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If America keeps illegal aliens out who will pick our vegetables?
- Thread starter Shaul
- Start date
SA Huguenot
Well-Known Member
Let me put everything in perspective.
You guys in the USA is a first world country and a leader in crop cultivation. Therefore we should compare you with the Netherlands who is the second biggest exporter of food in the world.
And their land to cultivate produce is perhaps one of the smallest in the world too.
This means per hectare of land, the US is actually verry bad compared to the Hollanders.
Then again, compare the USA with South Africa, and you guys are incredibly productive.
What is the reason?
Automation and technology.
To sustain the billions of people on earth we need technology. The farming industry initially plowed by ox, and tractors increased food production and with the use of fertilizers and insectisides humans had more food, and more children were born to feed. Implements became larger and stronger, and more food was produced. We are now manipulation grain and veggies by DNA changes to grow bigger with less water which insects do not recognise.
Our poultry industry changed from small farmers slaughtering perhaps a few hundred chickens a month to sell to neighbours, to multi billion Dollar companies slaughtering 3 million chickens in one process plant a week.
Again, the Dutch in Holland are the leaders in building automated machines to slaughter, de feather, eviscerate, cutup, freeze and pack these chickens and they sell these machines internationally.
Have you ever seen 50 000 chickens in one chicken house with 100% controlled environment, being fed the best designer feed to grow from a one day old chick to a 34 day broiler weighing 2 Kg?
It is amaizing stuff.
In a factory in Holland, they slaughter 250 000 chickens a day with only about 50 employees!
The USA is a bit more but only because the American consumers demands more intricate portioning as where the Europeans consumes mostly Whole Chickens.
Anyhow, the profit margins on poultry meat is very low, something between 5% to 15% at best.
Now imagine running a Chicken abbattior with manual labour where machines does not do the job. One person can slaughter only say 200 chickens a day. Then we will not even freeze it, or process it at all. The labour costs will go through the roof, and you will never slaughter to target.
Eventually you will lose productivity, and chicken prices will be 2000% more expensive than what we pay now.
Now what can one do with a labour force that do not have any technical training that can at least service machines, work on the computer programming, maintain the process with scientific knowledge, if they never even finished school?
Hard labour is the only jobs available for them, and these jobs are disapearing fast with new machines being designed and computerised even more.
In South Africa, we have a policy that our industries will not fully automate, such as cutting up chickens, catching live chickens, limited sorting by computers, limited convyors to allow manual labour.
This is how the industry provided jobs to the unemployd masses with no skils.
Great idea?
For the socialists and communists it is a solution, but they are quickly proven how stupid they are once the USA imports their chicken meat at a quarter of our prices.
Then the poultry industry starves, and more people lose employment. Companies closes down etc. If it is not for trade agreements, Avian flue, and other biological impacts that reduces imports from Brazil and the USA, the poultry industry in South Africa will dissappear!
Therefore, if the USA are still using humans to harvest their produce, they had better shape up and automate, or realise they are contributing to have China selling food to the Americans.
As for the immigration of migrant workers performing these jobs, rather invest in their countries and gt rid of the socialists in the South.
Always keep in mind the following.
Slavery was not ended by wars and politics, but with the industrial revolution and mechanisation it was cheaper to byu a machine doing 10 slave's work, than to buy 10 slaves and having to support them.
The rule of survival of a country is:
make food, as cheap as possible, as much as possible, as healthy as possible.
If you dont, you will lose your country.
Greetings
You guys in the USA is a first world country and a leader in crop cultivation. Therefore we should compare you with the Netherlands who is the second biggest exporter of food in the world.
And their land to cultivate produce is perhaps one of the smallest in the world too.
This means per hectare of land, the US is actually verry bad compared to the Hollanders.
Then again, compare the USA with South Africa, and you guys are incredibly productive.
What is the reason?
Automation and technology.
