How do i know i'm ready?

[Mindmaster]

I am not sure if there are ways around such a situation but if your desire is to affiliate with the Temple then personally I would leave no stone unturned in my pursuit to do so.

O.T.O. is a Thelemic group, Thelema is NOT LHP.


A neb kekui Set, ami per et em kher
EM

I agree that you shouldn't give up, but honestly... you might not be able to do anything about it.

Yep not disagreeing with you on OTO in general... spot on.. they're totally RHP oriented, but perhaps more middle of the RHP than extremely right... but I'm just thinking initiatory schools that aren't blatantly conflicting. OTO seems to be acceptable for anyone that doesn't have a personal conflict with Thelema (it's actually pretty hard to have a conflict with it, imho). I doubt anyone who could be a Setian would have an issue since the line of spiritual succession seems evident to me. _The Book of Coming Forth by Night_ for example requires knowledge of _The Book of Law_ to make a lick of sense. Surely, I wouldn't go so far as to say that will make you Setian since I think it involves much more than accepting the basis of _The Book of the Law_ but there seems to be no other requirement in the OTO. Swap every instance of the word "Holy Guardian Angel" with the "The Black Flame" and you likely can get by. I tend to view TBF and HGA as names for the same thing but feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I'm definitely walking into the realm of armchair speculation so consider this an entertaining debate.

Of course that commentary is just on the basis that he's actually been rejected by ToS and is just not anticipating that rejection. It's always better to get the information from the source where possible and always better to go to the group that meshes with you more immediately. Just my opinions though... take it for what it's worth...

 

[Valor]

Of course that commentary is just on the basis that he's actually been rejected by ToS and is just not anticipating that rejection. .

Yes, i was rejected and by more than one members of the Priesthood. Priest Jason Longfellow (assistant to the executive director) responded, "listen, i don't usually say i'm sorry, nor do i give explaination on a regular basis, But with your case i had to ask members of the councel and i have to say i'm really sorry... I know it was 13/14 years ago, but theres nothing i can do. and i really feel bad, you seem to have what we're looking for but the rules are the rules, no felonies. But if there is anything at all i can do to help, and i don't say this to anyone, please contact me. I'm only an email away. Best of luck on your journey. There are books that i can point you to..." (not knowing i own/studied most of their reading list)

It felt like a frozen sledge hammer missed my rib cage and plunged mercilessly into my heart, stripping the wind from my lungs...physically i felt ill immediately, welling up my eyes...i mean everything i've done to that date was to ready myself for the hard work ahead behind the Temple walls...i was 32 then. Even the application was binded and proffesionally concockted, thats how tedious i am. I sat in my room with a clenched fist for days just re-reading his responce. My wife always tries to comfort me when i'm down, but those few days from the moment she saw my face when i read his email, she didn't dare say a word. I sat and said over and over "what do i do now!"

So, i said "#@*% that!" I decided to go above (or below) his head. I ended up, through some unique and cunning ways, abtaining Eric Kauschens information. I contacted him directly, actually it came about with Eric contacting me back, via phone. I then explained my situation and he told me i could mail a package to an alternate address other than the ToS's. He contacted me again and said the same thing Priest Longfellow did.

I could understand if what i did was something habitual or devious...more than a "one time incedent", but it wasn't. I was just a 20 year old goof. No "victims." I made out with a 17 year old chick (who said she was 19!) for about 2 minutes when i was 20 and thats it. It was consentual. Her dad over heard her bragging on the phone about her "making out" with her friends brother. We didn't even take one article of clothing off!..Nothing but kissing and maybe a quick feel...thats it. So her dad said "who did you kiss!!!! and she said "blabla's brother" so the father told his brother (a cop) and i got a knock on my door. She didn't press charges, the state automatically picks them up. (great thing about living in a commonwealth) and i was charged with "statutory indecent assault without force"... i was only 3 years older than her!

So even though this was 14 years ago, i can't join the Temple of Set? ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!

&(*&^*^%%!#!$^&*()%%$(*%$#%^!!!#^&^^*& !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm ready to change my name.... Fake a death...lol

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm ready to change my name.... Fake a death...lol

Yea, name change won't work those go on file. You need to squeal on mafia, gang-bangers, or drug cartels so you can get witness protection. I joke, but sorry to hear that news like I said don't give up just find another outlet. I wish you luck with that endeavor. I think it's more important to find a learning environment of some type than have nothing at all. It's the difference between being a practitioner and a dabbler.

