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Hypothetically speaking

Purple Thyme

Active Member
Thanks Enhanced Spirit. The water explanation was a great simple way of stating the way I think. I don't think we get a choice of moving on or repeating a lesson here. I have always felt you had to earn your way through by becoming closer to love or the pool of love where we come from. You have to do your lessons till you get them. So I don't think the choice in mine.
 

^happy

Member
Enchanted spirit;
My understanding is that once the soul chooses to enter this earth plane,
we must pass the tests, learn the lessons, let go of self and the tickle here to get back to Father/Love.
If we commit suicide it would only make the lessons the next time that much harder.

Transcend into heaven without dying is an interesting concept, Do you mean to tanscend with the bodys we now have?
 

^happy

Member
Purple Thyme,
If we don't have a choice to move on or repeat the lesson where does free will fit in.
Can't we learn the lesson by experience or empathy and then move on.
Doesn't it seem like if there is free will there should also be a path out of this place back to Father/Love.
Unless we want to stay in this dominion world.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
^happy said:
Seyorni
I so appreciated your response. Tell me how you see the Exit path. That is the path I am desperate to find.

Well, that's the $64,000 question, isn't it?

Psychic, meditative and devotional exercises; sensory deprivation, drugs, breath control, mantras, vision quests -- all kinds of yogas have their adherents. The general consensus is different strokes for different folks. Each person has to find what works best for him.
You'll find the whole concept of spiritual growth through progressive levels of consciousness foreign to the Western, Abrahamic faiths.
Try looking into some of the methodologies of the Eastern traditions,
 

Mystic-als

Active Member
EnhancedSpirit - "We have chosen to come back, over and over again. For me, personally, it was not because I love the material world, it was to perfect myself."

For me there's nothing more to say. This is what I believe.
 

^happy

Member
Seyorni,
Can you elaborate on Progressive levels of consciousness?
Also can you give me your view of "the real objective reality"
Is it possible to leave the earth plane by choosing Love instead of Dominion (The I gottcha attidude that seems abundant here) and willing to leave the tickle/pleasures behind as well?
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
^happy said:
Seyorni,
Can you elaborate on Progressive levels of consciousness?
Also can you give me your view of "the real objective reality"
Is it possible to leave the earth plane by choosing Love instead of Dominion (The I gottcha attidude that seems abundant here) and willing to leave the tickle/pleasures behind as well?
This question was not directed at me, but I have something on one of my websites that might fit this catagory. It is the outline of the nine insights found in Celestine Prophecy. I call it 9 steps to spiritual maturity.

