If stars were created, cosmology is wrong

[dad]

I'm sure scientists, being human, will make claims they can't support however like any other unsupported claims they can be disregarded.

Not really since such claims are endemic in cosmology models.

 

[oldbadger]

I do not need any theory that shows the bible true.

See? It's just Faith.
Most people can acknowledge the faiths and religions of others, but most folks won't accept such beliefs as facts.
By the way, do you acknowledge the faiths and beliefs of others? Some extreme Christians don't even acknowledge other Churches and Creeds, you know.

To know Him, we need to first believe. Then we know.
Joh 17:3 - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1Jo 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Here we go.......... John.
Oh dear! The John that wrote that Mother Mary watched the crucifixion? I think he even put himself at the scene, didn't he?
I'll stick with G-Mark's account, with Magdalene, Salome and a few other followers who watched 'from afar'.
Do you know what would have happened if watchers had walked too close? A good kicking and clubbing, I expect.

We already know that John lived on Patmos in the Second Century and had no idea of how to place his reports in to a real timeline, and I suspect that he liked those psychedelic mushrooms that abounded on that island.

And ancient astrologers had very clear ideas. And idol worshipers had clear ideas. Flat earthers have clear ideas. The ideas that so-called science has about origins of life and the universe are wrong and religious faith based ideas.

You don't know that........ all you have is Faith.

Here we go. The descent into the biased and ignorance-based interpretation of the bible....yawn

I think I know the gospels quite well.
Apostle John was not there.

 

[PruePhillip]

People are free to choose what they want, I need evidence before I choose to believe anything.

Predicting Jews will be in Israel isn't that amazing in my view.

There's this saying in "critical scholarship" - "There's no evidence the Jews were slaves in Egypt."
Meaning - the whole Exodus account is bogus.
But anyone intellectually honest would also say, "There's no evidence the Jews were in Canaan either."
So every theological student (many going into various ministries) learn that the bible is mythic, without
understanding how "facts" are presented to them.

Re Israel. Imagine there were some people who called themselves Babylonians. And they were intent
upon rebuilding Babylon. Now the bible said, before Babylon fell, that it would never be inhabited again
and today it's just a field of dried mud. So these "Babylonians" take back their piece of Iraq and fight
not the Iraqi army, but seven armies. These people resurrect their ancient language and religion. They
become THE force of the Middle East. It would be amazing that there were even genetic Babylonians
to begin with - we argue over whether Egyptians were black or white, and the Edomites, Amalakites,
Moabites, Assyrians, Sumerians, Akadians etc are all long gone as a race. Yet here are the Jews, still
a people - and we can even discern the Levite tribal line to Moses in some Jews.
Yes, the whole story about how the Jews returned to their ancient land, in the face of mockery from the
intellectuals and academics of the 19th Century, and fought those amazing wars.

 

[John53]

There's this saying in "critical scholarship" - "There's no evidence the Jews were slaves in Egypt."
Meaning - the whole Exodus account is bogus.
But anyone intellectually honest would also say, "There's no evidence the Jews were in Canaan either."
So every theological student (many going into various ministries) learn that the bible is mythic, without
understanding how "facts" are presented to them.

Re Israel. Imagine there were some people who called themselves Babylonians. And they were intent
upon rebuilding Babylon. Now the bible said, before Babylon fell, that it would never be inhabited again
and today it's just a field of dried mud. So these "Babylonians" take back their piece of Iraq and fight
not the Iraqi army, but seven armies. These people resurrect their ancient language and religion. They
become THE force of the Middle East. It would be amazing that there were even genetic Babylonians
to begin with - we argue over whether Egyptians were black or white, and the Edomites, Amalakites,
Moabites, Assyrians, Sumerians, Akadians etc are all long gone as a race. Yet here are the Jews, still
a people - and we can even discern the Levite tribal line to Moses in some Jews.
Yes, the whole story about how the Jews returned to their ancient land, in the face of mockery from the
intellectuals and academics of the 19th Century, and fought those amazing wars.

