How do we conceive reality?

[Frog]

That is fair enough, although I would go a little further. If we take God to be perfect, omnipotent and absolute, he would be incapable of making a mistake. Anything he creates would therefore be a perfect expression of himself; as the universe is thus an extension of God, there is no higher divinity than that which we ordinarily perceive. God IS the universe; there is no need to have even any concept of God as something to be understood separate from or even through the universe.

This idea has stumped many. with every placid of the human mind exists a great chasm few dare cross.
We are cretinous beings with desires. As imperfect as we are we will try to understand absolute perfection through fractal eyes.

 

[Valjean]

THere was never any mention of intent by God.

So God did not intend to create, he had no desire to do so?
When one performs an action there is generally intent. If God deliberately creates something there is intent. It didn't happen by chance or accident.

 

[Frog]

What does the trinity have to do with unraveling "the mysteries of life." And what are "the mysteries of life," anyway?
Man's had religion for as long as anyone can remember, yet never managed to unravel any mysteries. It was only with the advent of science that any progress in understanding the world was achieved.

You forget that it is an inward journey. Nobody is handing it to you on a silver platter. Everything has been revealed. Western and eastern religions converged and sprouted ideas over a century ago.
Secret societies containing this wisdom are centuries old.

 

[Frog]

So God did not intend to create, he had no desire to do so?
When one performs an action there is generally intent. If God deliberately creates something there is intent. It didn't happen by chance or accident.

You forget the laws of nature.
Does a dog choose to be a dog?
Does a man choose to eat?
Do magnets choose to bounce away from one another? (I do not know the wording)
How do you assume God had any choice beyond what was natural? You don't.

God is the natural force behind everything.

 

[Caseus]

This idea has stumped many. with every placid of the human mind exists a great chasm few dare cross.
We are cretinous beings with desires. As imperfect as we are we will try to understand absolute perfection through fractal eyes.

And yet the 'fractal eyes' are themselves part of 'absolute perfection'. If we consider our perception to be distorted, we have forgotten that all reality is perfect manifestation of God (to put it in theistic terms).

There is no need to reach for some higher understanding. If we can accept reality just as it appears to us, we can realise it as true perfection.

 

[Frog]

And yet the 'fractal eyes' are themselves part of 'absolute perfection'. If we consider our perception to be distorted, we have forgotten that all reality is perfect manifestation of God (to put it in theistic terms).

There is no need to reach for some higher understanding. If we can accept reality just as it appears to us, we can realize it as true perfection.

What happens if we forget our purpose though?
Should our minds exist in the neutral state between the duality which they call the present moment,the eternal NOW?
THen all knowledge and wisdom would filter through you unabated and unsegregated directly from the point emerging.
The image starts then to emerge.

 

[Caseus]

What happens if we forget our purpose though? Can we exist in the neutral state between the duality which they call the present moment. The eternal NOW.
THen all knowledge and wisdom would filter through you.

I think it is possible to get too caught up in these abstract concepts. Nonetheless, the aim to exist in the present moment is meaningless. We cannot help existing in the present - if knowledge and wisdom, as you say, comes to those who live in the 'eternal now', we must already have these things.

If we have an aim of understanding, as thinking people inevitably do, the method should be to realise the fact that we already exist in the present, and already understand fundemental existence purely by existing. To strive for some abstract, higher state is to distract oneself.

 

[Frog]

I think it is possible to get too caught up in these abstract concepts. Nonetheless, the aim to exist in the present moment is meaningless. We cannot help existing in the present - if knowledge and wisdom, as you say, comes to those who live in the 'eternal now', we must already have these things.

If we have an aim of understanding, as thinking people inevitably do, the method should be to realise the fact that we already exist in the present, and already understand fundemental existence purely by existing. To strive for some abstract, higher state is to distract oneself.

I couldn't agree more. Here is the tricky paradox when it comes to humans. You can show them the truth yet the mind(personification of evil in most religions) will make up its own false reality. People begin to live inside the bounds of this reality and anything outside of it that imposes itself onto this artificial reality is seen as threatening and dangerous. Why? Because it disrupts the fabric by being self evident.
You can lead a horse to water but yet can't make it drink.
Humans wonder where their problems come from and and how to fix them while all along all they needed to do is accept what is true and live in accordance with the truth.

 

[blü 2]

What of those who do not believe in God, therefore do not believe reality exists?

¿Ché? Was? что? Eh? Reality is the sum of things with objective existence, everything that exists regardless of you, the world outside yourself, the place where you get your air, water, food, friends, internet connections and how-to-vote cards. So far it seems remarkably free of God, or even gods. Is that because God is not real, is imaginary?

They would require proof? Proof of reality by subjecting reality unto reality.

Come now, a satisfactory demonstration of the unicorn, the yeti, God, is a perfectly reasonable request to anyone who says the unicorn, the yeti, God is real (has objective existence, is not purely imaginary). Just show the unicorn, the yeti, God to us and stop all the excuses. (What exactly is a real god, by the way? If we find a suspect, what objective test will determine whether it's God or not?)

