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How old was A'isha when she married Prophet Muhammad? New Evidence.

Aamer

Truth Seeker
I have never believed that A'isha was 9 or 6 or 12 at the time of her marriage to the Prophet Muhammad. As those Hadith books containing these reports were compiled 300 years later with possible political agendas behind them. Also, it doesn't confirm with marriage requirements in Quran. Always smelled like a lie to me but now there is evidence to her actual age from history books documented long before Hadith books came out. Her real age at the time of marriage? Probably 19. Watch the video below for details.

[youtube]iqJfiAbG8S8[/youtube]
Was Ayesha (rta) 9 Years Old at the time of her marriage? (Some Misconceptions) - YouTube
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
There are many dates and not only 19 moreover people back then did not know most of the time how old or young they were.

Just pointing out..
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
What a joke. So much for "evidence". All I saw was a madman making baseless claims.

What I find interesting though is that a Qur'anist who believes that the written work of scholars who lived much latter than the Prophet and his Sahaba are actual evidence when in reality Qur'anists reject such books.

I see that as hypocrisy and dishonesty. You seem to be desperate at trying to find something that isn't there simply because you can't accept the facts for what they are.

Moreover, Ibn Hazm rahimahullah was born much latter than Imam Bukhari rahimahullah, in fact he was born way after Imam Bukharis death.

So this proves that Shehzad Saleem and those unnamed "researchers" who make no mention of the names of those "history books" are all dishonest liars who seek to distort the truth and bring about misconceptions and confusion.
 
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Aamer

Truth Seeker
Pastek,
Thanks for sharing that video. It's loaded with information and what a great feeling to see Prophet Muhammad cleared of false accusations against him.

Gharib,
As a Quranist, I only trust Quran as my source for faith. It's the only scripture I use as the base for my religion because it's the only book whose authenticity I can be certain of. That doesn't mean I reject every other book ever written as false. Hadith and history books can be useful to understand the past. I just won't accept them as fact and base my religious beliefs on them. It seems you haven't looked at all the evidence. Watch the video Pastek posted. Maybe you have already committed to believing Aisha was 6 or 9 at the time of her marriage because that's what Hadith tell you. And your scholars have told you that if you don't accept these books as 100% fact, infallible scriptures, then they will label you a Kaffir. If that's the case, I can't help you. If you want to look at history with an open mind, there's more evidence pointing to her being much older than commonly believed. People assume that because I don't accept Hadith as part of Islam, that it somehow shows disrespect to Prophet Muhammad. The truth is I have way to much love and respect for him to accept disrespectful lies about him. Muslims get so angry when some non believer makes a horrible, offensive movie about our prophet. Maybe we should look in the mirror first and examine the lies written about him by other Muslims. And I'm not saying all Hadith are lies. I'm sure there is plenty of truth in them too. But I've seen far too many "Sahih" Hadith that are contradictory and even disrespectful. So this makes it unreliable as a source of religion for me to accept. Just like i can't accept the Bible as being infallible, i can't accept Hadith either. I don't care if the scholars tell me I have to. On the day of judgment, they won't be there for me to hide behind. We are all individually accountable. You have your beliefs and I have mine. God bless!
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
In this video, they precise were to find the ahadith

[youtube]tXaw9UZlK_I[/youtube]
Islam: What Was The Age Of Aisha (RA) When She Got Married ? - YouTube
I don't think we can dismiss the Hadiths that are narrated they have a solid Isnad and Matn i have double checked this. I also belief that Aicha(ra) was older then 9 i just think the problem is that people did not know how old someone was and not even knowing there own age. Its unislamic to even celebrate your birthday and surely 1433 years ago nobody knew hes exact age. Even in this time in some countries people do not know how old they are until they open there passports.
 
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Pastek

Sunni muslim
Pastek,
Thanks for sharing that video. It's loaded with information and what a great feeling to see Prophet Muhammad cleared of false accusations against him.