1. Meaningful coincidences
Everybody's starting to look for more meaning in life. One of the first things you realize is that coincidences are meaningful. Things happen for a reason. Start paying closer attention to those seemingly "Chance Coincidences" - strange occurrences that feel like they were meant to happen. They are actually synchronistic events, they are like road signs, and following them will start you on your path to spiritual truth.
2. Historical perspective
I have heard people talk about soul searching, but that is like finding a needle in a haystack. Were do you start? Well first you have to set the stage that was made for your experience. Look at historical events and how they led to now. Observe our culture within its proper historical context. The first half of the past millennium was spent under the thumb of the church; in the second half we became preoccupied with material comfort. Humanity established a grand project of exploring the world, using the tools of science, with the hope of getting a new answer to the meaning of life. While waiting for that answer to come in, attention turned to increasing material comfort. That project is now at an end--material comfort has been achieved, but we have lost touch with sources of meaning and fulfillment.
3. Subtle energy
There is an energy, previously undetected by science, that forms the basis of all things. Human perception of that energy starts with an increased awareness of beauty: people, animals, plants, ecosystems that have a high level of that energy appear particularly beautiful. By becoming aware of that energy, we become able to notice when and how we give and receive energy. Start to get acquainted with the subtle energy that infuses all things. With practice, you can learn to see or feel the energy around any living being and to project your own energy around it to give it strength.
4. Competition for energy
A fundamental assumption underlies most human interactions: we must compete for this energy, drawing it from others and protecting ourselves from others' attempts to draw it from us. This leads to some nasty interactions. An unconscious competition for energy underlies all conflicts. By dominating or manipulating others, we get the extra energy we think we need. Sure, it feels good - but both parties are damaged in the conflict.
5. Energy abundance
Competition is unnecessary because subtle energy exists in abundance. In particular, we can acquire more by eating plants which have high energy levels. (And we can ensure that the plants have high energy levels by paying attention to them, by giving them energy.) Being in a loving state not only connects our energy to the object of our love, but to a greater source of energy as well. This is the essence of mystical experience. The key to overcoming conflict in the world is the mystical experience, which is available to everyone. To nurture the mystical and build your energy, allow yourself to be filled with a sense of love.
6. Getting clear
This is the second stage of soul searching. In order to be in a state of love with the world on a regular basis, we have to let go of patterns of behavior we developed to take energy from others. Childhood traumas block our ability to fully experience the mystical. All humans, because of their upbringing, tend toward one of four control dramas: There are four control patterns or ways of causing others to give us energy, two actively demanding energy, two passively creating conditions in which energy is sent. "Active" control dramas include intimidation and interrogation - asking questions and then picking apart the answers. "Passive" control dramas include aloofness - creating an air of mystery that entices others to send energy--and "poor me"--creating a sense that if others don't provide energy, something awful will happen to the controller.
1. Intimidators steal energy from others by threat.
2. Interrogators steal it by judging and questioning.
3. Aloof people attract attention (and energy) to themselves by playing coy.
4. Poor me’s make us feel guilty and responsible for them.
We have to "get clear" of our control dramas. We must understand our parents' control dramas and how these shaped ours. Then we must learn what meaning our parents' lives had for us, and how this determines our own developmental work. The things we would change about our parents - individually and together - are what we need to work on in our own lives. Become aware of the family dynamics that created your control drama and you can focus on your essential question, which is how to make of your life a higher- level synthesis of your parents' lives.
7. Using intuition
Once cleared of traumas, you can build energy through contemplation and meditation, focus on you basic life question, and start riding a steady stream of intuitions, dreams, and synchronistic coincidences, all guiding you in the direction of your own evolution and transformation. Once we are aware of these answers, we need only watch for meaningful coincidences to show us how to act on them.
8. Relating to others
This insight comes in several pieces:
a) Children can be raised without control dramas if they have constant, undivided access to an adult who can give them the energy they need.
b) Development can be blocked by an "addiction to another person". The subtle energy has a male and female side. If you can access one and someone else the other, then for a short time the couple can be filled with energy. But the focus on the other person eventually cuts each off from the universal energy. The two begin competing for energy, restarting control dramas. This is the falling-in-love/ falling-out-of-love phenomenon.
c) Everyone who crosses our path has a message for us. We should give them energy and help them get clear so that they can accurately deliver the message.
d) Other people's control dramas will break down if we name them and refuse to play a role in them. That evolution can't be done alone, so begin to practice the new "Interpersonal Ethic" by uplifting those who cross your path. Talk to people who make spontaneous eye contact with you. Avoid co-dependent relationships. Be there for people. Call attention to other people's control dramas. In groups, speak when the spirit (instead of the ego) moves you.
9. Conscious evolution
Our purpose here is to evolve beyond this plane. Humans consciously participate in their evolution by living according to their intuition, which guides them in such a way as to increase their energy. Technology will do most of our work for us. As we begin to value spiritual insight more and more, we will pay those who bring it to us, and this will eventually replace the market economy and our need for paid employment
 

^happy

Member
Mysticals:
"To know enough to pray and do" Are you praying for the path to get back to Father/Love or what are you praying for?
 

bigvindaloo

Active Member
EnhancedSpirit said:
This question was not directed at me, but I have something on one of my websites that might fit this catagory. It is the outline of the nine insights found in Celestine Prophecy. I call it 9 steps to spiritual maturity.

