How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

Reading this I think we've been through a similar journey in life, except I became a Baha'i in my mid 20s. I loved rock'n'roll and music generally. I looked East and like you learned to breathe. My posture was never so good to begin with, I wasn't too supple so the lotus position was impossible, and the vegetarian diet only lasted for a couple of years.

The Christian Faith that I grew up with and explored as I was searching certainly has profoundly influenced my soul. Perhaps the most important experience was meeting so many beautiful people from different cultures and backgrounds. It just never made sense that Christianity could be the only way.

For several years I searched for 'the truth', not really understanding what was looking for and where to turn to. Then in my darkest times I prayed and felt my spirits lifted. When I prayed for guidance to as to my spiritual home, an invitation to a Baha'is meeting followed soon after. After investigating for 8 months I decided I may as well join up. 25+ years later I'm still investigating.



So like you I'm here to learn, not so much to teach. Christianity, the Baha'i faith, science, and a little history....all familiar territory. Buddhism is a work in progress and that's why I asked Carlita for her thoughts. To understand Christianity involves good knowledge of scripture, history, and most importantly putting it into practice.

It's true that to understand Buddhism we must consider all the scriptures. The verses you ask about appear to be about the life of the spirit of man, rather than his physical body. The idea of reincarnation seems very like the Christian idea of rebirth or being born again. These are my preliminary thoughts but until I have the kind of familiarity with Buddhist scripture that I do with the Bible, I can not say anything with certainty.



The prophecies whether from the OT referring to Jesus, or from the bible in its entirety referring to Baha'u'llah, are circumstantial in nature, and I believe that is because God tests each one of us. Recall the reason why Jesus spoke in parables. Matthew 13:10-11

The virgin birth a proof? How can we possibly prove that Mary was a virgin?

The most important proofs are the Life and Teachings of the Manifestations themselves and the power they have to transform our lives and those around us. Prophecies have their place.



Most of them, yes. Some will be fulfilled once Baha'u'llah's world order is better established. Were there any you had in mind?



I love you're humour.

Wanted correct you. Reincarnation is a hindu teaching. Christians believe they have one life here and then most believe they will go to heaven and be with god forever. Others believe that god will make a new earth and everything starts anew with gods forever presence.

Buddhism believes each person is trapped in the realm of life and death (suffering). We dont go through lifetimes as a means to enlightenment. Its not a journey to moska as in hindu but a full Understanding and Wisdom of the nature of suffering, cause, and end. Buddhas stay on earth to help others (Bodhisattvas to be buddhas) others are enlightened themselves and no longer in the cycle.

They actually die just as The Buddha died. There is no eternal spirit and eternal life. Its understanding and practice not belief. Totally different worldview than christianity, bahai, and hinduism who believe in god(s).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Ever heard of Brahmo Samaj?

see:

Brahmo Samaj - Wikipedia

Do you believe this movement represents the teachings of Hinduism as a whole? and what Hinduis actually believe as one, a collective unit and two, as individual sects and their different beliefs?

 

[RESOLUTION]

Sounds much better. Its a journey of learning for us both that never ends. We all have our reasons for believing what we do. I see discussions such as these an opportunity to learn about the faiths of others.

I believe God to be the one person who knows everything. I believe even Christ did not know everything.
KJV Matthew.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

As God knows all things and cannot unknow them then being Omniscient meant I knew who Christ was in the
Father. Why the Holy thing is called the Son of God ad did not know everything. He cannot lie for he was
like God and Adam when originally created both born without sin.
So when I learn about other faiths it helps me understand how they came into being.

Talk to the Baha'is here for long enough and that will become clear.

Is that how you became Baha'i follower? Was it just talking about their beliefs?

That's our difference. Baha'u'llah is to me, what Christ is to you.

Christ is the Son of God to me the Messiah who brought the truth. How do you feel they differ?

My weariness has nothing to do with being uncertain about my faith.

I thought you were just weary of the conversation having no direct thoughts about what it was I
wanted to know. I think it would be good to know how you left one way and went to another
when warned about doing that. How do you relate one to the other? I personally find me faith is
built upon God. I find no way to build what you have become with who Christ is or the God he served.

Do you believe it will be the same Jesus that returns, like the same body?

Christ changed from the moment of his resurrection. What was mortal (that which could die human flesh) became immortal
(that which could not die a resurrected flesh) so Christ will return in the same resurrected body as he ascended into heaven
with. All flesh will be changed to that which cannot die. The Soul of man his living soul came directly from the breath
of the eternal living God.
7.And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Only man received his life from the breath of God. So Christ was raised in a new body which could not die.

