How Could You Know What Happens After Death?

[Buttercup]

Absolutely! I think that the failure of faith is the heart and soul human delusion, which in my mind is the essence of all our illness and unhappiness, and "evil".

Could you explain further what you mean by this?

 

[PureX]

I should have explained myself further....I mean TRUTH/VALUE to me. And only me. Everyone else has to find their own truth. I can help you look at mine and what it does for me...but the journey to truth (your subjective truth) is a solitary walk.

Of course. I guess I was just sharing the "truth" that I've found regarding the "search for truth", or for "proof" of God, etc. And that is that it can't be had in the rational, physical forms that I once sought it. It can only be found through personal experience, and personal choice. I have to find "God" in a baby's smile, in a friend's joy, in my own peace and appreciation of the world around me. These are my "proofs", and I think they are what other folks ultimately find to be the "proofs" of faith, as well.

 

[Sunstone]

This thread has made me fall in love with RF all over again. Thanks, Rhonda, Rob, and Dave for your participation in it.

 

[Buttercup]

This thread has made me fall in love with RF all over again. Thanks, Rhonda, Rob, and Dave for your participation in it.

Yeah, me too. Wouldn't it be great to be having this talk drinking beer and shooting hoops as well? We'd be the most intellectual drunks on the basketball court.

I need to get offline for a bit and get some things done.....hopefully we'll meet up again. Thanks guys! :hug:

 

[PureX]

This thread has made me fall in love with RF all over again. Thanks, Rhonda, Rob, and Dave for your participation in it.

Hey, Professor! Don't leave yourself out of this group! *smile*

 

[Sunstone]

Of course. I guess I was just sharing the "truth" that I've found regarding the "search for truth", or for "proof" of God, etc. And that is that it can't be had in the rational, physical forms that I once sought it. It can only be found through personal experience, and personal choice. I have to find "God" in a baby's smile, in a friend's joy, in my own peace and appreciation of the world around me. These are my "proofs", and I think they are what other folks ultimately find to be the "proofs" of faith, as well.

That very well hintss to me what faith is all about. Furthermore, it seems to me that some folks, such as Biblical literalists, miss the point and nature of faith entirely. They treat it as mere belief system a set of beliefs in something, and not as a vehicle or path to something greater than our mediocre consciousness of the world. I'm not sure whether that literalist view has any genuine spiritual value at all.

 

[PureX]

Could you explain further what you mean by this?

Sure.

I think we delude ourselves when we seek "truth", because we can't ever really know what the truth is. Instead, what we can know are various relative facts. And what we can do with these facts is be honest about what they can tell us and what they can't. They can tell us a lot about how the world works around us, but they can't tell us why we exist, or if God exists, or if there is an afterlife, etc. And when we fail to understand and accept the limitations of what we can and can't know, we become delusional. And we become dishonest. We become inauthentic (by pretending that as human beings we are capable of knowing things that we are not capable of knowing). And then when we act out based on these delusions we begin to do harm to ourselves and others. And if we still refuse to recognize that this is what we're doing, we do even MORE harm by trying to force our delusions onto ourselves and the world around us. A destructive (dishonest) downward spiral begins, that can only end in suffering. And does.

The ideal goal for we humans is not "truth" (we can't know that, anyway), the ideal goal for we humans is honesty, authenticity, humility, and from these spring all the great gifts: peace, joy, love, happiness, kindness, .... spiritual, intellectual, and physical health.

 

[Sunstone]

Hey, Professor! Don't leave yourself out of this group! *smile*

Thanks, Dave!

 

[Sunstone]

Sure.

I think we delude ourselves when we seek "truth", because we can't ever really know what the truth is. Instead, what we can know are various relative facts. And what we can do with these facts is be honest about what they can tell us and what they can't. They can tell us a lot about how the world works around us, but they can't tell us why we exist, or if God exists, or if there is an afterlife, etc. And when we fail to understand and accept the limitations of what we can and can't know, we become delusional. And we become dishonest. We become inauthentic (by pretending that as human beings we are capable of knowing things that we are not capable of knowing). And then when we act out based on these delusions we begin to do harm to ourselves and others. And if we still refuse to recognize that this is what we're doing, we do even MORE harm by trying to force our delusions onto ourselves and the world around us. A destructive (dishonest) downward spiral begins, that can only end in suffering. And does.

To give a mediocre example of delusion: Consider Bush's division of the world into the Good versus the "evildoers" and his fantasy that his actions are justified, no matter how immoral they are, by the fact he is on the side of the Good.

The ideal goal for we humans is not "truth" (we can't know that, anyway), the ideal goal for we humans is honesty, authenticity, humility, and from these spring all the great gifts: peace, joy, love, happiness, kindness, .... spiritual, intellectual, and physical health.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[PureX]

I couldn't agree more.

We should start a religion! *hahaha*

 

[Katzpur]

How do you know what happens after death? Isn't it speculation?

You can't possibly know. Is it speculation? Perhaps. I'd call it faith.

 

[Bishka]

Then why don't we "just know", now?

I do -- I think you should ask the question

"Why don't I?"

