I believe in Creation ...and Evolution

[Passerbye]

How has christianity "adapted"? Yes, many denominations come about, often from taking things out of context in the Bible, often because what is there cannot be accepted, and often because of differences in translations of the Bible. If you want to find out the differences and why they came about look them up or ask about it. Many denominations are based on what the Bible clearly states as wrong, but it is still considered Christian to evolutionists.

Believe as you will, but the birth of a new being (human, animal, plant, fish, etc.) is hardly miraculous - it occurs at an incredible rate all over this planet. How miraculous is that?

Oh, so it's the rate of occurrence that makes it not a miracle. Evolution happens a lot less than birth, is that a miracle?

Your ignorance of the Theory of Evolution, and how it has "evolved" over time, is astonishing. Not surprising, but astonishing.

So... enlighten me.

The majority of Christians embrace evolution - due to their ability to objectively consider the mountains of evidence that support it.

Christians thought in the past that they were to adapt or die out. This is how it was indoctrinated into christian society. Some still believe in the ways it can mix, but I don't and I think the Bible backs me up, unless someone can point me to the verses that suggest it didn't take 6 days. Like I said before, the "Mountains of Evidence" (raw data) can still go either way.

I'm only asking that you stop trying to justify your beliefs by intentionally misunderstanding what science teaches us. When that intentional intellectual dishonesty goes unchallenged, it leads to people wanting to teach religion in a science class.

Ok, if you don't want religion in a science class, stop teaching evolution in it.

We have no way of knowing that the elements that exist on earth represent the entire gamut of what is available throughout the universe. It is entirely possible that other elements exist in solar systems with a double sun, or near a black hole.

True, God does seem to like variety.

Yes, it can be an accident. There are BILLIONS of stars in the universe - with an unimaginable number of planets orbiting them. Over the BILLIONS of years that the universe has existed, it is not only possible that it is an accident, it approaches a certainty - and probably has occurred more than once.

Okay, what calculater have you been using, and can I get one. It might increase my odds in poker too. But, seriously where did you get this from?

If our corner of the universe is "designed", I'd say the designer was having a bad day.

I'd say you can't judge the original pot by the broken pieces of clay, that's (apparently) is MILLONS of year old. Please, it takes just a few seconds for humans to screw things up.

Trust me - I'm an agnostic, and science has given me absolutely no reason at all to believe in Paul Bunyan or God.

Paul Bunyan... I didn't know he was even an issue.

Us humans are badly designed. We have become bi-pedal, but this has resulted in the birthing channel being somewhat unsatisfactory

Or, a very satisfactory idea.

Humans may be the most concious and intelligent of the species.. we we are inferior to other animals in a variety of different ways.

Exactly, but God never said he made us Ultra Superior In Every Way!!!

2000 years ago we were subject to the wildness of nature just as much as the animals...

Yes, and we have survived. Compaired to the other animals that didn't make it this far I'd say that borderlines on the miraculous. I wouldn't call it a miracle, but it's a little odd.

What, is God bored or something?

That would explain creation. Can you imagin being the first thing there ever was? Totaly lonely! I'd start counting hairs, just because I can remember it. And why do you think he couldn't make every snowflake one by one? Doesn't man draw things, just to throw the drawings away, just because he CAN?

I mean absolutely no disrespect, ES, but to me, if you could show me a person that has been declared clinically dead, and a week later, they arise from the ground - now THAT would be a miracle.

You haven't even posted a reply to the stuff I gave you and yet you ask for more!?!

Assuming a miracle is unique is blinding you.

What she said.

 

[Passerbye]

WOW, it took a long time to catch up.

 

[Passerbye]

Bah.. the term 'miracle' is a word with a socially formed meaning attatched to it. I can assume what I like about it. It has no absolutely true meaning.
Perhaps you should better define what you mean by the term 'miracle'.

Yes, it should be better defined.

 

[Passerbye]

mir·a·cle (mĭr'ə-kəl)

n.

1. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: “Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves” (Katherine Anne Porter).
2. One that excites admiring awe. See synonyms at wonder.
3. A miracle play.

This is the definition accepted by scientists.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Perhaps you should better define what you mean by the term 'miracle'.

Ever since my children were born, I have been able to see through the eyes of a child, with the experience of an adult, this has led me to believe that there are miracles happening all around us, everyday.

The idea that a caterpiller wraps itself up and emerges a butterfly is miraculous to me.

 

[Tawn]

All you have to say is this…”Bird Eating Tarantulas”. The discovery channel showed this Tarantula climbing up the side of a tree and hiding behind some leaves so it could eat unsuspecting birds that sleep in the trees.

What more do you need? That is proof of creationism.
How the can you tell me that a tarantula evolved so that birds would be it’s preferred diet?
With all the stuff on the ground that it could eat relatively easily it found through a process of elimination that it would be better off eating birds?
That had to be created.

Ok deflecting the argument along a new path.. ill fly with it..
Firstly, (as has been said many times in the past by others) disproving evolution doesnt prove creationism.
Whats so odd about a bird eating spider? Birds die.. when they do they fall to the ground right? So ok this spider walks along and tried a bit of bird.. and thinks.. hmm that was tasty but a bit difficult to digest properly.
So then a few generations later theres an adaptation(s) which allows these spiders to better digest birds. They have the advantage because they can eat birds unlike the other spiders.. but after a few more generations, ****, all the damn spiders are eating dead birds.. so then some spider is walking along a tree and sees a living bird.. not on the ground.. and manages to take the bird unawares.. this is the norm until an other evolutionary step(s) takes place and spiers with an uncanny ability to jump develop - perhaps this is a way of evading predators - jumping of trees.. but anyway it happens to be useful for catching these birds.. and so the jumping bird eating variety of spider is more sucessful..