Sorry but I have no idea what your point is.

 

[PruePhillip]

Sorry but I have no idea what your point is.

My point was to answer this:
1 - People are free to choose what they want, I need evidence before I choose to believe anything.
2 - Predicting Jews will be in Israel isn't that amazing in my view

1 - How "evidence" is presented to us
2 - How amazing it is that the Jews are going home - a concept we have grown accustomed to because
it's gone on since 1897.

 

[John53]

My point was to answer this:
1 - People are free to choose what they want, I need evidence before I choose to believe anything.
2 - Predicting Jews will be in Israel isn't that amazing in my view

1 - How "evidence" is presented to us
2 - How amazing it is that the Jews are going home - a concept we have grown accustomed to because
it's gone on since 1897.

Isn't it more important if the evidence is credible? You mentioned exodus, putting aside the fact that there is no record oft he Hebrews being in Egypt the story loses all credability with the parting of the seas. Not to mention ii it is true it shows a very nasty side of God, everytime Pharoah decides to release them God hardens his heart and stops him, then inflicts more misery on the Egyptians.

Not amazing to me at all. I'm not sure why you think it is or why it is significant considering what was happening in the world when the modern Israel was created.

 

[PruePhillip]

Isn't it more important if the evidence is credible? You mentioned exodus, putting aside the fact that there is no record oft he Hebrews being in Egypt the story loses all credability with the parting of the seas. Not to mention ii it is true it shows a very nasty side of God, everytime Pharoah decides to release them God hardens his heart and stops him, then inflicts more misery on the Egyptians.

Not amazing to me at all. I'm not sure why you think it is or why it is significant considering what was happening in the world when the modern Israel was created.

This "nasty side of God"
Do you disbelieve in the concept of the biblical God because a god can't be "nasty"?
Do you believe the biblical account, but refuse to love such a God?

Some say God wouldn't do what the bible says He did. But the bible makes plenty of
warnings to the Jewish people of what would eventually happen to them. Jacob in
Egypt even said the Jewish nation would end with the Messiah. Witness what happened
to the Jewish people. Driven out of 120 nations since the loss of their temple and nation
2,000 years ago. And millions murdered in Crusades, Pogroms and Final Solutions.

 

[John53]

This "nasty side of God"
Do you disbelieve in the concept of the biblical God because a god can't be "nasty"?
Do you believe the biblical account, but refuse to love such a God?

Some say God wouldn't do what the bible says He did. But the bible makes plenty of
warnings to the Jewish people of what would eventually happen to them. Jacob in
Egypt even said the Jewish nation would end with the Messiah. Witness what happened
to the Jewish people. Driven out of 120 nations since the loss of their temple and nation
2,000 years ago. And millions murdered in Crusades, Pogroms and Final Solutions.

I don't believe in any gods because I have seen no evidence that I consider even close to adequate. In my limited research on the topic the most believable gods to me are those of the Australian Aboriginals and the San Bushmen of Africa.

My disbelief in the Biblical God is from lack of evidence and from reading the bible.

 

[PruePhillip]

I don't believe in any gods because I have seen no evidence that I consider even close to adequate. In my limited research on the topic the most believable gods to me are those of the Australian Aboriginals and the San Bushmen of Africa.

My disbelief in the Biblical God is from lack of evidence and from reading the bible.

What evidence do you have for the dreamtime serpent in Australia?
What part of the bible caused you to disbelieve in God?

 

[Nakosis]

Not really since such claims are endemic in cosmology models.

Well, up to you.

One should constantly question everything, especially their own beliefs, IMO.

 

[dad]

See? It's just Faith.
Most people can acknowledge the faiths and religions of others, but most folks won't accept such beliefs as facts.

It is is a good thing to have faith in God, in fact He commands it. It is a very bad thing to have faith in so-called science for its godless fables with no basis in fact.

By the way, do you acknowledge the faiths and beliefs of others? Some extreme Christians don't even acknowledge other Churches and Creeds, you know.

