I'm Not a Tolerant Person

[DNB]

You're way off. For many people, it wasn't a choice. For many, it's a way to cope with rape, torture, homelessness, and food insecurity. It's absolutely a disease. And I will always, always stand up for them and help them on their path to sobriety, because they matter. Their lives matter.

Of course they matter, it's not a disease though, they stuck the needle in their arm, or the blow up their nose, or the bottle to their mouth. They caused the addiction, it did not come upon them out of nowhere. Many people have gone through the same trauma, and have not resorted to such pernicious methods of coping with it.

I'm not being uncompassionate as I would gladly do what I can to help them. But, again, my rhetoric would not be that they have a disease.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sounds like you enjoy it on some level.

Actually it's not something I normally partake in.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course they matter, it's not a disease though, they stuck the needle in their arm, or the blow up their nose, or the bottle to their mouth. They caused the addiction, it did not come upon them out of nowhere. Many people have gone through the same trauma, and have not resorted to such pernicious methods of coping with it.

I'm not being uncompassionate as I would gladly do what I can to help them. But, again, my rhetoric would not be that they have a disease.

You are being extremely uncompassionate as you are refusing to accept addiction for what it is.
Please leave them alone and let those who are actually schooled and trained for this delicate situation handle it. Addicts need compassion, love, understanding, and a non-judgmental attitude from those helping them. People who don't know or understand how addiction works and begins are likely to make things worse.
In mental health it doesn't matter what other people do or didn't do. You have the individual before you.

 

[Ashoka]

Of course they matter, it's not a disease though, they stuck the needle in their arm, or the blow up their nose, or the bottle to their mouth. They caused the addiction, it did not come upon them out of nowhere. Many people have gone through the same trauma, and have not resorted to such pernicious methods of coping with it.

I'm not being uncompassionate as I would gladly do what I can to help them. But, again, my rhetoric would not be that they have a disease.

Until you've walked in their shoes, you don't understand why and how they started using in the first place. Nobody wakes up and says, "Hey, I want to be addicted to heroin." My clients have all told me what a chore it is to be addicted, and that it isn't fun, and that they started using "just because I wanted to feel normal and not get sick." Any nurse that has worked in detox will tell you, what they are experiencing is a disease.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Until you've walked in their shoes, you don't understand why and how they started using in the first place. Nobody wakes up and says, "Hey, I want to be addicted to heroin." My clients have all told me what a chore it is to be addicted, and that it isn't fun, and that they started using "just because I wanted to feel normal and not get sick." Any nurse that has worked in detox will tell you, what they are experiencing is a disease.

I remember when my brother recovered from his opiate addiction. And how it started was the very typical case of being prescribed opiates for chronic pain, the tolerance to the meds builds, the dose is increased, and the addiction begins right under the doctor's nose.
What wasn't typical is he checked into a trashy motel and cold turkey quit. It was pretty ugly, and it times hard to tell if he was still alive or not. And after that he wouldn't even take Advil.

 

[DNB]

Actually it's not something I normally partake in.

Most people are repulsed by it, like myself. Why are you so desensitized to it?

 

[DNB]

You are being extremely uncompassionate as you are refusing to accept addiction for what it is.
Please leave them alone and let those who are actually schooled and trained for this delicate situation handle it. Addicts need compassion, love, understanding, and a non-judgmental attitude from those helping them. People who don't know or understand how addiction works and begins are likely to make things worse.
In mental health it doesn't matter what other people do or didn't do. You have the individual before you.

That's right, like I said, we try to help. But, telling them that they have a disease, if it ever gets brought up, is harming them.

 

[DNB]

Until you've walked in their shoes, you don't understand why and how they started using in the first place. Nobody wakes up and says, "Hey, I want to be addicted to heroin." My clients have all told me what a chore it is to be addicted, and that it isn't fun, and that they started using "just because I wanted to feel normal and not get sick." Any nurse that has worked in detox will tell you, what they are experiencing is a disease.

It's not a disease. If they never touched heroine, they wouldn't be sick. The same cannot be said about a person with a real disease.

 

[Ashoka]

That's right, like I said, we try to help. But, telling them that they have a disease, if it ever gets brought up, is harming them.

Have you ever witnessed a person withdrawing? Have you even had to clean up vomit or purge fluid? Have you ever had to comfort a person going through the throws of withdrawal? No?

Then you don't understand.

 

[Ashoka]

It's not a disease. If they never touched heroine, they wouldn't be sick. The same cannot be said about a person with a real disease.

You really need to visit a rehab sometime.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Most people are repulsed by it, like myself. Why are you so desensitized to it?

I am?
I'm not desensitized to it, I know it's generally a crap portrayal of sex, more of a caricature of it than anything. The lines are cheesy, the lines unnatural, it's really silly.
And I doubt most people are repulsed it, especially men. Add in the women who like it and I really doubt it's most people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You really need to visit a rehab sometime.

It probably would do him some good to sit in on a AA or NA meeting to met people and listen to their stories.

 

[Ashoka]

It probably would do him some good to sit in on a AA or NA meeting to met people and listen to their stories.

For sure.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's right, like I said, we try to help. But, telling them that they have a disease, if it ever gets brought up, is harming them.

You aren't trying to help. You won't accept what is medically practiced, you won't accept what happens, you won't accept their past and that addiction wasn't in their plans.
That's as helpful as the failed "willpower" assumptions about addiction.

 

[DNB]

Have you ever witnessed a person withdrawing? Have you even had to clean up vomit or purge fluid? Have you ever had to comfort a person going through the throws of withdrawal? No?

Then you don't understand.

Oh, you're saying that once addicted due to excessive abuse, then your chemistry changes, so that now you have an involuntarily biological reaction that causes vomiting, weakness, nausea, etc...
I still wouldn't necessarily call it a disease, almost more like an injury.
For example, is contracting AIDS a disease? No, it's a virus.

 

[DNB]

You really need to visit a rehab sometime.

I think that we're having semantic disagreements.

 

[DNB]

I am?
I'm not desensitized to it, I know it's generally a crap portrayal of sex, more of a caricature of it than anything. The lines are cheesy, the lines unnatural, it's really silly.
And I doubt most people are repulsed it, especially men. Add in the women who like it and I really doubt it's most people.

...you may be correct about it not being most people who are repulsed by porn. But, definitely a substantial amount, enough to raise an eyebrow to those who either endorse, or tolerate it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh, you're saying that once addicted due to excessive abuse, then your chemistry changes, so that now you have an involuntarily biological reaction that causes vomiting, weakness, nausea, etc...
I still wouldn't necessarily call it a disease, almost more like an injury.
For example, is contracting AIDS a disease? No, it's a virus.

AIDs is a disease and there is no AIDs virus. It's caused by the Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And here is the definition of a disease:
disease | Definition, Types, & Control

disease, any harmful deviation from the normal structural or functional state of an organism, generally associated with certain signs and symptoms and differing in nature from physical injury. A diseased organism commonly exhibits signs or symptoms indicative of its abnormal state.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Unfortunately, in the past, I did enough drugs and alcohol, and with my most of my friends, in order to have some insight on the matter.

Doesn't sound like you did, because you are showing you have no insights into it.
And keep in mind, you are debating against two people with professional experience in this field. I never would have been recommended to do recovery coaching if I had your views and opinions.