Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
If we have our paradise on earth.Like Jehovah's Witnesses believe.Why 1 Thessalonians 4:17?And Revelation 21:1?
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If we have our paradise on earth.Why 1Thess 4:17?And Revelation 21:1?
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
" 1 Thessalonians 4:17"and "Revelation 21:1"If we have our paradise on earth. Like Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Why 1 Thessalonians 4:17?And Revelation 21:1?
The above verses are not from Yeshua Messiah, I understand, please.
DOUAY-RHEIMS Red Letter Bible* has not colored them in red , which means that it is neither written by Yeshua Messiah nor authored by him, I understand. Right?
It is not, therefore, the teachings of Yeshua Messiah, one gathers, so why Jesus be accused that it is from him and take spiritual guidance from these verses, please? Right?
Regards
_____________
*The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 is about a heavenly hope for people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18; Revelation 2:10If we have our paradise on earth.Like Jehovah's Witnesses believe.Why 1 Thessalonians 4:17?And Revelation 21:1?
In 1st Thess, chapter 4 is about Jesus 'spiritual' brothers such as mentioned at Matthew 25:40.
Remember: when Jesus was caught away in the clouds (Acts 1:9) was in connection to his resurrection.
This is because ' flesh....' (physical) can Not inherit the kingdom of heaven - 1 Corinthians 15:50
So, chapter 4 of 1st Thess. is about the ones mentioned at Revelation 20:6 being resurrected to Heaven.
Revelation 21:1 is in connection to 2 Peter 3:13. New in the sense the Old troubles forgotten - Isaiah 65:17
The ' sea ' mentioned is Not the literal ocean, but the restless sea of wicked mankind being No more - Isaiah 57:20
The figurative 'tent 'dwelling of God is with: MANKIND - according to Revelation 21:3 - Not angel kind.
God will have Jesus step in and even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
Earth and its people will be happy-and-healthy as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Please read the first verse of Revelation 1 because it says a Revelation by Jesus Christ...... (<- aka Messiah)
1st Thess. is part of the ALL Scripture being inspired by God - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
So, whether it is from a book of Thessalonians, Timothy or the book of Revelation God is the Author.
Also, remember the Bible holds out two (2) hopes: One heavenly and One earthly.If we have our paradise on earth.Like Jehovah's Witnesses believe.Why 1 Thessalonians 4:17?And Revelation 21:1?
Some called to Heaven to govern with Jesus as kings and priests - Revelation 5:9-10.
As Kings they will take care of governmental duties towards the humble meek who inherit the Earth.
As Priests they will take care of spiritual responsibilities towards the humble meek who will inherit the Earth.
A beautiful paradisical Earth as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
This is why Jesus said to pray for God's Kingdom to come..... ( thy kingdom come )
We are Not instructed to pray to be 'taken away' to the kingdom, nor pray to be 'taken up' to the kingdom.....
Rather, for the kingdom to come and God's Will, His purpose to be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven.
In Heaven there is No pollution, No crime, No violence. No war, No sickness, No death in Heaven.
So, we are praying for those same heavenly conditions to come here and exist right here on Earth.
Jesus will bring those heavenly conditions to exist right here on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
Jesus will bring HEALING to earth's nations - Revelation 22:2
This is why we are all invited to pray to God for Jesus to 'come' ! ( Not the other way around )
nPeace
Veteran Member
@URAVIP2ME Very well explained brother.
I like those very good points you made.
1) The tent of God is with mankind, or men. Not angel-kind, or angels.
I wonder when God comes down to earth to dwell, according to the claim of those in Christendom, who will be dwelling with the angels. Does Christendom's adherents believe the angels would be running heaven, or will God run heaven from earth. Or will heaven be deserted.
Sad that those in Christendom don't want the truth according to scripture, but want their ears tickled, and so listen to false teachings.
2) Death will be no more, nor tears and pain applies to mankind - Adam's offspring. Angel's aren't dying.
The new earth will not experience those things under God's kingdom.
Very good.
I like those very good points you made.
1) The tent of God is with mankind, or men. Not angel-kind, or angels.
I wonder when God comes down to earth to dwell, according to the claim of those in Christendom, who will be dwelling with the angels. Does Christendom's adherents believe the angels would be running heaven, or will God run heaven from earth. Or will heaven be deserted.
Sad that those in Christendom don't want the truth according to scripture, but want their ears tickled, and so listen to false teachings.
2) Death will be no more, nor tears and pain applies to mankind - Adam's offspring. Angel's aren't dying.
The new earth will not experience those things under God's kingdom.
Very good.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Revelation 1:1 is also neither spoken by Yeshua- the Jewish Messiah nor authored by him nor written by him as it has not been colored red in the Red Letter Bible by:
KJV
https://wn.elib.com/Library/Religious/KJV/NR/NewTrl_rev.htm
or
Douay Rheims
The Apocalypse of St. John
and or
Messianic Judaism people
The Apocalypse of St. John
Right?
Will one correct oneself, please? Right?
Regards
nPeace
Veteran Member
That is correct. John is narrating. He says.. [This is] the revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
God is the one who authorized it.
@URAVIP2ME said...
Please read the first verse of Revelation 1 because it says a Revelation by Jesus Christ...... (<- aka Messiah)
1st Thess. is part of the ALL Scripture being inspired by God - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
So, whether it is from a book of Thessalonians, Timothy or the book of Revelation God is the Author.
That is correct. The Revelation John is receiving is from Jesus Christ, which God gave, and God authored the writing.
