DNB
Christian
Wisdom, and proper and disciplined exegesis, obviously.
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- Thread starter Spirit of Light
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not see anything in the parable about the 10 virgins that says that the entire world will be aware of Christ's return.
Jesus says to be watching. Why would we need to be watching if everyone would see the return of Christ?
Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Nowhere in the NT do I see any verses that say that the entire world will be aware of Christ's return.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I did not say that Muslims believe that. Baha'is believe that only the body of Jesus died but not His spirit. Baha'is do not believe that Jesus was God.
I did not say that God's Word is divided into different cultures and dispensations. I said it is revealed to different cultures in different dispensations.
In other words, I do not believe that the Bible is the only Word of God.
In the context of the following passage, the City of God is the Revelation of God vouchsafed from God to humanity.
“They that valiantly labor in quest of God, will, when once they have renounced all else but Him, be so attached and wedded unto that City, that a moment’s separation from it would to them be unthinkable. They will hearken unto infallible proofs from the Hyacinth of that assembly, and will receive the surest testimonies from the beauty of its Rose, and the melody of its Nightingale. Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and readorned….
That City is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus, the Gospel; in the days of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, the Qur’án; in this day, the Bayán; and in the Dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest, His own Book—the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book that standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 269-270
DNB
Christian
The parable had one dichotomy: those that were prepared, and those that weren't. The masters return was announced to all of them, all 10 virgins, the prepared and unprepared, heard the announcement and were all cognizant f the fact that their master had arrived. The only question was who had conducted themselves in a manner that was acceptable towards their masters expectations.
The implication, as far as the Master's clandestine appearance is concerned, is that all the parties in question knew of his arrival - he was neither discreet nor deceptive about his return.
The entire world will see Christ's return.
Acts 1:11
After He had instructed His Apostles, Jesus ascended into heaven. While the Apostles looked up into the heavens, two angels stood beside them and said, “Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go” .
Matthew 24:30
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see ‘the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven’ with power and great glory.
Mark 13:24-28
24 “But in those days, after that suffering,
the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light,
25 and the stars will be falling from heaven,
and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
26 Then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in clouds’ with great power and glory. 27 Then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
28 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he[a] is near, at the very gates.
DNB
Christian
When their exegesis makes sense and corresponds with the Bible, obviously.
DNB
Christian
You've divided the message.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
How would it be possible for all of the 7.8 billion people in the world to see one man appearing at one moment in time?
Also, how would everyone in the world know it was Jesus?
If Jesus returned to this world, how would you know it was Jesus?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
DNB
Christian
He will traverse the entire globe gathering his elect.
Who else will it be?
DNB
Christian
But that settles it, one's going to chose one or the other. It will never be decisive as one rising above the other, in many people's mind. But, let the wisest one in the room qualify his belief, and compel others to understand and accept his views.
DNB
Christian
There is only one God, and God is neither confused nor divided in will and message. The Patriarchs were Israelis for a specific reason, and the Messiah was chosen from the tribe of Judah for a very specific reason, and Christ fulfilled all the qualification of the Messiah - ultimately, seating at God's right-hand side, to judge all mankind on the final day.
How can anyone else come in the name of the 'Messiah'?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Christ fulfilled all the qualifications of the Messiah and He is seated at God's right-hand side, but Christ was not ever slated to be the one who would judge all mankind on the final day.
In the Bahá’í interpretation, the coming of each Manifestation of God is a Day of Judgment, but the coming of the supreme Manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh is the great Day of Judgment for the world cycle in which we are living. The trumpet blast of which Christ and Muhammad and many other prophets speak is the call of the Manifestation, which is sounded for all who are in heaven and on earth—the embodied and the disembodied. The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity.
The Day of Judgment
Baha'u'llah did not come in the name of Jesus.
