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How Religions Start

A. Ben-Shema

Active Member
This account is merely my opinion of how religions actually start. I would like to hear what others think about this.

All the world’s major religions originated from a misguided attachment
to a genuine Spiritual Master. During the lifetime of such a Master, there are basically two categories of follower / disciple. Firstly, there are the “outsiders” or “believers” – those who listen to the Master’s words and accept and follow Him, and have great respect and adoration for Him, but who do not actually receive the Sacred Spiritual Gift – Initiation into the Mysteries of God – and do not understand about the continual succession of Masters who reveal those Mysteries.
Then there is the “inner core” of “gnostics” – those (by comparison, few in numbers) who are deemed worthy by the Master to be initiated into the Sacred Mysteries
, and who thus understand the process of revelation (personal initiation) through a continuous chain of Masters. When a Master dies, His initiated disciples know that God will appoint another in his place, and thus will go to follow Him. But many (generally those “outsiders”/”believers”, who are so attached to the memory of their now dead Master, that they do not accept or even look for a new 'living' Master) merely hold on to cherished memories of their now deceased Master, and pass on stories of His life to others. As these stories are orally related from one to another, they become enhanced, expanded, and embellished (e.g. with many miracles and wonders, which simple and immature people like to hear). These stories rarely tell of the one real miracle and wonder: the Mystical/Spiritual Revelation given by the Master, which leads to True Eternal LIFE – this is only known and experienced by the ‘elect’ (i.e. the “chosen ones”). Eventually, as these original followers (the “outsiders”) die, it becomes necessary for the new developing religion to collect and preserve these oral stories in written form.[1] The next step in the process is when the so-called educated (intellectual) theologians take over, and formulate the ideology and structure of yet another smug worldly orthodoxy.[2] At this point, as the congregation grows, and monetary donations come flooding in, the new “orthodox” religion slowly becomes powerful, wealthy, and political, and begins condemning all others – even, and especially, the genuine “chosen ones” (Gnostics) who follow the true living Master.[3] It is, in fact, these so-called orthodoxies which should be called heresy!

As time passes, various theologians come up with new ideas and beliefs
about this or that meaning of the written scripture. Thus, over time, a variety of creeds, sects, cults, and divisions emerge. This process can be clearly observed within the history of every religion. The truth of the 'living' Messiah is rejected by all, and the churches of satan continue to rule the world.
__________________________
Footnotes:

[1] A very important question should here be considered: If it was so important for an accurate record of Jesus’ life and teachings to be preserved, then why did He not write it Himself? This would have avoided any ambiguity and confusion as to the truth of the variant stories (at least as far as Christians are concerned) and alleviated the necessity of Biblical criticism. The answer is that, as a living Master is always present on Earth, there is no necessity for historical stories about any previous Master.

[2] This is precisely where Saul (St. Paul) came into the story!

[3] The true followers of God are ALWAYS rejected, despised, ridiculed, or persecuted by the ‘orthodox’ administrators of this world. See e.g. ISAIAH 51:7; MATT.5:10-12; 10:16-23; MARK 13:9; LUKE 6:22; & JOHN 15:20-21.





 

MaddLlama

Obstructor of justice
Most if not all religions started with stories passed down orally. I highly doubt that within a given religion all the stories originated with one source and rolled on from there.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Most if not all religions started with stories passed down orally. I highly doubt that within a given religion all the stories originated with one source and rolled on from there.

Definately not all of them.

Possibly most, but then in ancient times oral transmission of knowledge was not uncommon. Our culture has a preference for the written forms, but anyone from Somalia can tell you that oral transmission can be quite effective.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
"Initiation into the Mysteries of God "

Okay, this is highly elitist. It says only SOME may gain knowledge of God. I find that to be contrary to the message of all those Great Prophets.

i agree it is possible to become so enamored of the lamp that one forgets it is the light that is the object of love, not the vessel which provides the flame.

That is why Jews could not accept Christ. Or Jews and Christians not accept Muhammad, etc.., etc.

Regards,
Scott
 

Runt

Well-Known Member
Well, I suppose there are a few ways for a religion to start, which can involve all or part of the following:

1) Genuine revelation (Eliade, and countless others)
2) A charismatic leader whose message attracts followers
3) An attempt to explain a mysterious occurance which appears to defy the laws of reason (Tylor and Frazer, also Malinowski I think)
4) Animism (Tylor)
5) Totemism (Durkheim---he'd go on to say that the first religion WAS totemism, which was itself the worship of society)
6) Magical practices (Tylor/Frazer)
7) Practices designed to bind society together (Durkheim)
8) Delusion (Freud) or illusion (Jung, I think) and neurosis
9) "Primal hordes" trying to atone for the sin of killing their father to sleep with their mother (Freud, lmao :rolleyes: )

My issue with your explanation is that it sounds PAINFULLY perennialist. It assumes that there is a common core to all religions, rather than allowing that each religion may, in fact, be unique and valid. It is philosophically disingenuous to ignore or underemphasize the differences between individual religions in an attempt to suggest that all religions provide insights into the same underlying metaphysical reality. There is no support for such an assertion other than “faith”.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
Speaking of which, how does that work Ben? Were Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah Masters? Who came after them? Ahmadi? How about that guy in New Mexico who claims to be the Maitreya? Are there lots of them around now?
 

witness

New Member
Hey Ben, you have very accurately described the rise of the Catholic church that I was brought up in but fortunately have now fully recovered from. Good question, why didn't Jesus write his own gospel? My theory is that Jesus figured out that all his words of wisdom were simply no-brainers.
"Even the least amongst you can do all I can do"
Think about it. You shed off all doubt and it really is a no brainer.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Hey Ben, you have very accurately described the rise of the Catholic church that I was brought up in but fortunately have now fully recovered from. Good question, why didn't Jesus write his own gospel? My theory is that Jesus figured out that all his words of wisdom were simply no-brainers.

