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How important are humans to you?

Faint

Well-Known Member
If you're as bored as I am, perhaps you'd like to offer your opinion on the following "what if" scenarios:

1) Imagine that it's the distant future, and we have found a planet other than earth that can support life. Now let's say that this planet is inhabited by an intelligent alien species that does not want us humans to live on their world. These aliens have nothing against humanity, except that they have discovered that when humans breathe their air, we produce an airborne virus that is fatal to their kind. And if large amounts of humans move to their planet, we will in fact contaminate their atmosphere to such a degree that their entire race will die.

Also, let's say that earth at this point has become too screwed up to support us. So as humans we have the choice--we can either stay on earth and risk extinction, or travel to this other planet and cause the extinction of an alien species so that we may survive. Which option would you support?

2) Scientists have discovered the secret to immortality--it is killing other people. They have created a device (let's call it the "vampirator") which drains the life essence of another individual, then converts this essence to a single dose of a chemical which you then inject into yourself, which makes you immune to old age and disease. Thus, you can stay young and healthy forever. All you need to do is use this vampirator device once. But the catch is that the vampirator cannot be used on a dead body, and whoever you use the device on will die from the procedure. The company that sells vampirators will provide you with a free inmate on death row with your purchase of their product. This inmate will die so that you can have your dose of immortality. Would you buy and use this product?

Now, let's say that due to increased demand, the company has run out of death row inmates, but they have government approval to use cloned human babies (grown in labs, for use 1 week after they are "born"). Would you use the vampirator product now knowing that a baby less than a week old will die?

3) It turns out that God actually exists and he decides to offer you a deal. You have two options: first, God says that he wants to eliminate evil from the world and start over by putting humans back into the garden/paradise. To do this, he will completely obliterate all humans except for you and one other (your choice) of the opposite sex. The two of you will live for centuries in paradise and become the parents of a new human race--one without the capacity to do evil. In other words, over a billion people will die so that future generations of humanity will live without problems like murder, rape, assault, war, etc. However, those who initially die in this action will not be given access to heaven (or hell)--they will be entirely obliterated--souls and all.

Your second option is to do nothing, and allow things to continue as they are. Which option would you choose? Does the good of the (future) many outweigh the good of the (present) many?
 

standing_on_one_foot

Well-Known Member
1) Yes, I would move to the planet. However, I'd want us to a) continue to search for other planets we could live on and b) find some way to get humans to stop producing the virus or keep us from spreading it or find a way to make it non-fatal. I mean, we could just wear some sort of Darth Vader meets scuba gear breathing thing so we can breath and not spread disease.

2) No, I wouldn't use it, not on anyone.

3) Nah, I wouldn't go for it. Humanity's screwed up, sure, but I don't think it's worth destroying it (and the new race wouldn't be human anymore, the capacity to be nasty is a pretty fundamental part of the species).
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
1.) No, I don't think we should go to the othert planet. If we found that one we could find another. On the other hand...who's to say we wouldn't just screw that one up like we have this one. Perhaps we deserve our own just rewards. Depends on the circumstances.

2.) I don't know if I would even WANT to live forever. Kind of a scary prospect to me really. However, I wouldn't be all that opposed if people wanted to use it and it was being used on those who were to die anyway. Perhaps those fatally ill that want to go anyway. But I draw the line at using people (babies or not) manufactured for that purpose.

3.)The second option. I'm not going to be held responsible for the destruction of all there is. Nor do I want to be the responsible "parent" of the "new breed". Heck with that. Just leave things as they are. Screwed up? Yes. Possibly destroy ourselves? Yes. But let that not be my decision.
 

Ponder the Box

New Member
Yeah I'm pretty bored. Okay:

1) The world is screwed up I'd imagine because the human species destroyed it. It would be rather severely morally objectionable to condemn an entire race to extinction because the humans in power decided to have a nuclear war over... well, something to do with religion and/or politics lol. So no. I would die for the aliens if I had to and that's not a small decision since I am an Atheist who has no clue what death might bring.

2) Since the justice system all over the world is fallible we do not as people have the ability or the right to condemn another human to death so scratch the inmates. Sucking the essence out of babies with a 'vampirator'? I'll not even dignify that with an answer :). Anyhow this is a surefire method of reaching problem number one...