 

[BFD_Zayl]

even i do not know. but if i was to guess its what you percieve it to be when you die. and as i have said before there might be good places, bad places, and self induced torture. i do not know, and no one ever will untill they die

 

[Buttercup]

I think we delude ourselves when we seek "truth", because we can't ever really know what the truth is. Instead, what we can know are various relative facts. And what we can do with these facts is be honest about what they can tell us and what they can't. They can tell us a lot about how the world works around us, but they can't tell us why we exist, or if God exists, or if there is an afterlife, etc.

I'm with you here, Dave. And it's funny....I was a Christian for years and didn't wonder about any of this because I thought I had the answers. I simply believed other men's accounts of who God was. I took it all in on faith. I had my "truth". Now I have to say that my old faith regarding who God is isn't enough....not when you throw the fear of hell in. The myth of hell ruins much of religious teachings for me. I need to find a new path of faith regarding God.

And when we fail to understand and accept the limitations of what we can and can't know, we become delusional. And we become dishonest. We become inauthentic (by pretending that as human beings we are capable of knowing things that we are not capable of knowing). And then when we act out based on these delusions we begin to do harm to ourselves and others. And if we still refuse to recognize that this is what we're doing, we do even MORE harm by trying to force our delusions onto ourselves and the world around us. A destructive (dishonest) downward spiral begins, that can only end in suffering. And does.

Hmm. Sounds amazingly like fundamental religion.

The ideal goal for we humans is not "truth" (we can't know that, anyway), the ideal goal for we humans is honesty, authenticity, humility, and from these spring all the great gifts: peace, joy, love, happiness, kindness, .... spiritual, intellectual, and physical health.

Very true...and much of this is taught through Christianity....which is a great thing. Too bad Hell is thrown in to mess it all up.

 

[PureX]

love is a subjective emotion and isnt' the same for everyone. the fact that love is not determinal as an absolute but is open to intepretation and speculation as to what it is suggest there is no guiding and divine force that coordinates aboslutes in the universe.

Why wouldn't it suggest just the opposite?

 

[PureX]

I'm with you here, Dave. And it's funny....I was a Christian for years and didn't wonder about any of this because I thought I had the answers. I simply believed other men's accounts of who God was. I took it all in on faith. I had my "truth". Now I have to say that my old faith regarding who God is isn't enough....not when you throw the fear of hell in. The myth of hell ruins much of religious teachings for me. I need to find a new path of faith regarding God.

I agree. The whole "hell" thing is a religious invention used to threaten anyone who dares to question or contradict the power of the religious elite. It was exactly this religious self-enforcement/protection that Jesus himself came up against, and was murdered for. Yet Jesus understood that these were the acts of weak and frightened men. He also understood that it's in the face of exactly this sort of faithless (fear-driven) sickness that we most need to express God's love and forgiveness to each other, so Jesus forgave even those who were responsible for his torture and murder. And I think he means that we should try to do the same (even when we discover that the murderous religious elites are within our own selves).

Hmm. Sounds amazingly like fundamental religion.

Yes it does. And this delusion of man's ability to know what we can't really know doesn't only infect religious ideologies, it can infect anyone with any ideology. Nazism and fascism are expressions of this same power-hungry delusion, just as are the ideas and actions of George Bush and the neo-cons in the U.S. republican party (as Sunstone has pointed out). And this same delusion motivates many oppressive and abusive governments all over the world. Ultimately, they all think they know what the "truth" is regarding questions of value and existence that they don't really know. And they are all acting accordingly ... and they are all toxic as a result.

Whenever you meet men and women who claim to know the "truth", run for your life, because they're already lying to you and to themselves and they may soon endeavor to destroy anything that dares to contradict or expose them.

Very true...and much of this is taught through Christianity....which is a great thing. Too bad Hell is thrown in to mess it all up.

Jesus said that if we would give up our lives for his sake, he'd give us back our lives in him. I think he should have replaced the word "lives" with the word religion. Because it's only when we are willing to let go of our ideas of God and righteousness and truth and all that, that we are finally able to embody it.

This is why I am a taoist. Taoism is the only philosophy that I know of that addresses this aspect of reality, directly (or as directly as is possible).

The Master keeps her mind
always at one with the Tao;
that is what gives her her radiance.

The Tao is ungraspable.
How can her mind be at one with it?
Because she doesn't cling to ideas.

The Tao is dark and unfathomable.
How can it make her radiant?
Because she lets it.

Since before time and space were,
the Tao is.
It is beyond is and is not.
How do I know this is true?
I look inside myself and see​

 

[d.]

This is why I am a taoist. Taoism is the only philosophy that I know of that addresses this aspect of reality, directly (or as directly as is possible).

my view exactly. :clap

 

[divinemission]

Here's a little something

hat is it, then, that qualifies a man to be a prophet? Foremost, God must choose him as his prophet! This is entirely different than for man to choose God. The Savior, speaking to his apostles, said, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit. …” (John 15:16.)



“We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands, by those who are in authority to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.” (A of F 1:5.)



A prophet, then, is the authorized representative of the Lord. While the world may not recognize him, the important requirement is that God speaks through him. A prophet is a teacher. He receives revelations from the Lord. These may be new truths or explanations of truths already received.

What will happen to your soul after your natural body died is depending of your life during the time you were on earth, and your inheritance as well!