If you had proof of God.

[That Dude]

Yup, someone started a thread a lot like this one and asked, (Atheist what if?) but I believe they did it wrong.
The right way to ask that question in these particular forums I believe would be as follows.

If you had (personal) knowledge of Gods existence and the only proof you had couldn't be explained to anyone else with out sounding like you pulled it out of your butt and that the God in question was the Christian God, that pretty much everyone here hates.. The God Conservatives and Fundamentalist worship and Liberals are intolerable of in their tolerant world.

Would you then keep the information to yourself that God exist?

 

[Buttercup]

Yup, someone started a thread a lot like this one and asked, (Atheist what if?) but I believe they did it wrong.
The right way to ask that question in these particular forums I believe would be as follows.

If you had (personal) knowledge of Gods existence and the only proof you had couldn't be explained to anyone else with out sounding like you pulled it out of your butt and that the God in question was the Christian God, that pretty much everyone here hates.. The God Conservatives and Fundamentalist worship and Liberals are intolerable of in their tolerant world.

Would you then keep the information to yourself that God exist?

Haven't there been many, many people since the dawn of time who have claimed they had personal visits or messages from God? Isn't that how the bible was inspired?

If, hypothetically, I had a visit from god in my living room, or he/she/it personally talked to me, I definitely couldn't keep it secret. I'd be very reluctant to share it widely though. Why should anyone believe me? I certainly wouldn't condemn or criticize them if they didn't believe me.

 

[That Dude]

Haven't there been many, many people since the dawn of time who have claimed they had personal visits or messages from God? Isn't that how the bible was inspired?

If, hypothetically, I had a visit from god in my living room, or he/she/it personally talked to me, I definitely couldn't keep it secret. I'd be very reluctant to share it widely though. Why should anyone believe me? I certainly wouldn't condemn or criticize them if they didn't believe me.

Thats funny you use those words. "I certainly wouldn't condemn"

Let us expand on the idea in the OP.
The idea is an expansion of knowledge.
People are constantly growing and we use examples to describe that growth like, "Dont judge me on my past, I dont live there any more"
Growth normally comes from revelations we've had that expand our way of thinking in one direction or another. We are the sum total of our experiences.
Don't you think that meeting God would be one heck of an experience?
And in that experience you would come to realize that Heaven and Hell aren't concepts but reality.

Would you feel any guilt at letting people go to hell because you didn't bother to explain what you knew?

 

[LuisDantas]

If you had (personal) knowledge of Gods existence

Then I would not be an atheist, I suppose.

and the only proof you had couldn't be explained to anyone else with out sounding like you pulled it out of your butt and that the God in question was the Christian God, that pretty much everyone here hates..

What? That is not true. Hardly "everyone". We have our share of Christians and Bahais, for instance. And even among atheists, many of us don't believe in his existence enough to hate him either.

The God Conservatives and Fundamentalist worship and Liberals are intolerable of in their tolerant world.

But that is by definition a false God.

Would you then keep the information to yourself that God exist?

A God that I know for a fact to be false?

I would probably be too worried about my mental health to care. So I guess not. I would tell my psychiatrist.

Assuming, of course, that I could not destroy him, which I understand that I probably could at a moment's notice by reflecting on his attributes.

Yeah, I know that sounds odd. But it is a direct consequence of the parameters of your premise. A fire and brimstone God that I know personally is one that I have both the duty and the power to destroy without bothering others if I can help it.

Quite frankly, it is also one that can hardly defend himself from me. Literally just a sick delusion to be dissolved away. I have done way more impressive when I needed to.

 

[Desert Snake]

This is the fallacy of atheistic ideas in general, they suppose a stance that is 'unchangeable' usually, but this itself is an indication that the person has dug themselves in regarding a belief, as opposed to a proven fact, hence the relentless and frantic effort of self confirmation.
I wonder if the biggest fear of an atheist writer would be finding religion, it would take a lot to come out with the sequel, 'guess I was wrong folks'.