3) This is a no-brainer. Any god that would wipe out billions of people and on top of that remove an aspect of us that allows us to make a conscious choice to be answerable for our own actions is a god that I would avoid like the plague. Even if this scenario appealed to me I wouldn't EVER be able to decide who the other person would be.

Interesting. Thanks.

:)
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Faint said:
If you're as bored as I am, perhaps you'd like to offer your opinion on the following "what if" scenarios:

1) Imagine that it's the distant future, and we have found a planet other than earth that can support life. Now let's say that this planet is inhabited by an intelligent alien species that does not want us humans to live on their world. These aliens have nothing against humanity, except that they have discovered that when humans breathe their air, we produce an airborne virus that is fatal to their kind. And if large amounts of humans move to their planet, we will in fact contaminate their atmosphere to such a degree that their entire race will die.

Also, let's say that earth at this point has become too screwed up to support us. So as humans we have the choice--we can either stay on earth and risk extinction, or travel to this other planet and cause the extinction of an alien species so that we may survive. Which option would you support?
Very insightful!! My chioce = Death to the aliens!! :knockout2 :jam:

2) Scientists have discovered the secret to immortality--it is killing other people. They have created a device (let's call it the "vampirator") which drains the life essence of another individual, then converts this essence to a single dose of a chemical which you then inject into yourself, which makes you immune to old age and disease. Thus, you can stay young and healthy forever. All you need to do is use this vampirator device once. But the catch is that the vampirator cannot be used on a dead body, and whoever you use the device on will die from the procedure. The company that sells vampirators will provide you with a free inmate on death row with your purchase of their product. This inmate will die so that you can have your dose of immortality. Would you buy and use this product?
I would fight against it, but at first glance it does look cool to suck the life out of criminals (how about enemy combatants).

Now, let's say that due to increased demand, the company has run out of death row inmates, but they have government approval to use cloned human babies (grown in labs, for use 1 week after they are "born"). Would you use the vampirator product now knowing that a baby less than a week old will die?
If we could use a vampirator on clones, that would be really cool. Not fully developed babies, but IFV embryos that would normally be destroyed would be a great resource.

3) It turns out that God actually exists and he decides to offer you a deal. You have two options: first, God says that he wants to eliminate evil from the world and start over by putting humans back into the garden/paradise. To do this, he will completely obliterate all humans except for you and one other (your choice) of the opposite sex. The two of you will live for centuries in paradise and become the parents of a new human race--one without the capacity to do evil. In other words, over a billion people will die so that future generations of humanity will live without problems like murder, rape, assault, war, etc. However, those who initially die in this action will not be given access to heaven (or hell)--they will be entirely obliterated--souls and all.
Christianity already has something pretty similar to this situation. God destoys everything in the end....
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Faint said:
If you're as bored as I am, perhaps you'd like to offer your opinion on the following "what if" scenarios.
Senario 1: Aliens: :jam: Us: :eek: (Can u say "sitting ducks"?) *quack, qua..*

You did not indicate if said civilization was capable of space travel. My suggestion is that, if they were, we would have a very serious problem. Anyone knows the best way to nip a problem is at its source. Man would have to conquer said planet. It is difficult to imagine any landing craft being permitted to survive. We would carpet nuke the area, just to be sure we got them all, and I am sure they would do the same if given the capacity. If we were far more advanced technologically then it would be a great crime to overtake them. We are not worth it. Better to die in the dignity of our ignorance than ensure that our madness never ends.

Scenario 2: Physical reality would get "old" rather fast. I think it would become incredibly boring. Forever is an awefully long time.
"Just say no, YmirGF"
"Oh, ok..."
"Um.. No thanks."

Scenario 3:

*Starts humming*

They say we're young and we don't know
We won't find out until we're grown
Well I don't know if all that's true
'Cause you got me, and baby I got you

Babe
I got you babe
I got you babe


*humming fades out nicely*

"Asta la Vista Bebe",

PS: Sally and I will always love you and wish things had turned out differently. She sends her regards and she wanted me to tell you that you will always be fondly remembered. Have no doubt, we will tell many hilarious tales of the world that used to be. You will become the stuff of legends. Thanks for everything.