1. Meaningful coincidences
Everybody's starting to look for more meaning in life. One of the first things you realize is that coincidences are meaningful. Things happen for a reason. Start paying closer attention to those seemingly "Chance Coincidences" - strange occurrences that feel like they were meant to happen. They are actually synchronistic events, they are like road signs, and following them will start you on your path to spiritual truth.
2. Historical perspective
I have heard people talk about soul searching, but that is like finding a needle in a haystack. Were do you start? Well first you have to set the stage that was made for your experience. Look at historical events and how they led to now. Observe our culture within its proper historical context. The first half of the past millennium was spent under the thumb of the church; in the second half we became preoccupied with material comfort. Humanity established a grand project of exploring the world, using the tools of science, with the hope of getting a new answer to the meaning of life. While waiting for that answer to come in, attention turned to increasing material comfort. That project is now at an end--material comfort has been achieved, but we have lost touch with sources of meaning and fulfillment.
3. Subtle energy
There is an energy, previously undetected by science, that forms the basis of all things. Human perception of that energy starts with an increased awareness of beauty: people, animals, plants, ecosystems that have a high level of that energy appear particularly beautiful. By becoming aware of that energy, we become able to notice when and how we give and receive energy. Start to get acquainted with the subtle energy that infuses all things. With practice, you can learn to see or feel the energy around any living being and to project your own energy around it to give it strength.
4. Competition for energy
A fundamental assumption underlies most human interactions: we must compete for this energy, drawing it from others and protecting ourselves from others' attempts to draw it from us. This leads to some nasty interactions. An unconscious competition for energy underlies all conflicts. By dominating or manipulating others, we get the extra energy we think we need. Sure, it feels good - but both parties are damaged in the conflict.
5. Energy abundance
Competition is unnecessary because subtle energy exists in abundance. In particular, we can acquire more by eating plants which have high energy levels. (And we can ensure that the plants have high energy levels by paying attention to them, by giving them energy.) Being in a loving state not only connects our energy to the object of our love, but to a greater source of energy as well. This is the essence of mystical experience. The key to overcoming conflict in the world is the mystical experience, which is available to everyone. To nurture the mystical and build your energy, allow yourself to be filled with a sense of love.
6. Getting clear
This is the second stage of soul searching. In order to be in a state of love with the world on a regular basis, we have to let go of patterns of behavior we developed to take energy from others. Childhood traumas block our ability to fully experience the mystical. All humans, because of their upbringing, tend toward one of four control dramas: There are four control patterns or ways of causing others to give us energy, two actively demanding energy, two passively creating conditions in which energy is sent. "Active" control dramas include intimidation and interrogation - asking questions and then picking apart the answers. "Passive" control dramas include aloofness - creating an air of mystery that entices others to send energy--and "poor me"--creating a sense that if others don't provide energy, something awful will happen to the controller.
1. Intimidators steal energy from others by threat.
2. Interrogators steal it by judging and questioning.
3. Aloof people attract attention (and energy) to themselves by playing coy.
4. Poor me’s make us feel guilty and responsible for them.
We have to "get clear" of our control dramas. We must understand our parents' control dramas and how these shaped ours. Then we must learn what meaning our parents' lives had for us, and how this determines our own developmental work. The things we would change about our parents - individually and together - are what we need to work on in our own lives. Become aware of the family dynamics that created your control drama and you can focus on your essential question, which is how to make of your life a higher- level synthesis of your parents' lives.
7. Using intuition
Once cleared of traumas, you can build energy through contemplation and meditation, focus on you basic life question, and start riding a steady stream of intuitions, dreams, and synchronistic coincidences, all guiding you in the direction of your own evolution and transformation. Once we are aware of these answers, we need only watch for meaningful coincidences to show us how to act on them.
8. Relating to others
This insight comes in several pieces:
a) Children can be raised without control dramas if they have constant, undivided access to an adult who can give them the energy they need.
b) Development can be blocked by an "addiction to another person". The subtle energy has a male and female side. If you can access one and someone else the other, then for a short time the couple can be filled with energy. But the focus on the other person eventually cuts each off from the universal energy. The two begin competing for energy, restarting control dramas. This is the falling-in-love/ falling-out-of-love phenomenon.
c) Everyone who crosses our path has a message for us. We should give them energy and help them get clear so that they can accurately deliver the message.
d) Other people's control dramas will break down if we name them and refuse to play a role in them. That evolution can't be done alone, so begin to practice the new "Interpersonal Ethic" by uplifting those who cross your path. Talk to people who make spontaneous eye contact with you. Avoid co-dependent relationships. Be there for people. Call attention to other people's control dramas. In groups, speak when the spirit (instead of the ego) moves you.
9. Conscious evolution
Our purpose here is to evolve beyond this plane. Humans consciously participate in their evolution by living according to their intuition, which guides them in such a way as to increase their energy. Technology will do most of our work for us. As we begin to value spiritual insight more and more, we will pay those who bring it to us, and this will eventually replace the market economy and our need for paid employment
Can you comment on where The Celestine Prophecy heads next. I read the book and found the first few parts intriguing. I was disappointed that the conclusion led me no-where special. However, whoever wrote had some insight into the path of spiritual knowledge. The river just seemed to run dry at some point.
 