 

[Buttercup]

Thats funny you use those words. "I certainly wouldn't condemn"

Let us expand on the idea in the OP.
The idea is an expansion of knowledge.
People are constantly growing and we use examples to describe that growth like, "Dont judge me on my past, I dont live there any more"
Growth normally comes from revelations we've had that expand our way of thinking in one direction or another. We are the sum total of our experiences.
Don't you think that meeting God would be one heck of an experience?
And in that experience you would come to realize that Heaven and Hell aren't concepts but reality.

Would you feel any guilt at letting people go to hell because you didn't bother to explain what you knew?

I stand by my first statement. I could tell everyone exactly what I experienced but I wouldn't expect everyone to understand nor agree with MY experience. Do you think it's fair that God would give me a personal experience but not others? And do you think it's fair that people had to believe MY experience or go to hell?

How would you feel if I told you I saw a ghost?

 

[LuisDantas]

No idea of what you are talking about, Disciple.

 

[Desert Snake]

No idea of what you are talking about, Disciple.

It's regarding the OP. I don't suppose as much faith in people to admit a change in religious belief especially if they have been staunch proponents of some idea.

 

[LuisDantas]

But the OP isn't atheistic at all. If anything, it is a strawman. But more like a satire or even a caricature.

 

[ChristineES]

Yup, someone started a thread a lot like this one and asked, (Atheist what if?) but I believe they did it wrong.
The right way to ask that question in these particular forums I believe would be as follows.

If you had (personal) knowledge of Gods existence and the only proof you had couldn't be explained to anyone else with out sounding like you pulled it out of your butt and that the God in question was the Christian God, that pretty much everyone here hates.. The God Conservatives and Fundamentalist worship and Liberals are intolerable of in their tolerant world.

Would you then keep the information to yourself that God exist?

If I had proof of God, then I could not have faith. You don't need faith if you have proof.

 

[Willamena]

Yup, someone started a thread a lot like this one and asked, (Atheist what if?) but I believe they did it wrong.
The right way to ask that question in these particular forums I believe would be as follows.

If you had (personal) knowledge of Gods existence and the only proof you had couldn't be explained to anyone else with out sounding like you pulled it out of your butt and that the God in question was the Christian God, that pretty much everyone here hates.. The God Conservatives and Fundamentalist worship and Liberals are intolerable of in their tolerant world.

Would you then keep the information to yourself that God exist?

My answer is the same: Why keep it secret? Are you embarrassed?

I hope not: it's silly to be embarrassed about something you have no control over, your knowledge.

 

[That Dude]

Then I would not be an atheist, I suppose.

You suppose correct... duh.

What? That is not true. Hardly "everyone". We have our share of Christians and Bahais, for instance. And even among atheists, many of us don't believe in his existence enough to hate him either.

Must be with yourself at least.
Because you kind of proved it by being an ******* with your response and if it isn't that you meant to be an ******* then I would have to say that there aren't to many things you get right off the bat.

But that is by definition a false God.

There's a definition for what I described? Oddly enough I didn't see that coming.
Must be a personal thing with you?

A God that I know for a fact to be false?

I would probably be too worried about my mental health to care. So I guess not. I would tell my psychiatrist.

Assuming, of course, that I could not destroy him, which I understand that I probably could at a moment's notice by reflecting on his attributes.

Yeah, I know that sounds odd. But it is a direct consequence of the parameters of your premise. A fire and brimstone God that I know personally is one that I have both the duty and the power to destroy without bothering others if I can help it.

Quite frankly, it is also one that can hardly defend himself from me. Literally just a sick delusion to be dissolved away. I have done way more impressive when I needed to.

Yes, I see. It is a personal thing with you. You're an *******.

 

[LuisDantas]

Come on. You can't seriously expect me to meet the Fire and Brimstone God and fail to slay him on the spot, now can you?

Any decent person would do the same.

