Idolatry and Christianity

[metis]

actually its very simple.

excessive admiration, or blind devotion, is doing something that directly, or indirectly, harms another because the focus is so aimed at the tree that it doesn't see the forest.

one's race could be an idolatrous thing.
one's gender, one's age, one's culture.

Actually it's far from being "very simple" because there's no universal agreement on what "idolatry" actually is. I tend to believe that most people do agree that worshiping a constructed image is "idolatry", but once we get beyond that I certainly don't see agreement.

Again, how far does "veneration" have to go before it becomes "idolatry" is impossible to measure because there can be so many different aspects of "veneration" thus, imo, "veneration" doesn't qualify as idolatry unless the object is actually worshiped and/or expected to do certain things on its own. And as Catholics per the Catechism, we are forbidden by canon law to do that.

 

[BrightShadow]

Idolatry is forbidden in the Torah, the OT, and the NT.


so why would someone ignore the fact and continue to practice idolatry to a created, begotten, formed thing if their religious teaching forbid it?

Idolatry is a simple concept.
Idolatry is the worship of an idol as though it were God. I agree with you that - in Abrahamic religions, namely Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - it is clearly banned!
The problem is not with understanding the concept - the problem is when people do it but try to justify it somehow that they are not really idol worshipping!
Anytime you extremely admire a statue, a picture or an object such as a cross and feel immensely sadden when it gets damaged or lost - you need to realize you were idol worshipping!
God IMO is immune to any dependency on any such objects. God does not need a medium by way of which to be worshiped. No one needs aid of an object to send their adoration, prayer or submission to God. So, question is - why use these mediums especially when followers of these Abrahamic religions are clearly asked not to do so.
Now, in my opinion - people who are worshipping Jesus as God/god - are already on a wrong path. So, for them stop worshipping a statue of Jesus or believing in some sort of power in a cross - wouldn't make the situation any worse because I don't believe Jesus was God/god in the first place. So, what difference does it make if you are talking to Jesus as a God directly or via a statue? Anyhow that's just my opinion!
But if you want to believe in an almighty God who asked you not to idol worship - then it is probably better to believe he is independent from any of these objects. From his point of view - when you make a small statue and worship it - you are actually insulting him because he asked not to do that.

 

[metis]

Anytime you extremely admire a statue, a picture or an object such as a cross and feel immensely sadden when it gets damaged or lost - you need to realize you were idol worshipping!

So, if one sabotages my car overnight, I shouldn't feel "saddened"?

I like my car but I certainly don't treat it as an idol.

 

[BrightShadow]

So, if one sabotages my car overnight, I shouldn't feel "saddened"?

I like my car but I certainly don't treat it as an idol.

This is what is called out of context!
I thought it was clear what I implied when I wrote "extremely admire a statue" as God/god or associating an object with godly attributes or powers.

 

[metis]

This is what is called out of context!
I thought it was clear what I implied when I wrote "extremely admire a statue" as God/god or associating an object with godly attributes or powers.

Reread what you wrote below the 2nd blue sentence in your last post. If you want to grandstand [], that's your choice, but I think it's a cheap shot.

 

[BrightShadow]

Reread what you wrote below the 2nd blue sentence in your last post. If you want to grandstand [], that's your choice, but I think it's a cheap shot.

In the context of the topic of the original post (idolatry) - I thought it would be understood.
I guess I was wrong! Anyhow I hope I clarified what I meant in my next post.

 

[Fool]

If your referring to idolatry as misguided or having an inordinate affection towards a creature, then your definition is viable. But, as the OP indicates, it is the Biblical usage that he was referring to, as in the 2nd Commandment: ascribing deity to any other entity other than God.

i didn't limit the OP to the 2nd commandment. I said the torah, the OT, and the NT


mankind is an image of god. images of any kind are verboten in the OT, NT

 

[Fool]

Actually it's far from being "very simple" because there's no universal agreement on what "idolatry" actually is. I tend to believe that most people do agree that worshiping a constructed image is "idolatry", but once we get beyond that I certainly don't see agreement.

Again, how far does "veneration" have to go before it becomes "idolatry" is impossible to measure because there can be so many different aspects of "veneration" thus, imo, "veneration" doesn't qualify as idolatry unless the object is actually worshiped and/or expected to do certain things on its own. And as Catholics per the Catechism, we are forbidden by canon law to do that.

with unconditional love there is no greater/lesser because of the ineffable name. all things have worth in a pantheistic whole. with idolatry there is greater/lesser. very similar to the tree of knowledge vs the tree of life from which all came to be.



mankind is an image of god. images of any kind are verboten in the OT, NT

 

[Fool]