To sustain the billions of people on earth we need technology. The farming industry initially plowed by ox, and tractors increased food production and with the use of fertilizers and insectisides humans had more food, and more children were born to feed. Implements became larger and stronger, and more food was produced. We are now manipulation grain and veggies by DNA changes to grow bigger with less water which insects do not recognise.
Our poultry industry changed from small farmers slaughtering perhaps a few hundred chickens a month to sell to neighbours, to multi billion Dollar companies slaughtering 3 million chickens in one process plant a week.
Again, the Dutch in Holland are the leaders in building automated machines to slaughter, de feather, eviscerate, cutup, freeze and pack these chickens and they sell these machines internationally.
Have you ever seen 50 000 chickens in one chicken house with 100% controlled environment, being fed the best designer feed to grow from a one day old chick to a 34 day broiler weighing 2 Kg?
It is amaizing stuff.
In a factory in Holland, they slaughter 250 000 chickens a day with only about 50 employees!
The USA is a bit more but only because the American consumers demands more intricate portioning as where the Europeans consumes mostly Whole Chickens.
Anyhow, the profit margins on poultry meat is very low, something between 5% to 15% at best.
Now imagine running a Chicken abbattior with manual labour where machines does not do the job. One person can slaughter only say 200 chickens a day. Then we will not even freeze it, or process it at all. The labour costs will go through the roof, and you will never slaughter to target.
Eventually you will lose productivity, and chicken prices will be 2000% more expensive than what we pay now.
Now what can one do with a labour force that do not have any technical training that can at least service machines, work on the computer programming, maintain the process with scientific knowledge, if they never even finished school?
Hard labour is the only jobs available for them, and these jobs are disapearing fast with new machines being designed and computerised even more.
In South Africa, we have a policy that our industries will not fully automate, such as cutting up chickens, catching live chickens, limited sorting by computers, limited convyors to allow manual labour.
This is how the industry provided jobs to the unemployd masses with no skils.
Great idea?
For the socialists and communists it is a solution, but they are quickly proven how stupid they are once the USA imports their chicken meat at a quarter of our prices.
Then the poultry industry starves, and more people lose employment. Companies closes down etc. If it is not for trade agreements, Avian flue, and other biological impacts that reduces imports from Brazil and the USA, the poultry industry in South Africa will dissappear!
Therefore, if the USA are still using humans to harvest their produce, they had better shape up and automate, or realise they are contributing to have China selling food to the Americans.
As for the immigration of migrant workers performing these jobs, rather invest in their countries and gt rid of the socialists in the South.
Always keep in mind the following.
Slavery was not ended by wars and politics, but with the industrial revolution and mechanisation it was cheaper to byu a machine doing 10 slave's work, than to buy 10 slaves and having to support them.
The rule of survival of a country is:
make food, as cheap as possible, as much as possible, as healthy as possible.
If you dont, you will lose your country.
Greetings
SA Huguenot
Well-Known Member
Oh, if you worry about illegal immagrants not picking your veggies, try thinking how they are taking employment away from legal immagrants who dont have any skills but are your fellow countrymen.
If you use illegal immigrants to do these jobs, you are driving these wages down to starving wages where supply and demand simply results in poverty.
This is perhaps the stupidist thinking by Liberal socialists to force the government in opening their borders.
Let me give you some more insight in RSA
56 milion people, 30% unemployed, 8 million illegal immigrants driving wages down, social grants, open borders, poverty, 12 million people living below the bread line, taxation of 36% plus 14% sales tax, plus 50% feul levies, all to have the socialist goverment give the poorest of the poor a grant of 10 Dollars for every child per month.
Any fool preaching open borders, and socialism should come and live in Mozambique, Zimbabwe, South Africa and I will gladly live i the USA under TRump.
Wake up America.
If you use illegal immigrants to do these jobs, you are driving these wages down to starving wages where supply and demand simply results in poverty.
This is perhaps the stupidist thinking by Liberal socialists to force the government in opening their borders.