You are blaming me for the weakness and unworthiness of your god concept.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Thats funny you use those words. "I certainly wouldn't condemn"

Let us expand on the idea in the OP.
The idea is an expansion of knowledge.
People are constantly growing and we use examples to describe that growth like, "Dont judge me on my past, I dont live there any more"
Growth normally comes from revelations we've had that expand our way of thinking in one direction or another. We are the sum total of our experiences.
Don't you think that meeting God would be one heck of an experience?
And in that experience you would come to realize that Heaven and Hell aren't concepts but reality.

Would you feel any guilt at letting people go to hell because you didn't bother to explain what you knew?

If I found evidence of a God different than my own, specifically a God that punishes people for simply not believing in him, I would keep my experience secret and do my best to hide this God from everyone. For one thing, he would fall under the definition of a tyrant.

And for another, if it is true that people who never had a chance to hear about God (babies, severely mentally handicapped, very foreign and secluded people, etc.) will be allowed in heaven for they had no chance, then there is no point in trying to tell someone, right?

If I had an experience that lead me to believe in specifically the Christian God, there are these scenarios I can imagine:

1) Those who never heard the truth are still allowed in heaven.

And considering how you said that if I describe this experience to anyone, it'll sound like BS, the best option would to NOT tell anyone. If they aren't aware of the truth, there is a 100% guarantee they will enter paradise. If I told them, there's a chance that they will not believe me, and so there is a chance that they might not believe me and then go to hell.

2) Those who never heard the truth aren't allowed in heaven either.

I never met a Christian who believed that. If it is that way, God is not only a tyrant, but an unfair tyrant.


Can I ask you two things:

1) Why exactly should people be thrown in hell if they do not believe in God? Why exactly is non-belief that big of a deal? To me, it reveals one of two things: God is an attention-horse, or that the religion teaching that stuff is simply deceiving people into it.

2) If I keep my mouth shut and give nobody a chance to hear the truth, they are automatically going to heaven. But if I tell someone, it spoils their chances to enter heaven. In that case, why isn't keeping silent of the word the better option?

 

[That Dude]

I stand by my first statement. I could tell everyone exactly what I experienced but I wouldn't expect everyone to understand nor agree with MY experience. Do you think it's fair that God would give me a personal experience but not others? And do you think it's fair that people had to believe MY experience or go to hell?

How would you feel if I told you I saw a ghost?

So, what you're trying to say is, that you would be understanding of people who didn't believe you?

I kind of got that the first time. Still didn't even come close to answering the question I asked you. Not even in the vicinity of halfway to close.

If you knew that the information you had could keep people from going to hell would you feel guilty for keeping it from them?
Yes or No.

The only way you are condemning people is by NOT telling them what you know.
Your personal insight on weather or not you hold it against them for not believing you has nothing to do with it.

 

[That Dude]

Come on. You can't seriously expect me to meet the Fire and Brimstone God and fail to slay him on the spot, now can you?

Any decent person would do the same.

You are blaming me for the weakness and unworthiness of your god concept.

No, Im blaming you for your judgmental attitude.
Fire and brimstone comes from your insight as the person you are and not from any where else.
And if you think you need to quote scripture to prove your point, then you're not seeing the OP in what it was meant to be but rather looking to explain how you yourself see God and making a conscious effort to force that explanation onto someone else.
Which currently makes you no better then the Fundamentalist you're trying so desperately to describe in your God ideas.

 

[Buttercup]

So, what you're trying to say is, that you would be understanding of people who didn't believe you?

I kind of got that the first time. Still didn't even come close to answering the question I asked you. Not even in the vicinity of halfway to close.

If you knew that the information you had could keep people from going to hell would you feel guilty for keeping it from them?
Yes or No.

I would tell anyone who respected me enough to maybe believe me. I already told you that.

You didn't answer my question. I asked you if it's fair for god to give ME an experience and not them? And, is it fair for god to condemn people to hell because they didn't believe MY experience. Do you see how insane your premise is? Why don't they get an experience too? Why should they have to believe my experience?