TheSponsor said:
We now return to regular programming, where tonight's feature "Eternity" is still in progress.
 

evearael

Well-Known Member
1) Own your actions, as an individual, as a species... It isn't ethical to murder someone and steal their liver to make up for your abuse of alcohol.
2) Part I - The beauty of life is in it's brevity. I do not long for immortality, just to be a good wife, a good mommy and be grateful for all of my blessings. Part II - I am absolutely against cloning for the purposes for harvesting. It is murder.
3) Do nothing. From the Desiderata (this is from memory, so please forgive if I screw this up...) "for all it's sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it's still a beautiful world." Good has no meaning without evil.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Let me answer the 2nd question first.

2) I've never wanted immortality, so I wouldn't even try it.

1) If the earth become extinct, then it would become extinct. As with the 2nd answer, I don't want to live forever, so going to another planet for survival is not an option that I would choose if it meant killing off another race of beings.

3) By all mean, let God destroy the world. Let's God become a destroyer, which he already is...that if you believe him. I am too cynical of the human race, and even more cynical of this so-called One God. I agree with everarel that "Good has no meaning without evil."

Do I sound fatalistic?
 

Flappycat

Well-Known Member
Faint said:
If you're as bored as I am, perhaps you'd like to offer your opinion on the following "what if" scenarios:

1) Imagine that it's the distant future, and we have found a planet other than earth that can support life. Now let's say that this planet is inhabited by an intelligent alien species that does not want us humans to live on their world. These aliens have nothing against humanity, except that they have discovered that when humans breathe their air, we produce an airborne virus that is fatal to their kind. And if large amounts of humans move to their planet, we will in fact contaminate their atmosphere to such a degree that their entire race will die.

Also, let's say that earth at this point has become too screwed up to support us. So as humans we have the choice--we can either stay on earth and risk extinction, or travel to this other planet and cause the extinction of an alien species so that we may survive. Which option would you support?
The humans because they happen to be from my village. If I personally knew and liked several of the aliens and went native, though, I think I'd be more likely to screw humanity than otherwise.

2) Scientists have discovered the secret to immortality--it is killing other people. They have created a device (let's call it the "vampirator") which drains the life essence of another individual, then converts this essence to a single dose of a chemical which you then inject into yourself, which makes you immune to old age and disease. Thus, you can stay young and healthy forever. All you need to do is use this vampirator device once. But the catch is that the vampirator cannot be used on a dead body, and whoever you use the device on will die from the procedure. The company that sells vampirators will provide you with a free inmate on death row with your purchase of their product. This inmate will die so that you can have your dose of immortality. Would you buy and use this product?
No. I don't have the stomach for it.

Now, let's say that due to increased demand, the company has run out of death row inmates, but they have government approval to use cloned human babies (grown in labs, for use 1 week after they are "born"). Would you use the vampirator product now knowing that a baby less than a week old will die?
I still wouldn't have the stomach for it.

3) It turns out that God actually exists and he decides to offer you a deal. You have two options: first, God says that he wants to eliminate evil from the world and start over by putting humans back into the garden/paradise. To do this, he will completely obliterate all humans except for you and one other (your choice) of the opposite sex. The two of you will live for centuries in paradise and become the parents of a new human race--one without the capacity to do evil. In other words, over a billion people will die so that future generations of humanity will live without problems like murder, rape, assault, war, etc. However, those who initially die in this action will not be given access to heaven (or hell)--they will be entirely obliterated--souls and all.
I'd probably offer him a taste of my size eleven.

Your second option is to do nothing, and allow things to continue as they are. Which option would you choose? Does the good of the (future) many outweigh the good of the (present) many?
It has more to do with me not having the stomach for it to be perfectly honest. I'm too proud to give up on present humanity that easily.
 

kreeden

Virus of the Mind
1 : Arm the aliens ...

2 : I'm already old . :) But I'm not sure that I want immortality . And in a world like that , I'm quite sure that I wouldn't .

3 : God , you've got the wrong guy . But lets talk about this thing called Free Will ....
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
YmirGF said:
Senario 1: Aliens: :jam: Us: :eek: (Can u say "sitting ducks"?) *quack, qua..*

You did not indicate if said civilization was capable of space travel. My suggestion is that, if they were, we would have a very serious problem. Anyone knows the best way to nip a problem is at its source. Man would have to conquer said planet. It is difficult to imagine any landing craft being permitted to survive. We would carpet nuke the area, just to be sure we got them all, and I am sure they would do the same if given the capacity. If we were far more advanced technologically then it would be a great crime to overtake them. We are not worth it. Better to die in the dignity of our ignorance than ensure that our madness never ends.