Let me give you some more insight in RSA
56 milion people, 30% unemployed, 8 million illegal immigrants driving wages down, social grants, open borders, poverty, 12 million people living below the bread line, taxation of 36% plus 14% sales tax, plus 50% feul levies, all to have the socialist goverment give the poorest of the poor a grant of 10 Dollars for every child per month.
Any fool preaching open borders, and socialism should come and live in Mozambique, Zimbabwe, South Africa and I will gladly live i the USA under TRump.
Wake up America.
Tambourine
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is "liberal socialists" (a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one) who seek to drive wages down by employing people on the cheap.
More like the exact opposite of socialists...
More like the exact opposite of socialists...
SA Huguenot
Well-Known Member
Oh, what if they call themself "Liberal and drive socialism.
They will even call themself anti- Facist, being the worst kind.
No guys, Kapitalism creates jobs, removes poverty, and builds a country.
The only critisism the communist and socialist can offer against Capitalism, is to open old history books dating before 1820 where businusses still did not drive labour laws and health and safety regulations.
Face it, Socialism and Liberalism is a dead donkey going nowhere slowly.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Dang I haven't thought of that angle.
Look at the centuries of experience that the Mexicans have with agriculture compared to a machine that was probably designed by somebody in a cubicle named Bob.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I don't think businesses would bother taking care of the workers anyways especially for those that have investors that need to be paid and will probably receive more funds by investors in the future. The modern day corporate mentality is the workers don't make any profit, the investors/shareholders do.
SA Huguenot
Well-Known Member
So true.
These corporate minds are the blind businuss owners not knowing where economy comes from. They think it is made on the stock markets and investments. I remembered when my company had a visit from "Shareholders", one was a Yuppie who inherited quite some riches, and he was amaised to see how a poultry abattoir works that slaughters 2 Million chickens a week.
He had no clue to what the industry comprised off.
I stood back as he observed every machine, spoke to the workers, and was overwhelmed by the intricacy of the process.
I saw a guy who lived so far away in his world of abundancy, amongst hundreds of laborours who live of less than 300 Dollars a month.
And I realised, it is not his doing that these workers are employed at these wages, if it was not for him, 1200 workers in this company (internally for in all the company employs 9000 people) would not earn anything at all just as their neighbours does. In a country with 40% govrnment employment, 30% unemployment, these workers are in a capitalist system, whereas the other 70% in a socialist system.
So, capitalism creates employment, Socialism gives jobs in government positions and the rst remains poor.
Do not look at a machine that will harvest your veggies as something that will create unemployment.
Previously people used oxen to travel to the west, today there are trains and trucks.
It takes factories and technitians to build and maintain these machines.
No robot can replace the foundries, the technitians, the artisan, the engineer, the Quality inspector, and if you build machines to replace these people, you will ned more machines to look after these machines, this will take people.
Quality is just as important, if not more than Quantity.
Look at Japan and China.
A Japanese master can craft the best knifes from special materials, and it will take a week to make one set, but he will sell it for hundreds of dollars more than the rubbish the Chinese pushed out of their factories, where they wont even hestitate to recycle radio active steel as a percentage of virgin material to get rid of thei rubbish.
A Japanese will make the best anti static, softest handeling comb that will distrubute natural oils through your hair keeping it healthy for 10 times longer than the plastic rubbish one can buy in gros from China. These combs, made from boxwood will sell for 100 dollars! And they sell like sweet cakes.
No, it is up to the individual to be creative to create businuss, and that is not in any persons' intellect to achieve.
The more entrepeneurs, the more work.
Id say, if you can not support yourself one must face the reality.
You will work with your hands, and you will work for the intelligent.
There is nothing wrong to labour for a boss who are actually supplying you with an income.
There is no chain on your ancle, leave if you feel you can do better elsewhere.
This is the first principle of improving your life!
Do better, dont sit on your arse and complain because you think you have the right to demand that government should feed you.