Illegal Immigrants?

[Kathryn]

You still didn't answer my question. HOW are we to do this? Give us some ideas that will fix this. Like I said already. It's looks really good on paper but there isn't any way I can think of to practically pull this off.

So what's your application? I haven't heard any stellar ideas from anyone on how to handle this issue, including you. What are some of YOUR ideas about how or if we should approach the issue of illegal immigration? How do you think we should secure our border or keep tabs on who is here legally and who isn't? I am in favor of the Arizona law, so there's an idea I agree with. What ideas or legislation do you propose?

Oh, no, no. You're the one that knows that I have some mysterious 'political agenda'. Nice neocon speak there.

Nice way to avoid answering a direct question. But that doesn't surprise me. You have yet to answer ONE question that I've asked of you. It's your turn for awhile. When you answer a few of my questions, I'll get back to answering yours.

You tell us, Kathryn. What evil, diabolical position am I advocating since you're a mind-reader?

Very mature response there.

And speaking of not stooping to personal insults - every post you've directed at me has been chock full of diatribe insisting that I'm prejudiced against Hispanics, and insinuating that I'm racist. Nothing could be further from the truth, and both my words and life prove that. Your assertion that you're taking the high road in this tit for tat discourse is falling pretty flat.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

So what's your application? I haven't heard any stellar ideas from anyone on how to handle this issue, including you. What are some of YOUR ideas about how or if we should approach the issue of illegal immigration? How do you think we should secure our border or keep tabs on who is here legally and who isn't? I am in favor of the Arizona law, so there's an idea I agree with. What ideas or legislation do you propose?

I have no idea. I've stated that twice previously. It looks good on paper... no practical way to do it. You're the one that's been harping about National Security.

Naturalizing those already here? It'd be hard but it could be done.

Securing the border in favor of National Security when people can still go through perfectly legal channels and still come out of nowhere to kill their associates? No idea.

Nice way to avoid answering a direct question.

How very ironic.

But that doesn't surprise me. You have yet to answer ONE question that I've asked of you. It's your turn for awhile. When you answer a few of my questions, I'll get back to answering yours.

What questions have you asked me? What's my 'political agenda'? I'll answer that one for you. I have no idea. I have no political agenda. YOU'RE the one that said I had one. So, since you're such a Sally-In-The-Know, why you don't you tell me?

Very mature response there.

Are you serious??

And speaking of not stooping to personal insults - every post you've directed at me has been chock full of diatribe insisting that I'm prejudiced against Hispanics, and insinuating that I'm racist. Nothing could be further from the truth, and both my words and life prove that.

YOU. SUPPORT. LEGISLATION. AIMED. AT. ONE. SPECIFIC. RACE.

I never said you were a racist. I said the legislation is racist. You support it.

Your assertion that you're taking the high road in this tit for tat discourse is falling pretty flat.

Right. You're the one making direct personal attacks. I'm refraining from doing so by a sliver.

 

[idea]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/07/20100607mexico-bodies-recovered-from-mine.htmlhttp://www.education.com/schoolfinder/us/colorado/lakewood/dennison-elementary-school/

55 bodies recovered from old silver mine in Mexico (on the border)

...
He retracted that statement Monday, saying autopsies showed the organs were stabbed multiple times and essentially destroyed, but were never removed. Toxicology results found drugs in all six victims.

In the northern state of Durango, police reported the discovery of six decapitated men along with two heads.

...

this is the kind of stuff currently going on at the border...

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.6526/pub_detail.asp

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=11341

 

[Kathryn]

What questions have you asked me?

Are YOU serious? I'm not going to go back through my posts and re-ask the questions - but I've asked you many direct questions which you've just skimmed conveniently over.

I don't think you've READ my posts as much as you've skimmed them looking for snippets of phraseology that seems to bolster your selective allegations and beliefs about my position.

I think we've officially reached the bottom of the barrel when it comes to debating this topic between us.

 

[croak]

I think that's the main issue here (what I've highlighted). Not immigration itself. The Muslim culture is a degenerate one which does not reward work, truth, or diligence. They reward blind faith which leads to blind hatred, so that they can't possibly be productive in that environment. However, not all immigrants are bad.

