I need some help, please

[lilithu]

I'm not sure which I find more offensive, that you would:

1) use Michel's personal question about whether or not he can rightly call himself a Christian as a platform for your views against gays

or

2) compare homosexuality to alcoholism, as if being gay were a dibilitating disease

or

3) suggest that the motivation to follow God's will should be reward, rather than a pure love for God and God's creation. :banghead3

... it all boils down to the very same choice that Adam and Eve had to make: Obey God or side with Satan and decide for yourself what is right and wrong. It is that simple.

ARRRRRGH!!! :banghead3 So thinking for yourself is evil??! And just how did you come to this conclusion, pray tell?! Surely you didn't decide it for yourself?! God gave us minds and God gave us hearts/consciences and God gave us free will, and for you to disdain these gifts and counsel others to do the same is the worst sin that I can imagine.

 

[Mike182]

I'm not sure which I find more offensive, that you would:

1) use Michel's personal question about whether or not he can rightly call himself a Christian as a platform for your views against gays

or

2) compare homosexuality to alcoholism, as if being gay were a dibilitating disease

or

3) suggest that the motivation to follow God's will should be reward, rather than a pure love for God and God's creation. :banghead3

ARRRRRGH!!! :banghead3 So thinking for yourself is evil??! And just how did you come to this conclusion, pray tell?! Surely you didn't decide it for yourself?! God gave us minds and God gave us hearts/consciences and God gave us free will, and for you to disdain these gifts and counsel others to do the same is the worst sin that I can imagine.

correct on all accounts :clap

must spread karma around before giving it to lilithu again

 

[Katzpur]

I want to say a big thank you to everyone who has given his/her opinion; I never for one moment thought that I would have such a response from my question.


What can I add ? - just thank you.

Well, Michel, maybe it's because none of us can even begin to conceive of why you, of all people, would feel the need to ask if you have the right to call yourself a Christian! :162:

 

[HOGCALLER]

Sunstone,

You ask: “Alcoholism is harmful both to the alcoholic and often enough to others. But how is homosexuality harmful to the homosexual or to others?”

Possible harm to others is not the reason for God’s proscription of homosexuality any more than it was the reason for the proscription of adultery, fornication and even of lying and stealing for that matter. When the Bible talks about sin, any sin, it as often as not discusses the harm done to self by the destruction of one’s relationship with God—that is the harm! Under the Mosaic Law Code many sexual offenses were also capital offenses, why? Being connected to the use of the reproductive or sex organs those offenses were connected to showing respect/disrespect for life and the sanctity of life and more importantly to showing respect/disrespect for God who is Holy and requires holiness from those who want a relationship with him. (Read Leviticus 18 and then compare Leviticus 19:2 and 1 Peter 1:16) Secular society and governments may use the “harm to others” standard in their proscriptions but that certainly is not the standard God uses.

Also, if men were farsighted enough they possibly would be able to see all the “harm to others” caused by the ever-declining moral standards. I feel quite certain that those “modern,” “tolerant,” or “liberal” “religious leaders” that, starting about 75 to 100 years ago, began to pooh-pooh their “old-fashioned,” “intolerant,” or “Puritanical” brethren about such “harmless” and “insignificant” sins as fornication never envisioned what we find today—on demand abortions by the millions, millions of single parent households, church sex scandals one after the other, epidemic STD’s, divorces out numbering marriages and a society that will “tolerate” almost anything and if you look far enough into the dark corners does “tolerate” any and everything. They did not see it and you apparently cannot see that there is no such thing as a harmless sin. Again, “Where does it stop?”

Just because the “pop,” “anything goes” religions practiced by most nowadays contain no concept of sin and have totally abandoned God’s standards does not mean that God has followed their lead. These matters are serious, life-and-death serious. My intention was only to make that point. If I was not kind enough in pointing that out, I am truly sorry. It certainly was not my intention to personally attack or insult anyone.

.

