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How Is Condemnation A Spiritual Path?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
It doesn't. Those are just "freebies" along the way.Sunstone said:
Having more intelligent answers to better questions has a lot to do with it, I suppose. In all fairness, though I tip my hand, I must say that I certainly do not think of many spiritual thinkers as very "deep thinkers". Sadly their words have almost as much impact as do those of Buddha, Krsna and Christ. Is there anyone I missed?
Nope.
Whenever I think religion, I always think of, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
What I am leaning towards is that there are different modes of understanding in our world and the various religions have "their place" in the thinking of their followers. It still doesn't mean they are right. It simply makes sense to them.
Which is better the unvarnished truth or window-dressing?
You can't get away with pursuing a spiritual path and not having arrived @ more considered and intelligent answers to the many problems that beset you along the way somehow.
Without condemnation, the Golden Rule of "Do unto others..." would be unenforacable, for example.
Is everything really okay? Then don't complain when you feel bad about **** done to you unjustly.
Without condemnation, the Golden Rule of "Do unto others..." would be unenforacable, for example.
Is everything really okay? Then don't complain when you feel bad about **** done to you unjustly.
MaddLlama
Obstructor of justice
Godlike said:
So, once you begin to find answers to spiritual questions, in order to grow you have to look down on those who haven't found the same answers as you have? "Do unto others" in a situation like this makes the world a more miserable place, not a better one.
Is making people miserable a higher spiritual calling for you?
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
NOK, NOK!
Who's there?
No one!
NOK= Not Our Kind
Condemnation is an "Us vs Them" mentality. They want to make SURE that those who don't believe the same way we do are punished. After all it's "only" right.
In reality, we all choose our own punishments. Some choose love and others choose hate.
Who's there?
No one!
NOK= Not Our Kind
Condemnation is an "Us vs Them" mentality. They want to make SURE that those who don't believe the same way we do are punished. After all it's "only" right.
In reality, we all choose our own punishments. Some choose love and others choose hate.
NetDoc said:
What he said.
And which is easier:
to judge others,
or
to love others.
Love is the awesome magnet that holds us together and draws others to the One True God whose essence is unconditional LOVE. His LOVE is the light of this world and the joy of our hearts. There is nothing as powerful and healing as love. LOVE is a medicine in short supply.
But.
I do believe in CONDEMNATION AS AN ACT OF LOVE:
Because there are times when it is a dire necessity. If we truly love all people then we are called to protect and defend the innocent. We MUST condemn oppressive regimes, ethnic hatred, extremism, brutality and genocide long and loud wherever we find it in the world. I believe there are those whose suffering is ignored and we don't have the luxury as a free and "loving" people to turn our backs on them. I know for a fact that in the name of religious extremism, there is an entire race being threatened daily with extermination. We do not have the right as "loving people" to ignore the threat and allow that to happen.
MaddLlama said:
The ONLY point I was making was that spiritual leaders, as any other leader in life, must make value judgements which necessarily exclude others, be they a sole dissenting opinion or a group of such dissenters. One cannot be a leader and avoid this, no matter how one tries: someone always feels disenchanted by what is decided to be the course or the norm.
Do you see now?
No leadership is possible in this life that is all-inclusive, thus no leadership is possible that does not wind up being disrespectful to an individual or group, who become the opposition.
This is the natural way of this life: strife and conflict are unavoidable.
Hope you understand, MaddLlama.
I was not trying to justify discompassion or a ruthless approach to other in spiritual life: the idea is to rise above that nonsense, of course.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
While "someone" might expect that, there is no real need for it. I loved the way Jesus put it:
John 8:1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11 "No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." NIV
Jesus loved people into his Kingdom. Perfect love casts out fear.
John 8:1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11 "No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." NIV
Jesus loved people into his Kingdom. Perfect love casts out fear.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Not yet, but I have been encouraged to live and love like him:Godlike said:
Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. NIV
II Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. NIV
That's good enough for me!
MaddLlama said:
It IS, that's my point. Geez...
But lesser men think otherwise, okay? Face the reality of it. Ego cannot be overcome for the VAST MAJORITY of human beings, and they work to promote their views in lieu of others opinions. It's just the way things are, unfortunately...
MaddLlama
Obstructor of justice
Godlike said:It IS, that's my point. Geez...
Well, it sounds to me like you're saying "that's jut the way things are, better to just accept it than try to be better."
Sarcasm doesn't translate well into this medium....better to just be clear and say what you mean than wax sarcastic and hope someone gets what you're saying.