I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now...

[Trailblazer]

If it is the Holy Spirit being talked about, then arguably the chapter presents the Holy Spirit as lesser and not speaking with its own authority. If it is not the Holy Spirit being talked about, then it is seemingly a person whom Jesus thought would come in the future.

As I just said in my post, I believe it is about a Person Jesus knew and promised would come in the future.

Regarding both the Comforter and the Spirit of truth, It makes no sense that a disembodied Holy Spirit could do the following things that are in John 14, 15 and 16. Only a Person who brought the Holy Spirit could do all these things:

• Teach you all things
• Call to remembrance what Jesus said
• Testify of Jesus
• Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
• Guide you into all truth
• Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
• Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

 

[Trailblazer]

This passage complements the one you are quoting:

John 14:15 If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.

So, a relevant question is: why the people belonging to "the world" will never know what the spirit of truth is?

The verse says: the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it.
The verse does not say "the world" will never know what the spirit of truth is.

The answer to your question is quite simple. At the time that John 14:17 was recorded the world could not receive the spirit of truth, since he had not been sent yet. That is why nobody in the world could see it or know it. However, the disciples of Christ knew it since it was the same spirit that was with them and in them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe the question should be "What is the Spirit of truth?"

I answered what I believe it is in this post:

I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now...

John 16:12-14 “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[amazing grace]

I answered what I believe it is in this post:

I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now...

John 16:12-14 “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He...

www.religiousforums.com

Yes, I read your response.

 

[Truthseeker]

John 16:12-14

“I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you."

=-=-=-=-=

This question is for anyone who believes in Jesus in some way or sees themselves as a follower of Jesus in some way - rather Jesus be God incarnate, the Messiah, a prophet, a good teacher, or however one sees him.

How should the above verses be interpreted? How do you understand and interpret the verses? Who is the Spirit of Truth?

I remember a time when I used to try to give the interpretation of prophecies, but after a time I realized the futility of trying to convince anyone of those interpretations. Prophecies can be interpreted many ways, they don't convince anyone. The evidence of any faith is these things, in my opinion:

Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 105)

To establish a prophet's truth you need to investigate his life. In this description there are various ways to interpret what His Revelation is, and what His words are, but the upshot is how has he influenced the world with His words or Revelation.

I don't see fulfillment of prophecies in that description. Interpretations of prophecies given for any religion only possibly strengthen the faith that is already there.

 

[Ebionite]

John 16:12-14

“I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you."

=-=-=-=-=

This question is for anyone who believes in Jesus in some way or sees themselves as a follower of Jesus in some way - rather Jesus be God incarnate, the Messiah, a prophet, a good teacher, or however one sees him.

How should the above verses be interpreted? How do you understand and interpret the verses? Who is the Spirit of Truth?

The clues are in the context:

If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:24-26

Fulfilment.

Matthew 5 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Fulfillment is related to unjustified hatred: John 15 23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Trailblazer]

I remember a time when I used to try to give the interpretation of prophecies, but after a time I realized the futility of trying to convince anyone of those interpretations. Prophecies can be interpreted many ways, they don't convince anyone. The evidence of any faith is these things, in my opinion:

Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 105)

To establish a prophet's truth you need to investigate his life. In this description there are various ways to interpret what His Revelation is, and what His words are, but the upshot is how has he influenced the world with His words or Revelation.

I don't see fulfillment of prophecies in that description. Interpretations of prophecies given for any religion only possibly strengthen the faith that is already there.

But Duane, you did not answer the question.
How should the above verses be interpreted? How do you understand and interpret the verses? Who is the Spirit of Truth?

Your answer makes no sense unless you say what the prophecy was about..
Instead you are way out in left field. I guess the beginning of football season has gone to your head.

 

[Truthseeker]

But Duane, you did not answer the question.
How should the above verses be interpreted? How do you understand and interpret the verses? Who is the Spirit of Truth?

Your answer makes no sense unless you say what the prophecy was about..
Instead you are way out in left field. I guess the beginning of football season has gone to your head.

Well, I don't think your answer will be helpful for the quest for truth. I don't think anybody who is not a Baha'i will believe what you say. For my taste, the William Sears answer to the Revelations passage you cited is too literal. But I understand he was trying to cope with a literal-minded world.

I'm calling it a night here. The indictments coming down have gone to my head, too. You forgot that part.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think anybody who is not a Baha'i will believe what you say.