bigvindaloo

Active Member
^happy said:
If we as souls have free will and choose to come to this earth influence.
If we are trapped here (sometimes many lifetimes) until we can let go of self and the pleasures of earth.
Would we try to get out or do we like the doninion games that are played here?
Would we choose to get back to father of such Love that we seldom get even a taste of on this earth plane? A place where souls connect as one in Love.
My question is when you die would you (given the choice) go back to father of love or be reborn here for another round of this earth plane because you love it so much?
All responses are appreciated.

Karma would decide where you go next time so work on generating positive karma in this present life if you believe you are coming back. The double benefit is undoubtedly that you will improve your current lot unless chance disaster interveins. Personally I love this earth and what she offers. Most of us are too crushed by our material circumstances too profit from our lives fully. I believe I was designed by karma/evolution to inhabit this earth. I love the air I breathe and would return for more gladly.
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
bigvindaloo said:
Can you comment on where The Celestine Prophecy heads next. I read the book and found the first few parts intriguing. I was disappointed that the conclusion led me no-where special. However, whoever wrote had some insight into the path of spiritual knowledge. The river just seemed to run dry at some point.
Yes, I was a little lost at the end of the book. I thought it got a little science fictionish. But I was really excited about the book and thought it had a lot of truth to it. Like the energy of the earth, and how we can make food crops that give us more energy, I came to the conclusion, that at the time, I was at 'insight 8'. I had to learn how to not get addicted to other people, and get my energy on the vertical, not the horizontal plane.

After reading the book, I started practicing being connected and staying connected. I have even been able to go invisible a few times. I talked to my brother about it. He said he read the book in college and thought the whole thing was ridiculous. While talking to him about it, he expressed his belief on coincidences being nothing special. That's when I realized he had not even reached the first insight, if he didn't understand the importance of coincidences, he was never going to understand the rest of the insights.

That's when I realized that just because I didn't get the end of the book, doesn't mean it's a bunch of whooo-ha, it just means I haven't fully achieved that level of growth, or understanding. It was after that when I started going invisible. The end of the book and the next book The Tenth Insight, is about learning how to stay connected despite the 'real world' distractions. It's about maintaining a higher vibration, and being able to overcome our material obstacles of space and time. I also believe it explains the rapture, and explains what happened to the Mayans.

This is all sounds a little kooky when I say it out loud, (or write it for others to read), but I promise you, I have been invisible. I do it to my kids quite a bit. It's funny to have them calling "mom, where are you", and I'm right in front of their face. Then to watch their surprise when I re-appear. Because I do not purposely seek to be invisible, I will just be so involved with something I'm doing or deep in meditation, I don't even realize I'm invisible until my kids call out looking for me.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Think of a round flat sea with waves of energy that flow from the center outward and islands of matter dotted throughout. As you go from the center of this sea outward the frequency of these waves slows and they spread out. These waves are space/time and they emanate from the center of the universe, God's home, which is non-space/time.

Heaven is not so easy.

If all sentient beings went straight to heaven after death then who would run the universe? Who would create livable worlds? Who would plant the genetic lifeforms for life experiments? Who would be the communicators, the messengers, the universal teachers and universal judges?

Angels only do some of this, ascending beings do the rest.

How can you go straight to heaven when you don't even know the language? Do you really think the rest of the universe speaks English?

What can you do to hurry the process? Open your mind. Think in universal terms rather than selfish ones.

What can you do to improve life on the planet? Increase the food supply. Increase the availability of fresh water for all. Make it more beautiful. Help find a cure for disease. Buy books and donate them to a school. Help build affordable housing. Plant a garden.

Physically become involved with these things, donating money is not enough. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Do not anger easily. And smile more.