I was wondering if someone would jump on that paragraph in order to insinuate that it was the fact that Muslims were there, regardless of their background or socio-economic group or anything, that was the reason the property was in shambles. And you've gone and done it. Wow. Since when are you such an expert on Muslim culture? And since when do all Muslims practice exactly the same culture without bearing on what part of the world they're from and what ethnic group they belong to? You'd be surprised how many truthful Muslims display great work-ethic and diligence, then.

Here's a good video:
[youtube]I2uWd9mhLL0[/youtube]
YouTube - mexicans in muslims out

I had a feeling that it wouldn't be much of a video, but I went ahead and watched it. Boy, was I not surprised. Apart from the generous use of expletives and a stereotypical view of either side, he wasn't afraid to let his hate-filled sentiments shine through.

In fact, I'm going to force myself to listen to it again to remember the extent of such.

Ah, here we go. Muslims should go back where they came from because, of course, nobody converts to Islam in America. Nono, they're all immigrants. So what if a family goes back further than many families of other religious faiths and persuasions? Well, I guess they should all go back where they came from. It's only fair.

And apparently Muslims don't do the work many poor Mexicans do? First of all, Mexican Muslims exist (no, really?). Second of all, how do you know what every single Muslim in America is doing? Third of all, let's say that all Muslims don't do that kind of work. What's the problem then? That they should be doing work that only people desperate for work would do? I find it sad that the individual in the video's lumping all Mexicans into a stereotype. How about Mexicans that obtain Ph.D's and work in government?

My point is that I can't even begin to comprehend how you find that to be a good video. Just... no. It also seems to infringe on 5.(a) of the TOS, but I'm not totally sure.

I myself believe that no people are illegal based on where they were born, but when it comes down to it, you can make objective judgements on which immigrants are better than others. I believe we should not be politically correct and not shy away from cultural critique or assessment of values when we allow immigrants to come here.

So basically, Mexicans in, Muslims out? That's what the video says.

Islam in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Interesting reading.

 

[Internecivus Raptus]

What is so gosh darn bad about them?

They decrease the percentage of the workforce that can vote. Part of the reason that work conditions and quality of life were so horrific at the beginning of the 20th century was that a significant percentage of the workforce were either black and unable to vote or unnaturalized immigrants and unable to vote. This shifted the political spectrum of available voters to the right, and caused the miserable conditions that existed then to continue until 1924, when the percentage of nonvoting workers began to steadily decline.

If we're going to let the illegals stay and work, then we need to legalize them ASAP so they can vote.

 

[Smoke]

Here's a good video:
[youtube]I2uWd9mhLL0[/youtube]
YouTube - mexicans in muslims out

That made me laugh. He reminds me of my grandfather, which is nothing to brag about. My grandfather said the same sorts of things, but about blacks and Mexicans.

And that's definitely my grandfather's vocabulary and delivery.

 

[Rakhel]

Just for the fun of it.
Someone my father introduced me to

[youtube]ECeI2BWIAB4[/youtube]
YouTube - EARL PITTS Exposes Federal Immigration Law HYPOCRISY !!

 

[justbehappy]

I haven't bee on a while and I will try to get on later to reply to people, but I just wanted to get on for a few minutes to post this.
Yesterday, I went with a friend to pick up a card she needs to start her job at a power plant because her car was in the shop and she needed a ride. It was hot outside, so I went in with her. When we got in the room, the receptionist was walking around, the waiting room bringing things back and forth and she greated us very kindly. I thought to myself "she's a very nice woman."
A few minutes later, though, a Spanish woman walks through the door with her maybe 4 year old daughter. As she was walking through the door, she was speaking to her daughter in Spanish.
At this point, the lady had not yet said on word to the receptionist. The only thing the receptionis could perceive about her was that she was spanish. As soon as she closed the door, the receptionist rudely goes "are you a citizen?" She replied "yes" very confused. I saw the receptionist roll here eyes, and with the most disgusting, disrespectful face in the world she goes "of the United States?" The woman looked very hurt and sad and again said "yes." The receptionist again rolled her eyes and again rudely said "well I'm gonna have to see your papers."
The lady was in fact legal, and I listened to the two's conversation, now at the desk. She had a heavy accent, and a couple times she had to ask the lady to repeat what she was saying, but overall she was able to communicate with her. The receptionist was using big words and speaking fast, though, and this was probably why she had to repeat a few things. I honestly think she was doing this on purpose, but I won't judge that I guess. The receptionists was frustrated the whole time anyways and all of a sudden just busts out loudly to the whole room - LISTEN MAM, YOU EITHER NEED TO LEARN SOME ENGLISH OR GET SOMEBODY IN HERE WHO DOES. HERE, TAKE THIS, IT'S IN SPANISH (she said that like she was talking to a Kindergartener) AND COME BACK IF YOU CAN FIND AN ENGLISH FRIEND. She then rolled her eyes once again and walked away from the lady.