I acknowledge many beliefs exist. One example is angels and demons. Both are real.

Here we go.......... John.
Oh dear! The John that wrote that Mother Mary watched the crucifixion? I think he even put himself at the scene, didn't he?
I'll stick with G-Mark's account, with Magdalene, Salome and a few other followers who watched 'from afar'.

? Why would I care if Mary had a better seat? After all, maybe moms were allowed a little closer.

Do you know what would have happened if watchers had walked too close? A good kicking and clubbing, I expect.

Vivid imagination.

We already know that John lived on Patmos in the Second Century and had no idea of how to place his reports in to a real timeline, and I suspect that he liked those psychedelic mushrooms that abounded on that island.

Those who know Scripture realize that it all fits together in a harmony far better than anything man could work out. It does seem somewhat insulting to the councils and believers of ages who accepted the books you try to dump on when you claim they must have all been frauds also.

I think I know the gospels quite well.

Think again.

 

[dad]

Well, up to you.

One should constantly question everything, especially their own beliefs, IMO.

I question beliefs of false science, my own beliefs are rock solid and immovable and true.

 

[Nakosis]

I question beliefs of false science, my own beliefs are rock solid and immovable and true.

Then why do you call them beliefs and not facts?

 

[John53]

What evidence do you have for the dreamtime serpent in Australia?

No evidence what so ever and I wasn't referring to Rainbow Serpent, other than reading a few stories I don't know much about that. I was referring to Baiame who is the creator God of the traditional owners of where I live. And no I have no evidence and no I don't believe Baiame exists, I like the stories and I'm interested in local history.

What part of the bible caused you to disbelieve in God?

Most of the old testament, revelations, Pauls letters, bits and pieces of the gospels.

 

[oldbadger]

It is is a good thing to have faith in God, in fact He commands it. It is a very bad thing to have faith in so-called science for its godless fables with no basis in fact.

I acknowledge many beliefs exist. One example is angels and demons. Both are real.

? Why would I care if Mary had a better seat? After all, maybe moms were allowed a little closer.
Vivid imagination.

Those who know Scripture realize that it all fits together in a harmony far better than anything man could work out. It does seem somewhat insulting to the councils and believers of ages who accepted the books you try to dump on when you claim they must have all been frauds also.

Think again.

That's just your belief.
All of it.
Historical research can help to separate the myth from the history.

 

[dad]

Then why do you call them beliefs and not facts?

Because that is what they are.

 

[dad]

That's just your belief.
All of it.
Historical research can help to separate the myth from the history.

What you find depends on what you are looking for. Your hairy stories about John not being John and etc are a fantasy that requires considerable effort to construct and believe.

 

[Nakosis]

Because that is what they are.

I suppose everyone has beliefs (except me of course) have beliefs they won't let go of. Even scientists...

Ok so I think I get it. You're just pointing that these "beliefs" about cosmology are no different than your own beliefs?

I would only say that in science, people are not allowed to hold on to beliefs they can't support. Well they can have a belief but if they can't support it then it is no different than any religious belief.

 

[dad]

I suppose everyone has beliefs (except me of course) have beliefs they won't let go of. Even scientists...

Ok so I think I get it. You're just pointing that these "beliefs" about cosmology are no different than your own beliefs?

They are different because they are called science falsely. Not only cosmology, but all origin sciences are belief based in entirety.

I would only say that in science, people are not allowed to hold on to beliefs they can't support.

They are allowed and would be fired if they did not, or worse. When we look at radioactive isotope ratios for example and date things by the present rates of decay, that is a belief based exercise. (believing that the laws of nature in the past were the same and that our present nature is responsible for all ratios we see)

Well they can have a belief but if they can't support it then it is no different than any religious belief.

Bingo.

 

[oldbadger]

What you find depends on what you are looking for. Your hairy stories about John not being John and etc are a fantasy that requires considerable effort to construct and believe.

That is an easy fact to show. Plenty of evidence.