Unfortunately, the references you linked show that those who put the words in red, do not perhaps recognize two things.
1) God alone is the Beginning and the End - Alpha and Omega.
So they erred when they make this quote, as coming from Jesus.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
God is speaking there, as he did previously...
Revelation 1:
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 21:
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
Revelation 22:
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
This error is made either because those persons believe that God and Jesus are the same person, or they think that because God says he is coming, and Jesus says he is coming, that means God is Jesus.
However, God can say he is coming, because he is rendering judgment through the one he appointed as judge.
2) An angel is speaking to John, and relating the message.
In other words, the angel is quoting Jesus, as well as God, but John is the one who in turn relates the words to the congregations.
He first says...
(Revelation 1:4, 5) 4 John to the seven congregations that are in the province of Asia: May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”. . .
If we continue reading from there, we realize that John is speaking. Not Jesus. John is simply quoting what he hears, and relating what he sees.
So should those words really be in red, indicating that Jesus is speaking?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe they are from the Holy Spirit who is Jesus.
Really, in the original the words of Jesus were Not in red.
Using red is a tradition outside of original manuscripts.
King James sometimes uses red but it is Not because it was originally in red, but man's choice to use red.
A KJV red-colored choice does Not mean in the original but man's later choice to do so.
God gave the revelation to Jesus Christ to show things.........according to Revelation 1:1
Jesus shows the revelation things.....
Remember 2 Timothy 3:16-17 because ALL Scripture ( includes Revelation ) is inspired by God.
God is given the credit as being the Author of the Bible.
God revealed Revelation to Jesus as it was God who is the One who revealed in the past - Daniel 2:28
Since the 'heaven of heavens' can Not contain God surely Earth could Not contain God.
2 Chronicles 2:6
1 Kings 8:27
Isaiah 66:1
Acts of the Apostles 17:24; Acts of the Apostles 7:48 God does Not dwell in man-made structures.
Heaven is His home location - 2 Chronicles 6:18; 1 Kings 8:39.
So, yes, according to the Bible, God will never govern from Earth.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
Revelation 1:1 is also neither spoken by Yeshua- the Jewish Messiah nor authored by him nor written by him as it has not been colored red in the Red Letter Bible by:
KJV
https://wn.elib.com/Library/Religious/KJV/NR/NewTrl_rev.htm
or
Douay Rheims
The Apocalypse of St. John
and or
Messianic Judaism people
The Apocalypse of St. John
Right?
Will one correct oneself, please? Right?
1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
New Testament (RLE): The Revelation of Saint John the Divine
Isn't it just a presumption of John or his narration of a vision, it transpires, please? Right?
Regards
Revelation 1:1 is also neither spoken by Yeshua- the Jewish Messiah nor authored by him nor written by him as it has not been colored red in the Red Letter Bible by:
KJV
https://wn.elib.com/Library/Religious/KJV/NR/NewTrl_rev.htm
or
Douay Rheims
The Apocalypse of St. John
and or
Messianic Judaism people
The Apocalypse of St. John
Right?
Will one correct oneself, please? Right?
Sorry, it is a wrong accusation on Jesus that he wrote/authored/spoke it, one must say, as the inner evidence of the book testifies that It is from John who heard a voice:
1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
New Testament (RLE): The Revelation of Saint John the Divine
Isn't it just a presumption of John or his narration of a vision, it transpires, please? Right?
Regards
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Balthazzar
Christian Evolutionist
If we have our paradise on earth.Like Jehovah's Witnesses believe.Why 1 Thessalonians 4:17?And Revelation 21:1?
We've never known a time on earth when there was no war, or famine, pestilence, or death. From what I understand, the whole creation grumbles as if with birthing pangs for the day when these have been overcome. If science and religion are compatible, which I insist that they are, then I would think evolutionary changes in our forms would play a role in the betterment of life here and this world becoming a paradise. Flesh to spirit bodies, fervent heat, etc. The sun is set to red giant in 5 to 7 billion years. The earth will be so hot, it will be unable to support life as we know it, which is why evolutionary changes in development, adaptation, and developing new forms out of survival necessity seem appropriate, as well as likely, extending even to plants and tree's etc.
Some fear the coming red sun age, viewing it to be our "hell", but I see it and our lives now to be stages in human development, environment being pivotal to the changes to come. I think the biggest issue in attaining a paradise is in our seeming inability to make peace with our neighbors. The changes will take place, and as it is with everything else, there will be resistance in the processes of change. That's life, eh? Scripturally speaking - I see no conflict or contradiction.
Revelation 1:1 says GOD and does not say Jesus . God gave to Jesus.....
There is God in the heavens who is a Revealer of secrets...... see Daniel 2:28; Amos 3:7
The signs were presented to -> John - Revelation 1:1 B
By inspiration "I" John came to be in our day/ time frame (Lord's Day - Revelation 1:9-11)
The "I" person in those verses is: John. John writing.....
.... and I find the ' overcome ' is the 'coming' of Christ as mentioned at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15.
The ' sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' will rid the Earth of the wicked .
Not a coming ' red-sun age ' but the coming ' great tribulation ' of Revelation 7:14,9.
Yes, to attain paradise then peace with neighbors is essential.
'Resistance in the process of change' is the resistance of those figurative ' goats ' found at Matthew 25:31-34.
At Jesus soon coming Glory Time, at the ' time of separation ' Jesus will separate those resistant 'goats'.
The wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 37:38; Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22