Alternatively perhaps these spiders used to spin large webs and catch small birds from time to time.. an evolutionary ofshoot of these spiders was better equipped at consuming birds and grew larger, but couldnt spin webs large and thick enough to catch large birds.. so therefore the spider had to punce on its larger victim before it managed to struggle free of the insufficiently large enough web. Eventually this pouncing activity was useful not only for catching meduim sized birds that struggled in the web for a short while - but could be used to catch even larger birds without the use of the web. Catching larger birds was more efficient and thus being able to spin webs became unrequired..

This is not proof of creationism.. more likely proof of your inability to think expansively.

 

[Tawn]

Ever since my children were born, I have been able to see through the eyes of a child, with the experience of an adult, this has led me to believe that there are miracles happening all around us, everyday.

The idea that a caterpiller wraps itself up and emerges a butterfly is miraculous to me.

Hmm sounds like what I call wonderous.. wonder is seeing the beauty and marvelousness of life.

 

[Passerbye]

This is not proof of creationism.. more likely proof of your inability to think expansively.

Wow. That's a good amount of "Expanding".

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

unless someone can point me to the verses that suggest it didn't take 6 days.

Dear, this is where I loose you to the myths of religion. Though Genisis describes he created the world in six days, he also said that to him "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years as a day."

This myth is one of the things that keep us seperated on this issue.

 

[Passerbye]

wonder is seeing the beauty and marvelousness of life.

Yea, it took me a long time to get my head out from that "Scientific" hole in the ground and see what is right in front of me. Would you like to pull your head out too? It's fun.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

This is not proof of creationism.. more likely proof of your inability to think expansively.

Who's not thinking expansively?

 

[Passerbye]

"a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years as a day" Was in context to Jesus saying he will come back soon. People were thinking he was coming back in a few days or months, when this clears up that it could be thousands of years. Genesis says "and there was morning, and there was evening. The ___ day." How can it be interpreted as any different?

 

[Passerbye]

Who's not thinking expansively?

Again, what she said.

 

[Tawn]

Or, a very satisfactory idea.

Eh?

Exactly, but God never said he made us Ultra Superior In Every Way!!!

Enchanted spirit was talking about top of the evolutionary chain.. I was just trying to demonstrate that evolution has no 'top'.

Yes, and we have survived. Compaired to the other animals that didn't make it this far I'd say that borderlines on the miraculous. I wouldn't call it a miracle, but it's a little odd.

hehe.. humans havent been around for very long.. and we look like were going to kill ourselves very quickly..

That would explain creation. Can you imagin being the first thing there ever was? Totaly lonely! I'd start counting hairs, just because I can remember it. And why do you think he couldn't make every snowflake one by one? Doesn't man draw things, just to throw the drawings away, just because he CAN?
.

Yes but can you not see how now creationism is becoming self-fufilling?
You tell me that life is precise and planned and that patterns can only come from intelligent design.. then I point our some areas where life isnt so perfect and precise and how patterns come from chaos.. and then you answer by saying ah well perhaps the imprecision was intentional and the chaos wasnt chaos at all.
Cant you see thats youve destroyed the very foundations upon which you rested the assumption that everything must have been designed on in the first place?
(i know this is a mixture of responses from you and ES... but you get my gist?)
Or to put it simply: if the universe is designed there must be evidence of precision, planning and intention in everything... or otherwise the point is moot... we can assume nothing. Human physical frailty seems anything but intentional. You could argue that we are badly designed or purposefully designed badly.. but then thats not really compatible with your assertion that the universe displays intentional design - which was the whole reason for you suggesting Creationism in the first place..

hmz.. I know what I mean.. I hope I got that across...

 

[Tawn]

Who's not thinking expansively?

Youre the one making assumptions because you cant fathom alternatives...

'Creationism must be true because I cant get my head around evolution' :sarcastic

 

[Tawn]

Yea, it took me a long time to get my head out from that "Scientific" hole in the ground and see what is right in front of me. Would you like to pull your head out too? It's fun.

Id sure like you to.. though I think my heads out already..
I study Architecture.. and thats all about exploring meaning, poetics of space and uplifting the human spirit. Just because theres more to life than materialism - doesnt mean there must be a God.

 

[Passerbye]

I didn't say chaos couldn’t make patterns. That was just an amusing thought that popped into my head. And I don't think the current state of people is much to go on of the past of people. I do think people have gone downhill since creation. How else do you explain every generation of old people, back to at least King Solomon, saying "Things were better back in my day!"?

 

[Passerbye]

'Creationism must be true because I cant get my head around evolution'

I can get my head around it just fine. It's not that hard to comprehend.

 

[Passerbye]

Youre the one making assumptions because you cant fathom alternatives...

'Creationism must be true because I cant get my head around evolution' :sarcastic

You believe man came from a bacteria, I believe man is dirt. Look at the world... now, what does man sound like to you?

 

[Tawn]

I didn't say chaos couldn’t make patterns. That was just an amusing thought that popped into my head. And I don't think the current state of people is much to go on of the past of people. I do think people have gone downhill since creation. How else do you explain every generation of old people, back to at least King Solomon, saying "Things were better back in my day!"?

No you didnt.. really I was answering you and ES in the same breath.. if your opinion differs then im sorry.
Mankind may well be going downhill... but I cant say the testimony of older people is proof of that.. people always like to think that things were better in their day.. because society constantly changes and is shaped by the younger generations.. older generations always look at what the youth is upto and disagree.. simply because it is different to what they valued when they were young..

You believe man came from a bacteria, I believe man is dirt. Look at the world... now, what does man sound like to you?

Ah... but I believe man is of the dirt too.