This was the absolute ultimate sign of horrible professionalism, disrespect, and above all racism. She judged the lady because she was Spanish and gave her no respect because she came from another country. She treated her as if she wasn't even worthy of being called a human being.
For anyone out there that doesn't think racism exists in this country anymore, think again.
And, the Arizona Immigration Law IS a racist law and it DOES target Hispanics

 

[Kathryn]

Justbehappy, was the Hispanic woman applying for a job? What was the context of their conversation? Or did the receptionist greet her with "Are you a citizen?" I mean, that sounds like an odd way to START a conversation.

Regardless, you should report that receptionist's behavior to upper management. She is not allowed by law to single out certain ethnic groups and ask if they are citizens - she must ask EVERYONE the status of the legal right to work in the United States.

She is exposing the company to a possible lawsuit and upper managment should know about this danger. I doubt that she is enacting the company's policy - sounds to me like she's enacting her own ignorant racism.

Speaking of racial generalizations, however, she sounds REALLY stupid - most employers greatly value LEGAL immigrants - they tend to have a very strong work ethic and are often much more dependable than other groups of workers. I worked in the staffing industry for years in Texas and legal immigrants were always a precious commodity to most local employers.

 

[Rio Sabinas]

justbehappy,
(IMHO)The Arizona law targets Hispanics because they are being overwhelmed by illegal immigrants and drug trafficking from Mexico. I truly believe they would much rather let the Feds take care of it, "IF" the Govt. would step up & actually do it. (meaning enforcing fedral law)

Racism as a prime factor?....mabey we should look at what portion of Arizona is Hispanic then compare it to what portion of the state supports the law.

I'm certainly not trying to say racism is not a problem in this country. My own ethnic background contains Native Americans & we all know how that story goes. So here's my offer to you...
I'm appointing you Govenor of Arizona. How will you solve your border problems with Mexico?

 

[Rakhel]

In NYC you will find many legal and illegal immigrants who happen to be quite fluent in English. They run just about every corner store on the block. from the local general store to the laundry mat.
On one particular occasion, a non-immigrant had walked into one of these stores and started to demand that they show him where an item was.The owner kept saying, in a thick Arabic accent, they didn't have it only to have the customer demand that they did. It had gone on so long that finally the store owner yelled "What? You don't understand English?"

 

[justbehappy]

So... if the pregnancy may kill the mother (such as a ectopic pregnancy) it's just too bad? This is justified how exactly?

This is the only case I see it would ever see it as okay in.
And I wouldn't call this type abortion, as abortion is voluntary termination, and the women in these cases would see it as necessity. I'm not sure if there is an actua term for it, but I wouldn't use it with the mainstream definition of abortion.

 

[justbehappy]

They decrease the percentage of the workforce that can vote.

When only abou 55% of the country's own citizens vote anyways? Excuse me if I'm off, but it's somewhere around there

Part of the reason that work conditions and quality of life were so horrific at the beginning of the 20th century was that a significant percentage of the workforce were either black and unable to vote or unnaturalized immigrants and unable to vote. This shifted the political spectrum of available voters to the right, and caused the miserable conditions that existed then to continue until 1924, when the percentage of nonvoting workers began to steadily decline.

And the fact that they can't vote directly contributes to the working conditions? It may be a factor, but I'm sure it isn't the main factor.

If we're going to let the illegals stay and work, then we need to legalize them ASAP so they can vote.

