I'm against abortion myself, but....

[blackout]

I guess I just don't see it as a "voting" issue... to me it is simply a matter of "right" and "wrong".

That arson and kidnapping (for instance) are wrong never comes to the point that people will say "I don't personally want to set fire to a building.... but I support the rights of those who wish to do so".... I just don't get it.

SUPPORTING the rights would be going to get the gas can and the matches,
or actively driving said pregnant woman to the clinic.

What else are you going to do
besides ACTIVELY (forceably) STOPPING said individual
or calling in "the authorities" or jailing the person after the fact?!

(which then of course makes it a voting issue of law)

I just don't get it!

 

[DallasApple]

SUPPORTING the rights would be going to get the gas can and the matches,
or actively driving said pregnant woman to the clinic.

What else are you going to do
besides ACTIVELY (forceably) STOPPING said individual
or calling in "the authorities" or jailing the person after the fact?!

(which then of course makes it a voting issue of law)

I just don't get it!

Here let me explain it to you..Since its not a "voting issue" and in fact its legal.Women entering an abortion clinic should be kidnapped..and held against thier will untill the baby is born..Then they could find someone to adopt the child(as long as it was completely healthy and preferably white)..Then take out the womans uterus so she could never chose again..and set her free..All the while you must continue to pray for her for she will pay for eternity for what she was going to do.Adn then you wold be sainted.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Evelyn]

Here let me explain it to you..Since its not a "voting issue" and in fact its legal.Women entering an abortion clinic should be kidnapped..and held against thier will untill the baby is born..Then they could find someone to adopt the child(as long as it was completely healthy and preferably white)..Then take out the womans uterus so she could never chose again..and set her free..All the while you must continue to pray for her for she will pay for eternity for what she was going to do.Adn then you wold be sainted.

Blessings

Dallas

Spot on. :areyoucra

So much for having a civil adult conversation. Maybe that's just too hard for some people.

 

[Willamena]

Yes - I'd say that the government "allows" us to choose which toilet paper to use. If it is not "not allowed", then by definition it is "allowed".

Theoretically, they could use the power that has been reserved for the government (that of being able to legally take away your life, liberty or property) to "not allow" certain toilet papers. That would be a very sad day though. So, I wouldn't go so far as they have "no say", just that they don't exercize any "say".

I think you are trying to get into semantics a bit too much.

And I think you think you're living under fascism.

Or maybe you are.

 

[Draka]

I believe that life should be defended from CONCEPTION.

Nice, but that still doesn't help to supposedly categorize those of us who defend the choice up to a certain point and then feel it shouldn't be allowed. My point was to say that you can be both pro-choice and pro-life personally AND politically.

I hope you can recognize that some of us "can't see" because we have strong beliefs about the sanctity of life... and that some of us don't feel or desire to feel any sort of "superiority"... and I hope that you will forgive me and accept that I'm being honest and respect you enough not to "mince" words so to speak.

And there's plently of people who retain their political stance of pro-choice who also feel that all life is special and begins at conception. We just recognize that not all may feel as we do and that we are in no position to sit and judge those who see things differently.

I can't speak for others... but I have done this not to compare the things... but to illustrate that I didn't understand the hesitance to speak out on certain things (such as a crime) but "keep to myself" on this particular issue.

But what you fail to see is that for those who have had abortions, and those of us that feel for them, it comes off this way. No matter what you were trying to do,...it comes off as putting them on the same level and it is hurtful and offensive.

I don't generalize in this way.... I'm sure that some do and some don't... what is at issue for me is that procured abortion is the deliberate and direct killing, by whatever means it is carried out, of a human being in the initial phase of his or her existence, extending from conception to birth.

I can not think of one woman I have known or can imagine, going for an abortion just out of spite and malice. If such a woman existed I certainly wouldn't want her being responsible for carrying and bringing and possibly raising a child in this world anyway and it is probably best they had an abortion.