You're welcome. Honestly, i was like you, having doubts about the age of Aicha.
But i've seen many videos about it, and it confirmed my doubts.
I'm not a Quranist, but i appreciate evidences and logic.

I don't think we can dismiss the Hadiths that are narrated they have a solid Isnad and Matn i have double checked this. I also belief that Aicha(ra) was older then 9 i just think the problem is that people did not know how old someone was and not even knowing there own age. Its unislamic to even celebrate your birthday and surely 1433 years ago nobody knew hes exact age. Even in this time in some countries people do not know how old they are until they open there passports.

Agree.

I've found this video, i think you understand french Fouad, right ?
It's very informative.

For those who don't understand, the man says that people have a different way to count. And that arabs used to give a number, (for exemple 6 or 9 ), but it's understood by them as "after a certain number". So, adding a number after 10 or 100 or 1,000. They have kind a base to calculate.

[youtube]WTQfCXO_D3M[/youtube]
Ultime réponse pour les islamophobes conçernant l'âge de Aicha - YouTube
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
My limited understanding is they start counting your age when you accepted your faith. Say if you where 12 when you did this, a 9 year old would be 21.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Can I see actual hadith with reference in support of the view that Aisha radiallahu anha was older than what the Sahih Ahadith of Imam Bukhari say.
 

Aamer

Truth Seeker
Fouad,
I agree that people did not keep accurate count of their ages in Arabia in those days. There were no birthday parties and passports. These are relatively modern inventions. So we will never know her exact age but there is a huge difference between 9 & 19. From what I can see, evidence points to get being closer to 19 (of marriageable age) at the time of her wedding to the Prophet.

As for Hadith, from my experience, I have seen 3 types of Sunni Muslims (and I used to be Sunni btw)...
1) The Logical: Those who use the Hadith to help them define in more detail how to practice their religion. These people have good intention and are also smart enough to discard the contradictory and unreliable Hadith that don't support the Quran or go against it.
2) The Know-Nothing: This category has no interest in investigating the truth. They are consumed by worldly life and only believe in Sunni Islam because their mommy and Daddy told them they have to. If they were born into a Catholic family, they would follow that religion without questioning anything as well.
3) The Brainless & Brainwashed: They believe hard core in their beliefs but not because they used reason and came to a logical conclusion. They believe because they trust their Imams and scholars 100%. Even if something makes zero sense, they will follow it because their scholars told them they have to.

I have no problem with category #1. It's categories 2 & 3 that I have issue with. It should also be noted that less than 1% of Muslims have read the entire Quran in a language they understand. God sent us a book. His direct words. A message to us. What a blessing! Yet 99% of Muslims just have it sitting somewhere in their house collecting dust. So I think it's important that we all read it and then follow the path we feel brings us closer to Allah. No 2 Muslims will ever be the same. And that's okay as long as we can agree that Quran is from Allah. You feel the need for Hadith. I don't. That's okay. There can still be a mutual respect as long as the two individuals can agree on the bigger issue, which is authenticity of Quran being the word of Allah. Just my opinion.
 

Aamer

Truth Seeker
Can I see actual hadith with reference in support of the view that Aisha radiallahu anha was older than what the Sahih Ahadith of Imam Bukhari say.

Gharib,
Please note. You will not find any Hadith that clearly states her age being 18-23. However, the Hadith you will find stating she was 9, their reliability is being called into question. And you will plenty of Hadith and historical sources indicating that she was much older at the time of her marriage than commonly believed. Now if you can look at all the sources and do some basic math, you can decide for yourself what makes sense. I am stating what I know to the best of my knowledge. May Allah forgive me if I have made any errors. Please verify the sources for yourself.

First point: The reliability of hadith narrated through Hisham from Iraqi's is being called into question.

"Yaqub ibn Shaibah says: He [Hisham] is highly reliable, his narratives are acceptable, except what he narrated after moving over to Iraq." (Tehzi'bu'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`asqala'ni, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol 11, pg 50)

"I have been told that Malik [ibn Anas] objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq." (Tehzi'bu'l-tehzi'b, Ibn Hajar Al-`asqala'ni, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-Islami, Vol 11, pg 50)

Second Point: Aisha's age at different points in history...

"Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)

Surah 54 was revealed NINE years before Hijrah. And she married the Prophet 1 or 2 years after Hijrah. So she was a young girl 10-11 years before marriage. Now I'm no math wizard but how could she then be 6 or 9 at the time of her marriage? Simple Math!

Third Point: Aisha's age during Battle of Uhud.

A narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) participation in Badr is given in Muslim, Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Arabic, Bab karahiyati'l-isti`anah fi'l-ghazwi bikafir. Ayesha (ra) while narrating the journey to Badr and one of the important events that took place in that journey, says:
"when we reached Shajarah". It is quite obvious from these words that Ayesha (ra) was with the group travelling towards Badr.

A narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of `uhud is given in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-jihad wa'l-siyar, Bab Ghazwi'l-nisa' wa qitalihinna ma`a'lrijal.

Anas reports that On the day of Uhud, people could not stand their ground around the Prophet (pbuh). [On that day,] I saw Ayesha (ra) and Umm-i-Sulaim (ra), they had pulled their dress up from their feet [to avoid any hinderance in their movement]."

As far as the fact that children below 15 years were sent back and were not allowed to particpate in the battle of `uhud, it is narrated in Bukhari, Kitabu'l-maghazi, Bab ghazwati'l-khandaq wa hiya'l-ahza'b, Arabic
Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation."

It's clear that Aisha was present at the Battle of Uhud and it seems highly unlikely that the Prophet would let a child under the age of 15 participate in any way.

Fourth Point: Using Asma's age to determine Aisha's age at different points.

According to Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd:
Asma (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha. (Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol 2, Pg 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah)

According to Ibn Kathir:
"she [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years". (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 371, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah)

According to Ibn Kathir:
"She [Asma] saw the killing of her son during that year [i.e. 73 AH], as we have already mentioned, five days later she herself died, according to other narratives her death was not five but ten or twenty or a few days over twenty or a hundred days later. The most well known narrative is that of hundred days later. At the time of her death, she was 100 years old." (Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 372, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah)

According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani:
"She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif)

Lets Do some Math:
If Asma was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aisha should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Aisha, if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

"All four of his [Abu Bakr's] children were born of his two wives -- the names of whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period."(Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, Vol 4, Pg 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr)

In conclusion,
That's some of the evidence. If I had more time I would continue posting details. However now I think both sides of the argument are out there and logical minded people can make up their minds as to which they want to believe. God bless.
 

Pink Top Hat

Active Member
There are many dates and not only 19 moreover people back then did not know most of the time how old or young they were.

Just pointing out..
nonsense!

what age was the prophet when he died? what age was Kahadijah when she married him?

I hate when people write stuff like this distorting facts :facepalm:
 

Pink Top Hat

Active Member
Fouad,
I agree that people did not keep accurate count of their ages in Arabia in those days. There were no birthday parties and passports. These are relatively modern inventions. So we will never know her exact age but there is a huge difference between 9 & 19. From what I can see, evidence points to get being closer to 19 (of marriageable age) at the time of her wedding to the Prophet.

As for Hadith, from my experience, I have seen 3 types of Sunni Muslims (and I used to be Sunni btw)...
1) The Logical: Those who use the Hadith to help them define in more detail how to practice their religion. These people have good intention and are also smart enough to discard the contradictory and unreliable Hadith that don't support the Quran or go against it.
2) The Know-Nothing: This category has no interest in investigating the truth. They are consumed by worldly life and only believe in Sunni Islam because their mommy and Daddy told them they have to. If they were born into a Catholic family, they would follow that religion without questioning anything as well.
3) The Brainless & Brainwashed: They believe hard core in their beliefs but not because they used reason and came to a logical conclusion. They believe because they trust their Imams and scholars 100%. Even if something makes zero sense, they will follow it because their scholars told them they have to.