The fallen one is not winning anywhere. This is not possible. It is like an ant fighting the sun. People's choice is winning on the earth, free will is not an invention of the devil.

Ascending to heaven without dying is theoretically possible but in reality it never happens.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
^My question is when you die would you (given the choice) go back to father of love or be reborn here for another round of this earth plane because you love it so much?[/quote said:
Greetings!

I'm a Baha'i, and the Baha'i scriptures make it quite clear that we all return to God, and further that there is no such thing as reincarnation!

This life is a time of preparation for the Next Life, which will be eternal and far more wonderful than we can describe! . . .

Best,

Bruce
 

^happy

Member
bigvindaloo,
can you tell me why you would choose this earth plane of increasing atrosities and dominion rather than Father/love? Does the tickle/pleasures here please you enough to forever give up the love of father
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
^happy said:
to enhanced spirit, I believe it to be true that we choose to come back again and again. My understanding is we come back because we like the dominion or the tickle(pleasures) here. Could you explain what "perfect myself" means.
Thank you
happy
There is a lot to say about the experiences that this earthly existence has to offer and I do believe that the choice is available to everyone if they so desire to return but we should not forget that there are other physical existences that offer other different expereiences and challenges. To say that earth is the only physical existence to incarnate into is just like suggesting that humans are the only intelligent BEings in the universe.
 

^happy

Member
Bruce D Limber
"IF" (pretent for a moment) the choices were Love back to Father or Dominion (this earth plane) which would you choose?
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
^happy said:
Seyorni,
Can you elaborate on Progressive levels of consciousness?

The goal and focus of the "Eastern" religions is the development of higher states of consciousness.
We currently experience three levels of consciousness: Deep sleep (apparently no consciousness), Dreaming sleep (REM), and waking state, the latter two very limited, illusory states.
It is possible to wake up to worlds and perceptions beyond the 3-dimensional, time and space-bound realities of waking-state. There are 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th-state consciousnesses.

Also can you give me your view of "the real objective reality"

Objective, capitol "R" Reality is the multi-dimensional Universe as described by Physics. It is the world perceived by those in 6th or 7th-state consciousnesses.

Is it possible to leave the earth plane by choosing Love instead of Dominion (The I gottcha attidude that seems abundant here) and willing to leave the tickle/pleasures behind as well?

There are many exercises (yogas) used to induce higher states of consciousness. They are quite individualized. What is effective for one is useless for another.
In Hinduism, the path of love is Bhakti. It is a very popular modality.
 

bigvindaloo

Active Member
^happy said:
bigvindaloo,
can you tell me why you would choose this earth plane of increasing atrosities and dominion rather than Father/love? Does the tickle/pleasures here please you enough to forever give up the love of father

Im not sure these things are increasing. We have come a long way with respect to human rights in particular. However, these negatives are part of the human condition as long as we stick to a view of ourselves as apart from, ie observers of reality, and breed intolerance by refusing other perspectives. In particular, I believe the notion of Father and reincarnation in this thead are set up as polar opposites, they are not really accepting of one another. Otherwise life here is pretty damn good, I feel perfectly comfortable with my place existing on this planet, though not so comfortable with the level of dogmatism generated by human beings in a fruitless attempt to explain their existence here. That we should be so vein...
 

bunny1ohio

Active Member
^happy said:
If we as souls have free will and choose to come to this earth influence.
If we are trapped here (sometimes many lifetimes) until we can let go of self and the pleasures of earth.
Would we try to get out or do we like the doninion games that are played here?
Would we choose to get back to father of such Love that we seldom get even a taste of on this earth plane? A place where souls connect as one in Love.
My question is when you die would you (given the choice) go back to father of love or be reborn here for another round of this earth plane because you love it so much?
All responses are appreciated.

Hands down I would return over and over... voluntarily. Because I enjoy hardship and pain?... no... But there's a new song out on country radio if any of you listen to it. Its by Gary Allen... its called "life ain't always beautiful".... the main line to describe my feelings would be the one following that one.... "no life ain't always beautiful... but its a beautiful ride ". To me "perfection" like we are suuposed to have in heaven would be pale and lifeless and dull compared to what I have here. Without struggle and pain and growth the good things "eternal happines etc" would be pointless.
 
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