Again... I'm sure some do....and some don't...

Same as above pretty much.

I agree that it will be with her for eternity.... but I'm not sure of what you mean by the last sentence here.

To use such analogies and comparisons is like twisting an (already existent) emotional knife in the heart. It outwardly appears to be done out of malice and hate for the woman who has made such a decision or may make the decision sometime in her life.

It sounds like you are hurt... and I hope that I don't add to that... but I appreciate you discussing this with me.

I am not hurt, I am offended. I am sure that this thread, along with others in which the same tactics are used, has hurt some women in this forum by the callous way in which things are compared. As if they are no better than Hitler, a rapist, or what-have-you. Make a tough, emotionally draining, and controversial decision in your life and then have people constantly compare your actions to that of a pedophile and a rapist and see how it may affect you.

 

[blackout]

Spot on. :areyoucra

So much for having a civil adult conversation. Maybe that's just too hard for some people.

Well what is it YOU suggest?!
What is it you are suggesting?

Dallas WAS spot on BTW.
Some of the best points are made in the sarcasm of the absurd.

 

[blackout]

but I appreciate you discussing this with me.

Lucky you Draka!

I'm still waiting.

When people don't want to address valid points in this thread,
they revert to insults of your maturity and ability to converse.

Civil adult conversations do in fact seem harder and harder to come by.

 

[Evelyn]

Well what is it YOU suggest?!
What is it you are suggesting?

Dallas WAS spot on BTW.
Some of the best points are made in the sarcasm of the absurd.

It's a matter of opinion and subject to interpretation.

I'd be more then happy to continue, but it becomes increasingly difficult when you've already been painted with a broad brush.

Thanks anyways.

 

[DallasApple]

Whats uncivilized and un-adult if you ask me is anyone who can not undertand that drawing parallels or comparisons in any way of a woman havign an abortion to viscious criminals is offensive and hurtful .Then the snarky comments of "dont take it so personal" is also uncivilized and un-adult..In fact I know many children that have more sensitivity than that.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Scott1]

Nice, but that still doesn't help to supposedly categorize those of us who defend the choice up to a certain point and then feel it shouldn't be allowed. My point was to say that you can be both pro-choice and pro-life personally AND politically.

Fair enough.... but anyone who decides to have an abortion (at whatever stage of the baby's life it happens to be)is the deliberate and direct killing of a human being in the initial phase of his or her existence and I just don't call that "pro-life" in any way.

We just recognize that not all may feel as we do and that we are in no position to sit and judge those who see things differently.

And this is exactly why I brought up the example of other crimes.... I view abortion (again) as the deliberate and direct killing of a human being.... why in this case some in society don't want to "sit and judge" but in every other case of an attack on life or property it's not a problem to "sit and judge" makes no sense to me at all.

But what you fail to see is that for those who have had abortions, and those of us that feel for them, it comes off this way. No matter what you were trying to do,...it comes off as putting them on the same level and it is hurtful and offensive.

I can't apologize for the way that you choose to take it.... this issue has touched me personally (though obviously not in the same way as a woman) so I'm sorry if I don't feel the need to hide my opinions, but I feel I have the same rights as anyone else on this forum to present my views.

I can not think of one woman I have known or can imagine, going for an abortion just out of spite and malice.

My personal experience is different... many women I have known view the human life inside them as a "problem" and proclaim "I'm not ready" or "This is a bad time for me".... I don't view these opinions as anything other than selfish spite towards the human life inside them.

I am not hurt, I am offended.

Again... I can't apologize for honestly giving my opinions and the way you choose to receive them.

 

[blackout]

It's a matter of opinion and subject to interpretation.

I'd be more then happy to continue, but it becomes increasingly difficult when you've already been painted with a broad brush.

Thanks anyways.

Are you suggesting that I painted you with a broad brush?!?

I simply asked you a question.