I don't post it for that reason.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm calling it a night here. The indictments coming down have gone to my head, too. You forgot that part.

No, I have not forgotten about that. How could I, since you keep reminding me?

 

[Madmogwai]

The Holy Spirit, in Christian theology, is considered the third person of the Holy Trinity, alongside God the Father and God the Son (Jesus Christ). The concept of the Holy Spirit is central to the doctrine of Christianity, particularly within the framework of the Nicene Creed.

The Holy Spirit is often described as the divine presence and power of God, who is believed to dwell within believers, guiding and empowering them in their spiritual journey. It is considered the agent of God's work in the world, actively involved in the process of creation, redemption, and sanctification.

Within the New Testament of the Bible, the Holy Spirit is depicted as an advocate, a comforter, and a helper for believers. It is believed to play a crucial role in the life of Christians, enabling them to experience the transformative power of God and to bear spiritual fruit, such as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

Furthermore, the Holy Spirit is believed to bestow spiritual gifts upon believers, equipping them for service and ministry within the Christian community. These gifts include but are not limited to wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discernment, and speaking in tongues.

The Holy Spirit is also seen as the source of unity within the Church, guiding believers into truth, and empowering them to live according to God's will. It is believed to be actively at work in convicting individuals of sin, leading them to repentance, and drawing them into a personal relationship with God.

Ultimately, the Holy Spirit is regarded as an integral aspect of the Christian faith, symbolizing the dynamic presence of God within the lives of believers, and serving as a source of spiritual transformation and empowerment. Its role and significance are foundational to the understanding of Christian theology and practice.

 

[Little Nipper]

As I just said in my post, I believe it is about a Person Jesus knew and promised would come in the future.

Regarding both the Comforter and the Spirit of truth, It makes no sense that a disembodied Holy Spirit could do the following things that are in John 14, 15 and 16. Only a Person who brought the Holy Spirit could do all these things:

• Teach you all things
• Call to remembrance what Jesus said
• Testify of Jesus
• Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
• Guide you into all truth
• Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
• Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

Why would you say this? I feel that the HOLY SPIRIT has brought verses of scripture to my mind when I've needed them when I've witnessed/testified of Jesus to someone. I believe a spirit can certainly cause one to dream in order to work out an issue. There have been times when I didn't know what to say to someone and suddenly I've been able to express myself coherently regarding GOD's word. I feel sure that this is very much how the prophets of old were enlightened of GOD to write the scriptures.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why would you say this? I feel that the HOLY SPIRIT has brought verses of scripture to my mind when I've needed them when I've witnessed/testified of Jesus to someone. I believe a spirit can certainly cause one to dream in order to work out an issue. There have been times when I didn't know what to say to someone and suddenly I've been able to express myself coherently regarding GOD's word. I feel sure that this is very much how the prophets of old were enlightened of GOD to write the scriptures.

Please note the following verses. It is clear to me that the Comforter and the Spirit of truth are referring to a man who would bring the Holy Spirit in the future, and that man would do everything that Jesus promised in these verses. Jesus was 'a Comforter' since He brought the Holy Spirit which gives comfort, and Jesus said that God the Father would send 'another Comforter.'

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7-11 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[Little Nipper]

Please note the following verses. It is clear to me that the Comforter and the Spirit of truth are referring to a man who would bring the Holy Spirit in the future, and that man would do everything that Jesus promised in these verses. Jesus was 'a Comforter' since He brought the Holy Spirit which gives comfort, and Jesus said that God the Father would send 'another Comforter.'

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7-11 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

And I do believe the HOLY SPIRIT to be a being. And, I also believe Jesus Christ will return in the future and HE is a being.

 

[Trailblazer]

And I do believe the HOLY SPIRIT to be a being.

What do you mean by 'a being?'

The Bible says that God is spirit, and I believe the Holy Spirit is the bounty of God that emanates from God's spirit.

And, I also believe Jesus Christ will return in the future and HE is a being.

Of course Jesus was a being, a human being who was more than human, since He had a twofold nature, so He was both divine and human.

Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another man.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[Little Nipper]

What do you mean by 'a being?'

"A Person." The HOLY SPIRIT wishes to love us, help us, encourage us and council us.

The Bible says that God is spirit, and I believe the Holy Spirit is the bounty of God that emanates from God's spirit.