 

[ktf]

I will say this:

Would you really want to be part of an initiatory school/religion that does not recognize that people change and evolve? Seriously, what could be more of a core principal of genuine Xeper than people learning, growing, and changing through the struggles of life?

Would you really want to be accepted by a group that claims to help direct the search for Truth, and who even claim to have access to Truth, and yet does not seem capable of understanding the truth that young people make mistakes of judgement?

Who among us has not at some point in our lives done something that, were we to be caught, would result in a felony conviction? Apparently the ToS, or at least those in the ToS who have the authority to make organizational decisions, can not or will not recognize this. Would you really want to be accepted by such people?

 

[Valor]

I will say this:

Would you really want to be part of an initiatory school/religion that does not recognize that people change and evolve? Seriously, what could be more of a core principal of genuine Xeper than people learning, growing, and changing through the struggles of life?

Would you really want to be accepted by a group that claims to help direct the search for Truth, and who even claim to have access to Truth, and yet does not seem capable of understanding the truth that young people make mistakes of judgement?

Who among us has not at some point in our lives done something that, were we to be caught, would result in a felony conviction? Apparently the ToS, or at least those in the ToS who have the authority to make organizational decisions, can not or will not recognize this. Would you really want to be accepted by such people?

This is exactly what my wife and i were in dialog about after the second time i applied.

They teach/preach refinement and becoming (change) but fail to acknowledge it when it's not thier own. If anything they could have said "Sorry, but Hey, Good Job...or a "Way to Xeper buddy"..lol. since it was the LHP that aided me in keeping my *** from a life style of crime.

I'm curious to know if they acknowledge one anothers change or do they get secretly upset when they hear of it. Like when your little brother wins a bigger trophy than you...you smile on the outside.

Apparently those affiliated just never been caught or never broke the law. If not than it HAS to be a case of "You can break any Law you want, Victimise the world if you wish...But if you do get caught we are gonna have to let you go!" Felonies vary from state to state, as i said, in 40' somethin other states it would have been a misdemeanor.

Besides, i wouldn't want to admit that a convicted fellon aced me either.

 

[EtuMalku]

. . . since it was the LHP that aided me in keeping my *** from a life style of crime.

I'm not trying to start anything here Valor, but first you mentioned your felony was from a simple kiss and grope of someone 3 years younger than you and underage (not to your knowledge) and now you mention the LHP keeping you from a lifestyle of crime?


EM

 

[Valor]

I'm not trying to start anything here Valor, but first you mentioned your felony was from a simple kiss and grope of someone 3 years younger than you and underage (not to your knowledge) and now you mention the LHP keeping you from a lifestyle of crime?
EM

Yes, i started to delve deep into LHP studies and teachings around the age of 22ish. Prior to that i just read all the books...I wasn't "practicing" on a "genuine" basis. However, if i did not begin to tread this path with cunning and efficiency, i could have become something entirely different... And very good at it.

Hence a lifestyle of crime, something i'd do more than not.

life·style [lf stl]
(plural life·styles)
n
manner of living: the way of life characteristic of a particular person, group, or culture


I could have made easy money instead of earning an honest living, i could have burnt down a business, instead of creating one, i could have started fights at random intead of being the fight stopper, i could have stolen your brothers nice car instead of purchasing my own, i could have dropped out instead i persued college, i could have used and sold drugs instead of advocating against them in public schools, i could have done a lot on the wrong end of the Law. But i chose the hard way of life, the honest and civilized way. I know this value and it's reward. And i thank LAVey, Webb and many others for it almost daily when i reflect on the results and what "actually practicing" LHP philosophy and teachings can accomplish. I am an ideal example of this. My success is a direct result of practicing LHP ethics and train of concious.I owe them greatly.

Of course, I could have "Intentionally" done the wrong thing, but i never have... instead, I've always done the "Strong" thing. Still not good enough for the Temple? Then tell me what is!?


Let me be clear, i have nothing at all against ToS members, infact it's quite the opposite, but i do have something against those within who created this "rule." There are none so blind as those who don't listen.