I've been nothing but reasonable and nice in this thread
and I keep getting accused of all kinds of bizarre things
and then am relegated to the corner
as "difficult" and unworthy of response.

Now I'm a mind reader who paints with a broad brush
who makes conversation difficult.

I feel as if I've entered the twilight zone.

And just out of curiosity,
(and a crazy desire to communicate)
What is a matter of opinion and subject to interpretation?

(or perhaps we might just add "stupid" to the ever increasing list that (doesn't) describe me...)

sigh.

 

[SoyLeche]

And I think you think you're living under fascism.

Or maybe you are.

No - I think I'm just trying to come up with a set of descriptions that makes more sense. We can go with the "Pro-make-abortion-illegal" and "anti-make-abortion-illegal" if you prefer. I like the version that is shorter though.

 

[Evelyn]

Are you suggesting that I painted you with a broad brush?!?

Yup. You did agree to Dallas sarcasm and continued to vouch for it's truthfulness no?

BTW, it wasn't even a statement directed at you specifically but more to Dallas and you jumping in high fiving each other.

 

[DallasApple]

Yup. You did agree to Dallas sarcasm and continued to vouch for it's truthfulness no?

BTW, it wasn't even a statement directed at you specifically but more to Dallas and you jumping in high fiving each other.

So what?..She agrees with me and says so and somehow thats just plain wrong?And by the way...your comment to me was sarcasitc as well.At least my sarcasm showed the absurdity of whats being implied here..Your comment to me was a personal insult.

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Spot on. :areyoucra

So much for having a civil adult conversation. Maybe that's just too hard for some people.

This is sarcastic and a direct insult towards me.

I would lovingly suggest you check your log.. I think you have just about picked all my splinters out.

Dallas

 

[Mister_T]

***MOD POST***

Let's cool it with the personal remarks and keep things civil in here, please.

Thanks.​

 

[Booko]

I am not hurt, I am offended. I am sure that this thread, along with others in which the same tactics are used, has hurt some women in this forum by the callous way in which things are compared. As if they are no better than Hitler, a rapist, or what-have-you. Make a tough, emotionally draining, and controversial decision in your life and then have people constantly compare your actions to that of a pedophile and a rapist and see how it may affect you.

QFT.

And the exact reason why I so rarely even poke my head up in such "discussions."

 

[rheff78]

And yet no one has responded to my earlier post. What about those of us who are personally anti-abortion, support a right to choose for so long into the pregnancy, and then want a cut-off limit as to when an abortion can be allowed. Right now, legally, a woman can have an abortion at any time. Even if the child could be born naturally fully and healthy two weeks later. Some of us believe that once the fetus reached a stage of development inside the womb that they could survive outside the womb, that abortion should not be allowed. That the child should be born and perhaps put up for adoption.

Are we only pro-choice for 2 to 3 months and then pro-life for the 4th month on? Or what?

Pro-choice and pro-life ARE NOT black and white terms. You can certainly be both, both personally and politically. If certain people can't see that it is probably because they want to maintain their feeling of moral superiority over those who would support any allowance of choice when it comes to the subject of abortion.

Draka, that's the point I'm making. They ARE black and white. Even if you odn't support aboriotn in the later stages, you STILL support the choice to abort in the earlier stages. That still makes you pro-choice. What stage it's in doesn't matter. Bottom line, do you AT ANY STAGE in development support a woman's right to choose. That makes you pro-choice (or Pro-Allow-Abortion). Period. You can't have your cake and eat it too on this issue.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Pro-life, pro-choice.

It is as if people are searching other words because pro-abortion sounds too harsh or ...?

 

[SoyLeche]

Pro-life, pro-choice.

It is as if people are searching other words because pro-abortion sounds too harsh or ...?

No, it's because "pro-abortion" doesn't encompass the "pro-choice" stance all that well. Either "pro-allow-abortion" or "anti-make-abortion-illegal" fit much better.