 

[Caseus]

¿Ché? Was? что? Eh? Reality is the sum of things with objective existence, everything that exists regardless of you, the world outside yourself, the place where you get your air, water, food, friends, internet connections and how-to-vote cards. So far it seems remarkably free of God, or even gods. Is that because God is not real, is imaginary?
Come now, a satisfactory demonstration of the unicorn, the yeti, God, is a perfectly reasonable request to anyone who says the unicorn, the yeti, God is real (has objective existence, is not purely imaginary). Just show God to us and stop all the excuses.
The sum of things with objective existence is called 'God'? Not where I come from. But if that's correct, why do you say God instead of making yourself clear by saying Everything?

Is there such thing as objective existence? Certainly I have never seen any.

Two people will experience the same thing differently. Which is objective truth? We experience a subjective reality. Why dwell on some imaginary objective reality which nobody has ever experienced (and is thus just as unreasonable a belief as the bearded fellow up yonder) when subjective reality is all that we experience, and thus all that affects us?

 

[Frog]

The sum of things with objective existence is called 'God'? Not where I come from. But if that's correct, why do you say God instead of making yourself clear by saying Everything?

God is everything but also nothing.

Come now, a satisfactory demonstration of the unicorn, the yeti, God, is a perfectly reasonable request to anyone who says God is real (has objective existence, is not purely imaginary). Just show God to us and stop all the excuses.

God is right in front of your nose. Can you guess in which form?

Eh? Reality is the sum of things with objective existence, everything that exists regardless of you, the world outside yourself, the place where you get your air, water, food, friends, internet connections and how-to-vote cards. So far it seems remarkably free of God, or even gods. Is that because God is not real, is imaginary?

God is reality.

 

[Frog]

Is there such thing as objective existence? Certainly I have never seen any.

Two people will experience the same thing differently. Which is objective truth? We experience a subjective reality. Why dwell on some imaginary objective reality which nobody has ever experienced (and is thus just as unreasonable a belief as the bearded fellow up yonder) when subjective reality is all that we experience, and thus all that affects us?

I believe he is supposing that if God is real then he should be able to see him. Quaintly, he observes God as a man in a beard. LOL, albeit if he was he would be.

 

[osgart]

Anyone can conceive anything they wish. What basis is there for these concepts? You got to use reality to explain reality. It is not apparent that the universe is created. Perhaps a creative force exists, i believe so. But that creative force is not master of its environment.

Whether or not there is an eternal unchanging realm outside of this one or not can not be known. The universe could be an everchanging, cyclical system that is totally unintended.

Matter exists on a fine line knife's edge. 20 precise constants keep things just right.
Just right for desparate life to exist. Life existing off of other life. Reality is utterly absurd that we exist at all.

I look at all the fruits and vegetables we have in the world and i cant help think that we are meant to farm and live off the land and its provision. The form of the human body is intelligent itself. And yet so many creatures are chaotically formed with slight intelligence to their make up.

Reality is a grande mystery. Both of signs of intelligence, and signs of brute, violent, indifferent chaos. Perhaps its both intelligent and indifferent to life.

 

[ChristineM]

If you cannot believe In creator than your very existence is null. We would not be here to have this conversation. How then could you have any knowledge of reality or perception?

Something of an insult to people who don't bow down to your delusion have null existence.

So in exchange, why is it that people who worship a bronze age myth are so intolerant of difference?

 

[Frog]

Something of an insult to people who don't bow down to your delusion have null existence.

So in exchange, why is it that people who worship a bronze age myth are so intolerant of difference?

Is the nature of the universe a myth? God is the universe and nature and those who cannot come to grip with that are the intolerant ones.

 

[ChristineM]

Is the nature of the universe a myth? God is the universe and nature and those who cannot come to grip with that are the intolerant ones.

First you need to prove gods existence before you can decree god is anything. Considering it has never happened in thousands of years of god worship i won't be holding my breath while you provide proof of your claim

As an honest person you should be aware that the most you can claim is "you believe god is..."

 

[Frog]

First you need to prove gods existence before you can decree god is anything. Considering it has never happened in thousands of years of god worship i won't be holding my breath while you provide proof of your claim

As an honest person you should be aware that the most you can claim is "you believe god is..."

Actually your existence is proof enough. Can you feel yourself living? The breathe of life is in you my brother. Remove that veil from your eyes.

 

[ChristineM]

Actually your existence is proof enough. Can you feel yourself living? The breathe of life is in you my brother. Remove that veil from your eyes.

You have a very, very low threshold of proof. I.e. i guess so it must be proof.

I am not so gullible and i am not your brother, even metaphorically.

 

[Frog]

You have a very, very low threshold of proof. I.e. i guess so it must be proof.

I am not so gullible and i am not your brother, even metaphorically.

This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

 

[ChristineM]

This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

So no evidence then, just insults against those who adhere to the true definition of reality. Fair enough