“The Book of Isaiah announces that the Messiah will conquer the East and the West, and all nations of the world will come under His shadow, that His Kingdom will be established, that He will come from an unknown place, that the sinners will be judged, and that justice will prevail to such a degree that the wolf and the lamb, the leopard and the kid, the sucking child and the asp, shall all gather at one spring, and in one meadow, and one dwelling. 4 The first coming was also under these conditions, though outwardly none of them came to pass. Therefore, the Jews rejected Christ, and, God forbid! called the Messiah masíkh, 5 considered Him to be the destroyer of the edifice of God, regarded Him as the breaker of the Sabbath and the Law, and sentenced Him to death. Nevertheless, each one of these conditions had a signification that the Jews did not understand; therefore, they were debarred from perceiving the truth of Christ.
The second coming of Christ also will be in like manner: the signs and conditions which have been spoken of all have meanings, and are not to be taken literally. Among other things it is said that the stars will fall upon the earth. The stars are endless and innumerable, and modern mathematicians have established and proved scientifically that the globe of the sun is estimated to be about one million and a half times greater than the earth, and each of the fixed stars to be a thousand times larger than the sun. If these stars were to fall upon the surface of the earth, how could they find place there? It would be as though a thousand million of Himalaya mountains were to fall upon a grain of mustard seed. According to reason and science this thing is quite impossible. What is even more strange is that Christ said: “Perhaps I shall come when you are yet asleep, for the coming of the Son of man is like the coming of a thief.” 6 Perhaps the thief will be in the house, and the owner will not know it.
It is clear and evident that these signs have symbolic signification, and that they are not literal. They are fully explained in the Kitáb-i-Íqán. Refer to it.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 111-112
26: THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST AND THE DAY OF JUDGMENT
Viker
Häxan
People would probably find something else to be contentious about.
It probably wouldn't hurt if people would stop putting interest in themselves or others beliefs being "right/wrong".
DNB
Christian
The Bahai' interpretation is much too esoteric to be either ratified by the Bible, or substantiated by wisdom.
Christ was clear, he is the Alpha and the Omega, but now, you have offered a different meaning for this, a meaning not specified in any clear terms within the Bible.
Christ has lived on earth, born around 6-4 BC, and died around 30 AD, raised from the dead, ascended to heaven approximately 47 days later to be seated at God's right-hand side, waiting for God the Father to have him return to earth to gather his elect from all the four corners of the world....
...how is it possible that your religion allows for many other dynamics or facets to take place somewhere within this framework?
Are you so frivolous with your theology that you just accept any fool that comes along claiming divine auspices: Mohammed, Confucius, Siddhartha, Zoroaster, Bahá’u’lláh, etc...?
Are there no reigns or parameters as to whom you accept as being sent by God, and who you don't?
Again, what is lacking in the Gospel of Christ that you feel it necessary to offer another Gospel - people and events that neither the TaNaKh nor the New Testament endorse or speak of?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Christ was the Alpha and the Omega but so were all the Manifestations of God because they all arise to proclaim the same Faith, so they are as one soul and the same person.
“The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 50
“It is clear and evident to thee that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith.
The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. Even as He saith: “Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the others. To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs, and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 52
I do not believe that is the framework because I believe that Christians have misinterpreted the Bible and thus hold false beliefs about the return of Christ and who that would be
Of course there are parameters as to who I accept, but all the Manifestations of God fall within those parameters.
As I said before, I do not believe that Confucius was a Messenger of God.
Baha’u’llah sternly warned us never to make any distinction between any of the Messengers of God (who are the Manifestations of His Cause) because they all arise to proclaim the same religion, since there is only one eternal religion of God. Baha’u’llah wrote that the works and acts of all the Manifestations of God were all ordained by God, a reflection of His Will and Purpose.
“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60
Neither the TaNaKh nor the New Testament contain the 'remedy' that the world needs in this new age. Do you watch the news?
“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.
We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
DNB
Christian
Christ cannot be the Alpha & Omega, if somebody else was also, obviously?
He de did not say that he preached the Alpha & Omega, but rather that he, himself was the beginning and end of God's will.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Since all the Manifestations of God are the beginning and end of God's will, they are all the Alpha & Omega.
All the Manifestations of God are the same Spirit of God clothed in diverse attire.
“It is clear and evident to thee that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of Being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendor! Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: “I am the return of all the Prophets,” He, verily, speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact, the truth of which is firmly established…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 52
DNB
Christian
Islam is antithetical to Christianity - they are not both from God.