 

[Draka]

Michel, I don't think you have anything to worry about when it comes to your faith and what you claim it to be. As for a specific denomination, I don't think you should worry about finding one either. As long as you know what you believe and it is true in your heart then that is what matters. As my mother has said to me "I don't need to go to a church for God to hear me or to know I believe...he is everywhere and can hear me wherever I am...just as easy by my bedside as in a church."

As was already brought up before, Jesus never condemned homosexuality...he only preached love to others...and that is what you do...so feel safe in calling yourself a Christian.



As for the OTHER comments by a certain person...ignore them and know that you are fine and comfortable in your beliefs. That is what is truly important.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

Alot of Catholics I know are pro homosexual rights, which begs the question, why do they participate in the religion in the first place. A religion is supposed to bring together people of similar ideologies: if you share different views than those around you, then why would you continue to be apart of that circle? Personally, I feel people trivialise religion, simply "going with the flow" because they cannot be bothered (or do not care enough) choosing a religion for themselves.

I admire you for stepping out and questioning your faiths beliefs versus your own. You sound as Christian as they come, and no conservative Pope or otherwise can take that away from you. Perhaps you should just settle into being plain old "Christian" in your own way, and leave the semantics and bickering to those that miss the bigger picture.

 

[constantine]

I believe we are all christians( if not jewish). Christianity shaped our western society as we know it today......We all have had doubts because of mans influence on religion to serve him ,not god.

Who do we really serve if we can't believe what is true in our hearts, but the next religion that shows us that they share some common disbeliefs as we do..

 

[Bennettresearch]

There are beliefs I cannot, in conscience, subscribe to. Uppermost those about Homosexuality; that is the sticking point that is like a very sore thumb.

Can I continue to call myself a Christian ? Do I need to dissociate myself from Christianity because of the 'bits' I can't go along with ?

Hi Michel,

Well you do seem conflicted, but I find it facinating that you don't reject Christianity because most do not accept homosexuality. This is a tough subject because at the forefront, Christians do not want to hurt other people but some become too judgemental and wrongly condemn others. Where I am misunderstood a lot is that sex should really be a private matter and not at the forefront of anything. And so, as I would really leave this as people's private affairs, it comes comes to the surface as an issue nowadays.

In some ways you adhere more to the doctrinal Christianity than I do. I would encourage you to keep on being a Christian and keep soul searching to resolve your own personal issues like we all do. Actually, homosexuality is not in direct conflict with Christianity because none of us are perfect beings, if we were, then we would be gods. Whereas you are conflicted about this someone else may be conflicted about something else in their lives. It is like saying that which sin is the lesser and which is the greater, that is only decided by God. I don't pretend to have an answer for you but like I said, keep on being a Christian and ultimately things should work out.

 

[Pah]

When the Bible talks about sin, any sin,

Also, if men were farsighted enough they possibly would be able to see all the “harm to others” caused by the ever-declining moral standards. I feel quite certain that those “modern,” “tolerant,” or “liberal” “religious leaders” that, starting about 75 to 100 years ago, began to pooh-pooh their “old-fashioned,” “intolerant,” or “Puritanical” brethren about such “harmless” and “insignificant” sins as fornication never envisioned what we find today—on demand abortions by the millions, millions of single parent households, church sex scandals one after the other, epidemic STD’s, divorces out numbering marriages and a society that will “tolerate” almost anything and if you look far enough into the dark corners does “tolerate” any and everything. They did not see it and you apparently cannot see that there is no such thing as a harmless sin. Again, “Where does it stop?”

Just because the “pop,” “anything goes” religions practiced by most nowadays contain no concept of sin and have totally abandoned God’s standards does not mean that God has followed their lead. These matters are serious, life-and-death serious. My intention was only to make that point. If I was not kind enough in pointing that out, I am truly sorry. It certainly was not my intention to personally attack or insult anyone.

How did this thread get so far off topic?


Hogcaller - you should start a thread discussing the concept of sin vis a vis the US Constitution.