Or maybe he didn't write it down himself simply because he was wandering about the countryside for the three years he was teaching.
 

A. Ben-Shema

Active Member
He talked, they all took notes.

I presume you are joking - yes? :rolleyes:

Firstly, very very few of the common people were literate. Possibly only Matthew (the tax collector), among Jesus' Apostles, would have been able to write. Secondly, one needed all the (office) equipment - papyrus scroll, liquid ink pot, writing implement, table.

Peace & Love :)

 

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
I presume you are joking - yes? :rolleyes:

Firstly, very very few of the common people were literate. Possibly only Matthew (the tax collector), among Jesus' Apostles, would have been able to write. Secondly, one needed all the (office) equipment - papyrus scroll, liquid ink pot, writing implement, table.

Peace & Love :)


I was joking(I tend to have some dry humor).
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
He talked, they all took notes.

There's more to it than humor.

Muhammad recited, His followers took notes on all kinds of things from palm leaves to sheep bones. Then they committed the recitation to memory til there were dozens who could recite the Qur'an in its entirey. After Muhammad passed on, it was found necessary to standardize the recitation to a single form and declare that the Qur'an.

Oral tradition is not necessarily rife with error. Homer did not write anything down, after all, and his epics remain much as they were spoken millenia ago.

Regards,
Scott
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
He talked, they all took notes.

I know you were joking, but I'll give you a serious answer anyway.

Well, there's precedent for prophets as far as that goes. The Qu'ran was later compiled from notes like that, for example.

However, you'd expect to see some mention of it in early Christian tradition, as those mentions are there in Islam. No mentions, though, at least not that I've heard of.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Your footnote #2 is unsubstantiated. The Pauline epistles are probably older than any of the written "Gospels" and perhaps older than the stories in which Jesus Christ is literally a man.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
doppelgänger;893544 said:
How would we know that? I don't think those epics were even written by Homer, but by another man of that same name.

Have you been reading "Science made Stupid?" :D
 

Angelfire

Member
This account is merely my opinion of how religions actually start. I would like to hear what others think about this.

All the world’s major religions originated from a misguided attachment
to a genuine Spiritual Master. During the lifetime of such a Master, there are basically two categories of follower / disciple. Firstly, there are the “outsiders” or “believers” – those who listen to the Master’s words and accept and follow Him, and have great respect and adoration for Him, but who do not actually receive the Sacred Spiritual Gift – Initiation into the Mysteries of God – and do not understand about the continual succession of Masters who reveal those Mysteries.
Then there is the “inner core” of “gnostics” – those (by comparison, few in numbers) who are deemed worthy by the Master to be initiated into the Sacred Mysteries
, and who thus understand the process of revelation (personal initiation) through a continuous chain of Masters. When a Master dies, His initiated disciples know that God will appoint another in his place, and thus will go to follow Him. But many (generally those “outsiders”/”believers”, who are so attached to the memory of their now dead Master, that they do not accept or even look for a new 'living' Master) merely hold on to cherished memories of their now deceased Master, and pass on stories of His life to others. As these stories are orally related from one to another, they become enhanced, expanded, and embellished (e.g. with many miracles and wonders, which simple and immature people like to hear). These stories rarely tell of the one real miracle and wonder: the Mystical/Spiritual Revelation given by the Master, which leads to True Eternal LIFE – this is only known and experienced by the ‘elect’ (i.e. the “chosen ones”). Eventually, as these original followers (the “outsiders”) die, it becomes necessary for the new developing religion to collect and preserve these oral stories in written form.[1] The next step in the process is when the so-called educated (intellectual) theologians take over, and formulate the ideology and structure of yet another smug worldly orthodoxy.[2] At this point, as the congregation grows, and monetary donations come flooding in, the new “orthodox” religion slowly becomes powerful, wealthy, and political, and begins condemning all others – even, and especially, the genuine “chosen ones” (Gnostics) who follow the true living Master.[3] It is, in fact, these so-called orthodoxies which should be called heresy!

As time passes, various theologians come up with new ideas and beliefs
about this or that meaning of the written scripture. Thus, over time, a variety of creeds, sects, cults, and divisions emerge. This process can be clearly observed within the history of every religion. The truth of the 'living' Messiah is rejected by all, and the churches of satan continue to rule the world.
__________________________
Footnotes:

[1] A very important question should here be considered: If it was so important for an accurate record of Jesus’ life and teachings to be preserved, then why did He not write it Himself? This would have avoided any ambiguity and confusion as to the truth of the variant stories (at least as far as Christians are concerned) and alleviated the necessity of Biblical criticism. The answer is that, as a living Master is always present on Earth, there is no necessity for historical stories about any previous Master.

[2] This is precisely where Saul (St. Paul) came into the story!

[3] The true followers of God are ALWAYS rejected, despised, ridiculed, or persecuted by the ‘orthodox’ administrators of this world. See e.g. ISAIAH 51:7; MATT.5:10-12; 10:16-23; MARK 13:9; LUKE 6:22; & JOHN 15:20-21.










Jesus didnt need to write anything down, he told his disciples that when he had gone
the Holy Spirit within them would bring to remembrance all he had told them.






peace
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I presume you are joking - yes? :rolleyes:

Firstly, very very few of the common people were literate. Possibly only Matthew (the tax collector), among Jesus' Apostles, would have been able to write. Secondly, one needed all the (office) equipment - papyrus scroll, liquid ink pot, writing implement, table.

Peace & Love :)

papyrus scrolls degrade with time, besides, Jesus wanted us to have faith in God - he didn't feel the need to write you proof of his existence.
 
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