Scenario 2: Physical reality would get "old" rather fast. I think it would become incredibly boring. Forever is an awefully long time.
"Just say no, YmirGF"
"Oh, ok..."
"Um.. No thanks."

Scenario 3:

*Starts humming*

They say we're young and we don't know
We won't find out until we're grown
Well I don't know if all that's true
'Cause you got me, and baby I got you

Babe
I got you babe
I got you babe


*humming fades out nicely*

"Asta la Vista Bebe",

PS: Sally and I will always love you and wish things had turned out differently. She sends her regards and she wanted me to tell you that you will always be fondly remembered. Have no doubt, we will tell many hilarious tales of the world that used to be. You will become the stuff of legends. Thanks for everything.
:biglaugh: just when you thought you couldn't laugh any harder!!! Paul you da man!

God sends His Apologies to yourself and Sally but as I'm the younger (and prettier) of the two of us.... ;) Charlize will come round when she realises there's noone else left.
 

AquilaKit

Member
Wow...freaky ideas here...Let's see...

1) I would want to live. And if Earth couldn't support us anymore, then I would vote to go to the alien's planet. I wouldn't want them to die, though, so maybe we would be able to do a 'beta test' for it. Send perhaps, a few hundred humans to that planet and see how they fare in a certain period of time. If all things go well, then we can keep sending people up there. If things don't go well for the humans, aliens, or both, we get a few human leaders together to talk to some of the alien leaders and try to come to an agreement. OR we could stay on Earth and create a trading system with the alien's. This way we wouldn't have to kill them with the virus, and we could get technology, food, fresh water, and other such supplies from the aliens. However, if the Earth's atmosphere is unable to support us, then we would have to do something different...but I don't know what that would be.

2) Well, you can't change your mind. Once immortal, you can't go back. One would think you'd go insane after a few hundred years. One could always commit suicide if they really wanted to, I guess. So if you think about it that way, then sure, take the inmate's life and use it. After all, the inmate would be killed soon anyway. But babies... I wouldn't.

3) First of all, good cannot exist without evil. Sure, we have war, rape, murder and the like, but overall, we learn from our mistakes. Yes, lives are lost, but not nearly as many as would be lost if you accepted God's deal. And if I would have to be giving birth constantly to create a new human race, I would refuse instantly. I already have decided never to have a baby, and I certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for that. So I would refuse his deal and let humanity live as it does now.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
ChrisP said:
:biglaugh: just when you thought you couldn't laugh any harder!!! Paul you da man!

God sends His Apologies to yourself and Sally but as I'm the younger (and prettier) of the two of us.... ;) Charlize will come round when she realises there's noone else left.
Thanks Chris. I certainly enjoyed writing it... Pity no one else saw the humor.
 

Ormiston

Well-Known Member
I have to say this is a fun topic (call me morbid). As far as the aliens go, we all know history well enough to know that we're going there regardless of any moral objections. People are incapable of turning away from power, land, money, and, especially, a planet that would offer our species a prolonged existance. The aliens would all end up dead regardless of viral infection or anti-alien bombs. It's our nature.

Personally, I don't find killing the aliens or the vampire device to be morally wrong (I'm talking about my morals now so bear with me). I would definately get my hands on the vampire device ASAP, regardless of which of the two choices fueled it.

The last opportunity is the strangest and I think I would have to decline. Being stuck in Paradise with the same woman for centuries just doesn't sound like Paradise to me. But, being invited by God would certainly be awesome.
 

ButcherGEIN

Member
I believe that most humans in this day and age are worthless bags of living tissue who seek no higher knowledge of themselves and the world around them. They are content with working their *** off for a job that most likely could give two ****s about them. They line the pockets of the greedy and bow down like cowards hoping that one day some amazing force will come from beyond and offer them redemption from their mundane, yet self-inflicted existance. However, I know deep within myself that this isn't the case. We are in hell... we have to escape it by transcending the ideas of good and evil simply by following our true will. However, with all the people who proclaim their undying loyalty to religous systems which stifle human advancement, I see dark times coming on the horizon for all of us (thelemites included).
 

Maxist

Active Member
1) I do not beleive that I would have a choice in the matter, but ---if we have another Bush--- we will have a war with the beings. Although I would support it.

2) I would use the clones, I do not beleive that if we did have clones in society that they would be considereed 'human' and so would not have our rights.

3)
 
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