Agreed.

 

[justbehappy]

Justbehappy, was the Hispanic woman applying for a job? What was the context of their conversation? Or did the receptionist greet her with "Are you a citizen?" I mean, that sounds like an odd way to START a conversation.

She indeed started the conversation that way. And she was there to get a card for a job she had already been hired for - same as my friend. They're called TWIC cards here, and they're for certain jobs (not sure which).

Regardless, you should report that receptionist's behavior to upper management. She is not allowed by law to single out certain ethnic groups and ask if they are citizens - she must ask EVERYONE the status of the legal right to work in the United States.

Three men came in before the lady and between us. She was just as kind to them as she was to us. I'm sure what infomation she asked them for but it certainly was no in the same manner as the lady.

She is exposing the company to a possible lawsuit and upper managment should know about this danger. I doubt that she is enacting the company's policy - sounds to me like she's enacting her own ignorant racism.

Speaking of racial generalizations, however, she sounds REALLY stupid - most employers greatly value LEGAL immigrants - they tend to have a very strong work ethic and are often much more dependable than other groups of workers. I worked in the staffing industry for years in Texas and legal immigrants were always a precious commodity to most local employers.[/quote]

I agree. They are very hard workers.
I have a feeling that this attitude comes from her having to deal with people that are potentially illegal a lot - but it is sad that she has formed such a bias and is now clearly racist because of it.

 

[justbehappy]

justbehappy,
(IMHO)The Arizona law targets Hispanics because they are being overwhelmed by illegal immigrants and drug trafficking from Mexico. I truly believe they would much rather let the Feds take care of it, "IF" the Govt. would step up & actually do it. (meaning enforcing fedral law)

Racism as a prime factor?....mabey we should look at what portion of Arizona is Hispanic then compare it to what portion of the state supports the law.

I'm certainly not trying to say racism is not a problem in this country. My own ethnic background contains Native Americans & we all know how that story goes. So here's my offer to you...
I'm appointing you Govenor of Arizona. How will you solve your border problems with Mexico?

I was actually about to explain this before you "appointed me Governor" lol, but I honestly do not know exactly how I would solve things. I would need to gain a lot more knowledge on the exact problems of the state, what people want fixed, and research of laws and law enforcement that has worked in the past or in different places for different things.
But I do know that I would not put in place many of the provisions of that law.
It says that no evidence is needed to bring someone in for questioning - only suspicion. And if you pass someone you suspect to be illegal, and do not ask them for their papers or take them to the station, etc. you (the offier) are commitng a crime.
Now as a cop, you see 5 white men in a truck and in the truck behind it is 5 Hispanic men. Who are you going to pull over?

 

[Rakhel]

TWIC here means "Transportation Worker Identification Card." It allows truckers to enter ports so they can remove from those port what needs to be removed. Now, if your friend is a trucker and has to transport certain things into and out of the power plant it makes sense for her to get a TWIC card. Unless it means something where you're from.

 

[justbehappy]

TWIC here means "Transportation Worker Identification Card." It allows truckers to enter ports so they can remove from those port what needs to be removed. Now, if your friend is a trucker and has to transport certain things into and out of the power plant it makes sense for her to get a TWIC card. Unless it means something where you're from.

I belive that's what it means, but I also think anyone that works at a power plant has to get one. Here, it is the most common job for middle class families to have.

 

[Engyo]

TWIC here means "Transportation Worker Identification Card." It allows truckers to enter ports so they can remove from those port what needs to be removed. Now, if your friend is a trucker and has to transport certain things into and out of the power plant it makes sense for her to get a TWIC card. Unless it means something where you're from.

The TWIC is required to enter any facility deemed to have significance from a Homeland Security point of view. I need mine to enter a number of refineries and chemical plants here in the SE Texas area. I'm not removing anything except engineering information, but I still need the card to enter.

 

[Rakhel]

The TWIC is required to enter any facility deemed to have significance from a Homeland Security point of view. I need mine to enter a number of refineries and chemical plants here in the SE Texas area. I'm not removing anything except engineering information, but I still need the card to enter.

Ok. thanks. The only way I was familiar with it is that applied to my husband's industry as a tuck driver