How were OT saints saved ??

[jtartar]

Hi to all and here is a good subject for spiritual bebate !!

How was Moses saved ??

Was it by Grace ?

Was it by Faith "

Was it by Faith and works ?

Could Moses be Lost , like many claim that we can be lost today ?
Since he killed and Egyptian ?

DAN P

Dan P,
You have asked a good question, but there is much more to this than you might think.
The saints mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures are not the same as the Saints in the Greek Scriptures. Maybe a more correct name for the Ancient believers in God would be chosen ones. The ones in the Hebrew Scriptures will go into the grave when they die, and wait for the time that Jesus will resurrect them back to life here on earth, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15.
The Saints mentioned in the Christian Greek Scriptures are ones who are going to heaven to be Co-rulers with Jesus, in the Thousand Year Judgement Day, Rev 2-:4-6.
These are spoken of as being Born from God, John 1:12,13. This means they are not born of the flesh, but of God, of spirit, which means they are going to be a New Creation, 2Cor 5:17, Gal 6:15. Since they are going to be in heaven with Jesus they are going to be Born Again, as spirit creatures, John 3:5,6. Notice too that no one had gone into heaven up to that time, John 3:13.
The way into heaven had not open until John the Baptist, Matt 11:12,13. Consider also what Luke wrote at Luke 16:16, the law and the prophets were until John, since John the Kingdom of God is what men are pressing for, 1Cor 15:50. Paul wrote the same at Heb 9:8. When Jesus died, the curtain, or veil was torn from top to bottom, which symbolized that the way to heaven was then open, Jesus" body symbolizing the curtain that divided the Holy from the Most Holy in the temple. The Most Holy, representing Heaven, Heb 10:19,20, 6:19,20. All the ones in the Hebrew Scriptures were Justified by Works. It was not meant to be that way. There were certain things that a person had to do if he committed a sin, such as bringing a lamb or calf to the priest and thay would kill thhe animal, and share with the offender the mean then the person would be forgiven of his sin. So the people just figures they could sin, and all they had to do was bring a scrifice and be forgiven, but God did not want the sacrifice, He want obedience, not sacrifice.
Because on one could obey the Mosaic Law Covenant, God had Jeremiah prophesy that God would make a New Covenant with the Jews, not like that Covenant, but God would write His laws in their hearts instead of on stone tablets, Luke 22:19,20, 2Cor 3:3-11, Heb 8:6-13. The Mosaic Law Covenant condemned to death all under it because no one could obey it perfectly, so Jesus removed the curse of the Law from all Jews by becoming a curse for them, Gal 3:10-14
Unter the New Covenant, we are under the Law of Faith, that is Faith in the Ransom Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Rom 3:27. Jesus died for all who have faith in him, John 3:16, and he thus took away sin from all the ones who believe on him, so that our sins are not charged against us, but are charged to the Ransom that Jesus gave, His life, 1Tim 2:4-6, Acts 13:38,39, Acts 4:12, Gal 2:16, Heb 10:14-18.

 

[Kapad]

What a shame that Outhouse felt the need to hijack a meaningful topic. While his own topic may hold some interest on its own, I hate to have to pass through all this off topic self-agrandizement to even try to follow the original post and topic.

As for the few answers I was able to sort out, it seems strange to me to think that if mere lamb blood on a doorpost has saving power, then God would be very cruel and thoughtless to sacrifice His own Son if a mere animal could get the job done.

It seems to me that the only mechanism for salvation whether you are Adam, Moses, Paul or President Obama is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It was anticipated by those in the Old Testament times, witnessed by some in the New Testament times, and holds efficacy for us today. That is what I would think to be the core belief that defines "Christianity."

 

[outhouse]

What a shame that Outhouse felt the need to hijack a meaningful topic. While his own topic may hold some interest on its own, I hate to have to pass through all this off topic self-agrandizement to even try to follow the original post and topic.

As for the few answers I was able to sort out, it seems strange to me to think that if mere lamb blood on a doorpost has saving power, then God would be very cruel and thoughtless to sacrifice His own Son if a mere animal could get the job done.

It seems to me that the only mechanism for salvation whether you are Adam, Moses, Paul or President Obama is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It was anticipated by those in the Old Testament times, witnessed by some in the New Testament times, and holds efficacy for us today. That is what I would think to be the core belief that defines "Christianity."

welcome to the site


before you start off, maybe it would help to decide if you want to discuss history within theology and mythology itself, or real actual history.

 

[CG Didymus]

In the things that I've read, the apples of the Christian view of salvation has nothing to do with the oranges of the Jewish view of salvation. If a Jew does his best and repents when he goes off the mark, he's forgiven. He is commanded to love God with all his heart, to love his neighbor etc. Does he do it perfectly? No. Does anybody? No. But, he's doing the best he can.
For the Christian, that person's righteousness is like filthy rags. That person is stuck following a bunch of useless laws and rituals. The Christians is washed clean. He is going to go to heaven and be admitted because Jesus paid the price for his short-comings. Does that Christian believe perfectly or act perfectly? No. How do we know he believes enough in Jesus to be saved? By his actions? His behavior that falls short of perfection? How does he know his deeds reflect a saving knowledge of Jesus?
Both the Jew and the Christian are doing the best they can. Both believe in a God and a God-given plan for how they should act. The plans are completely different and difficult to compare, yet, the Christian tries to make them fit perfectly. I guess. Or, is apples mixed with oranges something different? The two juiced together sounds good. Maybe that's what Christianity has done. They juiced the two and threw out the pulp and the seeds and call it good?

 

[JayJayDee]

Before this question can be addressed with any clarity....first we have to know what "salvation" means..both to a Jew AND to a Christian.

Was the salvation that the Jews believed in, (1 Chron 11:5; Isa 45:15-17; Deut 33:29) the same one that Christians were taught? (Acts 4:12; Rom 10:9, 10)

According to their understanding....who was getting "saved" from what?

 

[The Immortal]

How was Moses saved ?? Was it by Grace ? Was it by Faith " Was it by Faith and works ?

Could Moses be Lost , like many claim that we can be lost today ?
Since he killed and Egyptian ?

To address this properly we must define terms. What is meant by the term saint? Do you use it to mean one that has been sanctified or do you mean something else?

When asking about OT people and being saved the question is; from what?