 

[Desert Snake]

But the OP isn't atheistic at all. If anything, it is a strawman. But more like a satire or even a caricature.

Well, when the OP uses those descriptors I didn't assume some monster. Those terms here in the u.s. don't really mean that the religious ideas associated with them are 'fire and brimstone' type stuff, if anything that would be more traditional denominations, but those aren't really related to those terms he used.
What I mean is that 'staunch Catholic' for example (like a traditional Catholic), does not have a connotation with 'conservative' here.
It's like two separate terms.

 

[That Dude]

If I found evidence of a God different than my own, specifically a God that punishes people for simply not believing in him, I would keep my experience secret and do my best to hide this God from everyone. For one thing, he would fall under the definition of a tyrant.

And for another, if it is true that people who never had a chance to hear about God (babies, severely mentally handicapped, very foreign and secluded people, etc.) will be allowed in heaven for they had no chance, then there is no point in trying to tell someone, right?

If I had an experience that lead me to believe in specifically the Christian God, there are these scenarios I can imagine:

1) Those who never heard the truth are still allowed in heaven.

And considering how you said that if I describe this experience to anyone, it'll sound like BS, the best option would to NOT tell anyone. If they aren't aware of the truth, there is a 100% guarantee they will enter paradise. If I told them, there's a chance that they will not believe me, and so there is a chance that they might not believe me and then go to hell.

2) Those who never heard the truth aren't allowed in heaven either.

I never met a Christian who believed that. If it is that way, God is not only a tyrant, but an unfair tyrant.

I dont know what to say. You just pulled a bunch of stuff out of your butt there and kind of invited me to engage you in your butt words.
Are you prompting me to correct you?
Because the only correction I have is for you to not project an entire belief system thats been pulled straight from your *** onto the OP.

You totally opted not to answer the question but instead infested a thread with a post about stuff that has nothing to do with the question asked.

Can I ask you two things:

Sure, as long as it's not crazy and expecting me to explain the entire concept of Fundamental Christianity.
Because that would just take way to long.

1) Why exactly should people be thrown in hell if they do not believe in God? Why exactly is non-belief that big of a deal? To me, it reveals one of two things: God is an attention-horse, or that the religion teaching that stuff is simply deceiving people into it.

So the answer to this question is simple but it's steering away from the OP entirely so you can hijack this thread. You do that often?
The answer is:
People separate themselves from God, not the other way around.

2) If I keep my mouth shut and give nobody a chance to hear the truth, they are automatically going to heaven. But if I tell someone, it spoils their chances to enter heaven. In that case, why isn't keeping silent of the word the better option?

From the rantings above.. I see.
So you would opt to ignore God entirely so you could keep your own views of him?

 

[LuisDantas]

No, Im blaming you for your judgmental attitude.

Then you should consider not asking me to show it.

Fire and brimstone comes from your insight as the person you are and not from any where else.

Allow me to remind you:

(...)

If you had (personal) knowledge of Gods existence and the only proof you had couldn't be explained to anyone else with out sounding like you pulled it out of your butt and that the God in question was the Christian God, that pretty much everyone here hates.. The God Conservatives and Fundamentalist worship and Liberals are intolerable of in their tolerant world.

Call me judgmental all you want, but I'm simply staying true to the parameters that you established in the OP. The God that was created to be vanquished.

I truly don't know what else you could reasonably expect.

And if you think you need to quote scripture to prove your point, then you're not seeing the OP in what it was meant to be but rather looking to explain how you yourself see God and making a conscious effort to force that explanation onto someone else.

So you agree with me? Thanks.

Which currently makes you no better then the Fundamentalist you're trying so desperately to describe in your God ideas.

Indeed, I am no better than a Fundamentalist when I believe in his conception of God.

Which is exactly why I must slay the freaking thing on sight. I make a very good show of it too. Wish you were here to see.