed in an upcoming Republican debate now.

Wait no longer...

Union Workers Replaced With Prison Labor Under Scott Walker's Collective Bargaining Law | ThinkProgress

 

[Alceste]

Ok, here is another question: How much will immigration affect the next election? Will it affect your vote? Will it have an impact on the overall result or be sidelined in favor of other issues?

I'm Canadian, but the Conservative Immigration Minister is enemy number two as far as I'm concerned, right after the Prime Minister. Kenney is an unrepentant Christian Zionist who uses his post to prohibit critics of Israel from entering the country. He also orchestrated a witch hunt against minorities by publishing pictures of a dozen or so "illegals" and soliciting the general public for "tips". I can only imagine how that's going - I have no doubt hundreds of completely innocent, completely legal first generation minorities are having their doors kicked in by zealous immigration officers acting on "tips" right this very minute. On top of that, he is responsible for a MASSIVE backlog. It took us over a year just for my fiance to be allowed to WORK in this country, let alone come and go without fear of deportation. When I moved to the UK, it took two days to get my Visa: long enough for the paperwork to arrive in the embassy, get stamped and be sent back to me. As far as immigration is concerned Canada is a total disgrace.