I believe in the Triunity of the ONE GOD.

Of course Jesus was a being, a human being who was more than human, since He had a twofold nature, so He was both divine and human.

Absolutely! And The SON still exists and will return to reign.

Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another man.

The scripture speaks for GOD:
So if anyone tells you, ‘There He is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Matthew 24:26-27

---

And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

Luke 21:25-28

---

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Matthew 24:36

---

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Matthew 25:13

---

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him.

Hebrews 9:28

---

Bonus

Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him. Even so. Amen.

Revelation 1:7 (ESV)

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

This is temporary, and the world hasn't seem JESUS since HIS ascension approximately 2000 years ago now...

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Again, this is true in that those living then didn't see JESUS again.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

The MESSIAH/CHRIST's work of salvation is indeed finished.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Just because CHRIST left the world and isn't presently visible, doesn't mean that things cannot change.

 

[Trailblazer]

"A Person." The HOLY SPIRIT wishes to love us, help us, encourage us and council us.

I believe in the Triunity of the ONE GOD.

I believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit work together and that they are one in Purpose, but I do not believe they are all part of God.
I believe in a Trinity, and the detailed explanation is in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY

In brief, here is how I believe the Trinity operates.

-- God is exalted above anything that can ever be perceived so God remains in His own high place, on His Throne. God never descends to earth.
-- God sent Jesus from heaven and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit from the womb of Mary into a human body.
-- Later, after Jesus reached a certain age, God sent the Holy Spirit to Him and it descended upon Him like a dove when Jesus was baptized.
-- After Jesus received the Holy Spirit from God the Father, Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to believers and it dwelt in believers.
-- The Holy Spirit does not enter the body, but rather it has a direct connection to the body through the soul, which is associated with the mind.
-- That is what the indwelling Holy Spirit means to me.

Absolutely! And The SON still exists and will return to reign.

The scripture speaks for GOD:
So if anyone tells you, ‘There He is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Matthew 24:26-27

---

And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

Luke 21:25-28

---

But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Matthew 24:36

---

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Matthew 25:13

---

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him.

Hebrews 9:28

---

Bonus

Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him. Even so. Amen.

Revelation 1:7 (ESV)

This is temporary, and the world hasn't seem JESUS since HIS ascension approximately 2000 years ago now...

Again, this is true in that those living then didn't see JESUS again.

The MESSIAH/CHRIST's work of salvation is indeed finished.

Just because CHRIST left the world and isn't presently visible, doesn't mean that things cannot change.

I do not want to argue about whether Jesus is coming back to earth. I have my beliefs and you have your beliefs. Suffice to say, I have a lot to back up my belief that Christ has already returned as Jesus promised. Jesus never promised to return in the same physical body, which would be impossible, since physical bodies do not exist in heaven where Jesus resides.

Please note that when asked, Jesus did not answer that He would be coming back to earth, since He never planned to. He only gave a warning not to be deceived by those who came in His name, saying they are Christ. He warned us because so many false prophets have come claiming to be Christ.

Matthew 24 KJV​

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?​

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.​

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.​

I do not believe that Christ returned with the same name, Jesus Christ. I believe He returned with a new name, as the Bible says.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.​

​

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.​

​

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.​

The new name means that the return of Christ would be another man with a new name.

 

[Fool]

John 16:12-14

“I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you."

=-=-=-=-=

This question is for anyone who believes in Jesus in some way or sees themselves as a follower of Jesus in some way - rather Jesus be God incarnate, the Messiah, a prophet, a good teacher, or however one sees him.

How should the above verses be interpreted? How do you understand and interpret the verses? Who is the Spirit of Truth?

it's like sitting down at a feast or buffet. it's one bite at a time. you can't eat it all in one sitting and you don't have too. food for the body, food for thought.




the spirit of truth is something that can only be realized in the image of god

 

[Ebionite]

The verse says: the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it.
The verse does not say "the world" will never know what the spirit of truth is.

The answer to your question is quite simple. At the time that John 14:17 was recorded the world could not receive the spirit of truth, since he had not been sent yet. That is why nobody in the world could see it or know it. However, the disciples of Christ knew it since it was the same spirit that was with them and in them.

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Acts 2:16

And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of YHWH shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as YHWH hath said, and in the remnant whom YHWH shall call.
Joel 2:32

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 4:8-10