Idolatry is a simple concept.
Idolatry is the worship of an idol as though it were God. I agree with you that - in Abrahamic religions, namely Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - it is clearly banned!
The problem is not with understanding the concept - the problem is when people do it but try to justify it somehow that they are not really idol worshipping!
Anytime you extremely admire a statue, a picture or an object such as a cross and feel immensely sadden when it gets damaged or lost - you need to realize you were idol worshipping!
God IMO is immune to any dependency on any such objects. God does not need a medium by way of which to be worshiped. No one needs aid of an object to send their adoration, prayer or submission to God. So, question is - why use these mediums especially when followers of these Abrahamic religions are clearly asked not to do so.
Now, in my opinion - people who are worshipping Jesus as God/god - are already on a wrong path. So, for them stop worshipping a statue of Jesus or believing in some sort of power in a cross - wouldn't make the situation any worse because I don't believe Jesus was God/god in the first place. So, what difference does it make if you are talking to Jesus as a God directly or via a statue? Anyhow that's just my opinion!
But if you want to believe in an almighty God who asked you not to idol worship - then it is probably better to believe he is independent from any of these objects. From his point of view - when you make a small statue and worship it - you are actually insulting him because he asked not to do that.

mankind is an image of god. images of any kind are verboten in the OT, NT

 

[DNB]

i didn't limit the OP to the 2nd commandment. I said the torah, the OT, and the NT


mankind is an image of god. images of any kind are verboten in the OT, NT

Niet te geloven, that is not the meaning of the image of God. It is the spiritual dimension within man. Either way, image is a versatile word that has several meanings, and not every usage denotes an offense to God, obviously. You're way off base in so many ways. Not all images are or prohibited, at all. As Christ was the perfected image of God, and as we are equally created in His image, it is expected of us to conform to God's image as Christ did - be holy as I am holy, God emphatically states.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

mankind is an image of god. images of any kind are verboten in the OT, NT

Exodus 20:4 uses the Hebrew word Pehsel, which means an idol. Genesis 1:26-27 uses the Hebrew word Tsehlem, which means likeness. They do not mean the same thing. When God created mankind in his image, or likeness, it means we have many of the character traits of God. We don't LOOK like him. God has no form. It is because God has no form that we are prohibited to imagine what he might look like aka make an idol.

 

[Fool]

Niet te geloven, that is not the meaning of the image of God. It is the spiritual dimension within man. Either way, image is a versatile word that has several meanings, and not every usage denotes an offense to God, obviously. You're way off base in so many ways. Not all images are or prohibited, at all. As Christ was the perfected image of God, and as we are equally created in His image, it is expected of us to conform to God's image as Christ did - be holy as I am holy, God emphatically states.

christ is all and in all. it isn't one man. that would be taking the lord's name in vain. that is forbidden because all are christ

 

[Fool]

Exodus 20:4 uses the Hebrew word Pehsel, which means an idol. Genesis 1:26-27 uses the Hebrew word Tsehlem, which means likeness. They do not mean the same thing. When God created mankind in his image, or likeness, it means we have many of the character traits of God. We don't LOOK like him. God has no form. It is because God has no form that we are prohibited to imagine what he might look like aka make an idol.

i didn't use the OT alone for a reason

 

[IndigoChild5559]

i didn't use the OT alone for a reason

The arguement that was given was basically that making an image is forbidden, and God created manking in his image. Both of those statements are verses in the Tanakh, thus my answer merely pointed out that two very different Hebrew words were used, and thus there is NO CONNECTION between the commandment not to make idols, and humans being created with characteristics of God.

 

[Fool]

The arguement that was given was basically that making an image is forbidden, and God created manking in his image. Both of those statements are verses in the Tanakh, thus my answer merely pointed out that two very different Hebrew words were used, and thus there is NO CONNECTION between the commandment not to make idols, and humans being created with characteristics of God.

The argument is that anything begotten, created, formed is not to be worshipped. That is what idolatry is. God doesn't have a form. God creates forms. One image of God is not greater than another

 

[DNB]

christ is all and in all. it isn't one man. that would be taking the lord's name in vain. that is forbidden because all are christ

Typically I promote people reading the Bible, ...but, you should stay away from it, and take a course in dialectics first.

 

[DNB]

It is because God has no form that we are prohibited to imagine what he might look like aka make an idol.

...yes, ....and, I imagine, it would be ascribing physical or created matter to Him, thus, both undermining His transcendence, and limiting His magnificence. - what on earth could possibly compare to His majesty and omnipotence.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The argument is that anything begotten, created, formed is not to be worshipped. That is what idolatry is. God doesn't have a form. God creates forms. One image of God is not greater than another

You didn't listen to ta thing about what I said regaridng the differences of the words in hebrew. I can't help you.

 

[Fool]

Typically I promote people reading the Bible, ...but, you should stay away from it, and take a course in dialectics first.

the bible says you have one teacher, the christ. so then where is this christ? I am with you always. the second coming isn't an objective experience. it comes from within as elijah heard the still small voice and david was told to be still and i will be exalted among the nations and in the earth.

 

[Fool]

You didn't listen to ta thing about what I said regaridng the differences of the words in hebrew. I can't help you.

Deuteronomy 4:12


this is why idolatry is forbidden to anything that is formed, created, begotten. idolatry is the abomination; which causes desolation of the land.