I have no problem with category #1. It's categories 2 & 3 that I have issue with. It should also be noted that less than 1% of Muslims have read the entire Quran in a language they understand. God sent us a book. His direct words. A message to us. What a blessing! Yet 99% of Muslims just have it sitting somewhere in their house collecting dust. So I think it's important that we all read it and then follow the path we feel brings us closer to Allah. No 2 Muslims will ever be the same. And that's okay as long as we can agree that Quran is from Allah. You feel the need for Hadith. I don't. That's okay. There can still be a mutual respect as long as the two individuals can agree on the bigger issue, which is authenticity of Quran being the word of Allah. Just my opinion.


completely agree

too many number 3 brainwashed ignorant distorters out there calling themselves Muslims who would not last one minute in the company of the prophet of Islam.
 

noh950

Noh
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was 9 year old when she married the prophet peace be upon him, and this was a normal thing among the people of that time.
And please brothers, don't try to be philosopher in our religion, we have scriptures, Qur'an and Sunnah, they are both revelations from Allah the Almighty, and they are preserved by Him, and we have to accepts what was known authentic in books of the Sunnah.
May Allah the Almighty strengthen our faith and our knowledge.
 

Aamer

Truth Seeker
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was 9 year old when she married the prophet peace be upon him, and this was a normal thing among the people of that time.
And please brothers, don't try to be philosopher in our religion, we have scriptures, Qur'an and Sunnah, they are both revelations from Allah the Almighty, and they are preserved by Him, and we have to accepts what was known authentic in books of the Sunnah.
May Allah the Almighty strengthen our faith and our knowledge.

Quran is preserved by Allah. He said he would preserve it and history has proven that it has been protected from falsehood as there is only one Quran and it is free from contradictions. But where did Allah say he would protect Sunnah or Hadith? Please quote your sources. Provide evidence. Don't just repeat what you've been told by your clergy. Thanks.
 

Aamer

Truth Seeker
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was 9 year old when she married the prophet peace be upon him, and this was a normal thing among the people of that time.
And please brothers, don't try to be philosopher in our religion, we have scriptures, Qur'an and Sunnah, they are both revelations from Allah the Almighty, and they are preserved by Him, and we have to accepts what was known authentic in books of the Sunnah.
May Allah the Almighty strengthen our faith and our knowledge.

Try not to be a philosopher? How about try not to promote child molestation. The verses below talks about orphans but they clearly show that one must attain sound judgment and grow up before they are of marriageable age. Do you really believe that a 9 year old child who hasn't even reached puberty has fulfilled the requirements of marriageable age? Do you honestly believe it's ok for a grown man to have sex with a 9 year old child? And do you honestly believe that Prophet Muhammad, a blessing for mankind, would do such a thing? There is no evidence to support your claim that molesting children was the social norm in Arabia 1400 years ago. And even if it was, Prophet Muhammad would not participate in injustice. You can believe the word of 3 Iraqis. Even your Hadith books conflict with their account. But I think it would be better for you if you didn't insult the Prophet and accuse him of child molestation (Astagfur Allah)!

[4:5] Do not give the IMMATURE ONES your money, which God has entrusted to you. Spend on them from it and clothe them, and speak to them nicely.

[4:6] Test the orphans until they reach the AGE OF MARRIAGE, then if you determine in them SOUND JUDGMENT, then give them their wealth, and do not deliberately consume it wastefully or quickly BEFORE THEY GROW UP. Whoever is rich, then let him not claim anything, and if he is poor then let him consume only properly. If you give to them their wealth, then make a witness for them, and God is enough for Reckoning.
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
nonsense!

what age was the prophet when he died? what age was Kahadijah when she married him?

I hate when people write stuff like this distorting facts :facepalm:

First of all i never said they all didn't knew it i said there were several people, you forgot that the narrations of Aicha(ra)'s age is not narrated by so many different people in most only by two people.
 
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