 

[ktf]

Regarding this question of criminal lifestyle:

If one reads the Onyx Tablet of Set one will discover that a former High Priest of the ToS was, in his youth, a methamphetamine user. Apparently he was never caught and eventually cleaned up his act. However, there are only a couple of ways to obtain illegal drugs...one can purchase them from a drug dealer (a felony), or one can manufacture them oneself (a felony). Either way one is engaged in a criminal lifestyle and regularly committing felonies. The hypocracy is obvious. It would seem that the important issue to the authorities in the ToS is whether or not one gets caught, not whether or not one was a criminal.

Again, is this a group you would want to be a part of?

 

[Valor]

Regarding this question of criminal lifestyle:

If one reads the Onyx Tablet of Set one will discover that a former High Priest of the ToS was, in his youth, a methamphetamine user. Apparently he was never caught and eventually cleaned up his act. However, there are only a couple of ways to obtain illegal drugs...one can purchase them from a drug dealer (a felony), or one can manufacture them oneself (a felony). Either way one is engaged in a criminal lifestyle and regularly committing felonies. The hypocracy is obvious. It would seem that the important issue to the authorities in the ToS is whether or not one gets caught, not whether or not one was a criminal.

Again, is this a group you would want to be a part of?

(Yes, i have all the tablets on my shelf (revised additions as well)... proffesionally bindered them a few years ago)

Sinicerely? Not anymore... there was a time when i would have given everything and anything... traveling the world attending every conclave. Now i'm literally just in the greatest of awe of thier neglect.

Actually, to be honest, i'm rather embarrest to have even tried but more so angry with myself for not noticing this prior to applying. How did i miss it, but also how could i have known unless i tried? Again, it's all just sad.

 

[Adramelek]

Ave Valor,

Look, one doesn't need to be a member of an organization to be what they Truly Are. One doesn't need to be a member of the ToS to Be a Setian, just as one need not be a member of the CoS to be a Satanist. That's how I see it. Even though I do aspire to re-enter the ToS, for me personally, it isn't mandatory. My eternal allegiance is to the Prince of Darkness of which the Egyptian god Set is only one of His/Its many reflections and semblances.

/Adramelek\

 

[Valor]

Ave Valor,

Look, one doesn't need to be a member of an organization to be what they Truly Are. One doesn't need to be a member of the ToS to Be a Setian, just as one need not be a member of the CoS to be a Satanist. That's how I see it. Even though I do aspire to re-enter the ToS, for me personally, it isn't mandatory. My eternal allegiance is to the Prince of Darkness of which the Egyptian god Set is only one of His/Its many reflections and simblances.
/Adramelek\

"Ave" my dearest Adramelek. Precisely! I don't need to be a Member, no...very true. However i thought that it had the potential to aid and inspire me in my travels. To assist me, to fortify. A second support system. Hence anchoring my already strict set of ethics which are my lifes foundational stones.

"I Worship my Potential". I wasn't looking for a religion or to "Belong". I work more effectively solo. I guess i was seeking a map toward refinement, ya know?

However, I was looking for an effective Initiatory school, i figured it had applications that harbor Self Refinement and i was seeking just that. Not as a fraturnal brother hood or to congregate, but rather a "Tool."

P.S. have you read the past 7/8 posts? It rather explains my unique situation..lol.

(Good to hear from you and thank you for the advice. )

 

[ktf]

Ave Valor,

Look, one doesn't need to be a member of an organization to be what they Truly Are. One doesn't need to be a member of the ToS to Be a Setian, just as one need not be a member of the CoS to be a Satanist. That's how I see it. Even though I do aspire to re-enter the ToS, for me personally, it isn't mandatory. My eternal allegiance is to the Prince of Darkness of which the Egyptian god Set is only one of His/Its many reflections and semblances.

/Adramelek\

I love this reply Adramelek. I think it is a wonderful expression of LHP development and philosophy.

I think many of us here recognize the importance of a School on the Path of Initiation. However, the right School might not exist at this point for certain Initiates. I look forward to the day when the LHP in the West has many thriving School of Initiation that pursue the LHP from many different angles. All Hail the Emerging Gods/Goddesses within Us!

 

[EtuMalku]

I admire those of you that seek Setamorphosis using a solitary path.
I can understand a bitterness from not getting what one desires (afterall, this is a LHP trait).
But I would like to add;
If you commit a felony while in the Temple, you will be removed from the Temple
If you committed a felony before being in the Temple, you will not get in to the Temple
If you cannot Become Recognized to Adept within a two year period, you will be removed from the Temple
If you become detrimental to the Temple in any capacity, you will be removed from the Temple

My personal experience is that being part of the TOS is most beneficial towards Setamorphosis.


EM

 

[ktf]

There is one necessary correction to the above.

If you commit a felony and get caught you will not be admited into the Temple. As I pointed out in a post above there are people in all levels of the ToS, even a former High Priest, who have committed felonies. The key words are "get caught".

 

[Daelach]

And by the way - am I the only one seeing a contradiction between being a kind of elite on the one side, and yet to cling to the laws the stupid masses want to see in place on the other side? Of course, in practice, this is the easiest way to get along. Trust in the government that it will make good laws. Yeah, trust the government, they know what is good for you. Wouldn't a Setian rather trust HIMSELF instead of governments known to lie to the people?! And if they expect strict obedience to such a government, isn't it more than probable that such a stance will result in expecting a likewise strict obedience to the priesthood?

And "rules are rules" is ridiculous because they themselves have given them those rules, and if they had the power to do so, they have also the power to make exceptions. Clinging to rules just because they are there is not the way intelligent beings would act - however, it is the way to mediocrity and bureaucracy.

By the way - isn't MISTRUSTING the government actually typically American? That is the very reason why the US fought for independence instead of being good children obeying to the English king.

 

[Valor]

There is one necessary correction to the above.

If you commit a felony and get caught you will not be admited into the Temple. As I pointed out in a post above there are people in all levels of the ToS, even a former High Priest, who have committed felonies. The key words are "get caught".

I lost total respect. Period. I'm thinking of going back to the CoS as an "active member" this time.

 

[Adramelek]

As I see it, I am within my Self a Temple of the Black Flame. Sure my time in the ToS deeply enhanced my Xeper and aided me in my quest for the knowledge, Truth, and Undefiled Wisdom of the Prince of Darkness. Plus, there was the fellowship of like minded individuals, safety in numbers, recognition of my Magical peirs, etc. Then again, my time of greatest Xeper in my life occured in my twenties when I was not a member of any organization. It was during that time in which I began to master my life and fulfilled my goal of becoming a virtuoso pianist and composer through shear dedication and iron willed determination combined with a natural talent. Of course, during that time I also remained true to my core Setianism and to the practice of Black Magic and Xeper which energized that Dark Fire within me.

Is the Temple of Set perfect? No. However, for me anyway, it remains one of the most dedicated and promanent Schools of the Black Arts in the world today. And it is one of the very few true Temples of the Dark Lord on Earth. I proclaimed my eternal allegience to Set as my chosen Form of the Dark Entity over 20 years ago because it was something that I personally wanted to do. And I am for ever, happily bound to my sacred oath and I never have, nor shall I ever forsake it. But, again, this is just me. I have to be true to my Self.:bat:

Xeper em Ma'at.
/Adramelek\

 

[Valor]

As I see it, I am within my Self a Temple of the Black Flame. /Adramelek\

Any Organization which furthers the development of the Black Flame is on my radar, unfortunately there aren't many. I left the CoS because i felt that i was becoming ilde and not progressing. But i'm sure that had a lot to do with me. Maybe i wasn't testing my own fences enough. I'm going back with a mission this time.

 

[Adramelek]

I once considered joining the CoS, but they just don't do it for me... especially after Blanche Barton came into the picture. Diane LaVey was a truly wonderful High Priestess when she and Anton were together. And, no offence to any members of the CoS here but I simply don't care that much for Peter H. Gilmore's brand of "athiestic Satanism". After reading his "Satanic Scriptures" there are certain aspects of his philosophy that I agree with, but for the most part it's just too dry and lacking in substance for me.

/Adramelek\

 

[Valor]

I once considered joining the CoS, but they just don't do it for me... especially after Blanche Barton came into the picture. Diane LaVey was a truly wonderful High Priestess when she and Anton were together. And, no offence to any members of the CoS here but I simply don't care that much for Peter H. Gilmore's brand of "anthiestic Satanism". After reading his "Satanic Scriptures" there are certain aspects of his philosophy that I agree with, but for the most part it's just too dry and lacking in substance for me.

/Adramelek\

I wasn't a big Gilmore fan either, one of the reasons i left.