Of course the gospels were written many years after Christ's crucifixion. Then only two of the gospel writers, John and Matthew could be considered eye witnesses. Some scholars will argue that none of them were. I believe the apostles I believe were inspired by God's unerring spirit.

Do you identify with a denomination of Christianity or just consider yourself Christian?

Gods unerring Spirit. Do I identify with a denomination of Christianity?
I believe true Christianity is really Judaism. So that all who believe Christ is the Son of God the Messiah
are really Jews the New Covenant which allows the Gentiles to come to God. I do not believe all Christian
faiths uphold the central truth of One God as in loving God with all your heart not Jesus Christ.
So it is difficult for myself to acknowledge any one Christian denomination because Faith is about a personal
relationship with God. Since I was a small child the LORDS presence has always been with me. Whist I believe
in Christ it has always brought the presence of the true God. I did ask God once why my family and I, all
believed in God and why I felt his presence.

King James Bible
And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; and the LORD shall
cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.

Every day and every hour I am with the LORD and I speak with him all the time.
My very first teachings were those of Moses and the LORD saving his people. As I grew older the LORD
reminded me of all those teachings he opened my heart and my mind to those scriptures. This helped me
to know that no matter how wise a person may thing he is, we are never wiser than God and all things
we see and do rely solely on God. When I look up a scripture it comes from within me and I then search
that scripture by book and chapter to share. I don't question Gods truth, I question and examine myself.
So people like yourself who go to other gods/beliefs I want to learn why. When writing this, these words
came to mind. King James Bible
Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god:
their drink offerings of blood will I not offer,
nor take up their names into my lips.

I believe one true God and I believe in the power and presence of Gods Holy Spirit something we see
from beginning to the end in the OT and the NT. I also believe Jesus said "Do as I do".
So I would never attend a Roman Catholic Church, I would attend a methodist or even a Church of England and
evangelical.

I believe if someone believes something to be a sin and his conscience won't allow him to do it, he has
to examine his beliefs for himself. I do not believe in withholding life giving treatment like a blood
transfusion. Eating animal blood is not the same as human blood being fed into a vein.
So I can reason that the beliefs can be unhealthy in that a person with-holding a transfusion is actually
murdering someone in doing so. I believe God judges our motives and our hearts.

Abraham,had no rules. He simply believed what God said and this was accounted as righteousness to him.

I have shared some of my beliefs now what are yours?

 

[Vinayaka]

As I'm sure you are aware most new revelations in their early history of their development went through stages of conflicts and tensions...

Not aware at all.

 

[Vinayaka]

This is a publication known as the New Garden in PDF form and in it you can find basic information about all the Manifestations including Krishna. Krishna taught that we must turn away from ourselves and our thought s and that we are not our bodies but higher beings and we do not die as we are not our bodies. The Battle in the Bhagavad-Gita we believe us the inner battle against the self. It is like a war where we must kill bad qualities.

Krishna said in the Bhagavad-Gita that whenever civilisation declines and wickedness abounds He returns.

Whenever there is a decline in righteousness, O Bharat, and the rise of irreligion, it is then that I send forth My spiritFor the salvation of the good, the destruction of the wicked, and for firmly establishing true religion (Dharma), I manifest myself from age to age. (18)

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/f/fatheazam_new_garden.pdf

This is a very interesting article about the Vedic perspective of creation from the Aitareya- Upanishad.

http://esamskriti.com/essays/Aitareya-Upanishad.pdf

Again, Hindus don't believe Krishna is a mere manifestation, as Bahais do. Just because he said he'd return doesn't in any way imply Bahallulah. That's no different than people claiming who they were in past lives. Apparently some famous people have been reborn into 1000 plus bodies, given all the people who claim it is so. It boils down to nothing more than wishful dreaming.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's our difference. Baha'u'llah is to me, what Christ is to you.

I wanna challenge your belief.

If Bahaullah is to you is what Christ means to others, and you say you are Christian, wouldn't be against Christian belief to replace christ when christ said he is the last prophet (or god, whichever) to be sent to bring the gentiles and jews together to his father?

If Bahaullah and Christ are side by side, then regardless the denomination, that doesn't mirror Christian belief and christ being the only way to god and no other prophet after him.

Oh, also no other prophet not even Muhammad have the same connection as Christians claim christ has with his father. So, if Moses didn't have the same connection as christ to god, why would Bahaullah?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is a publication known as the New Garden in PDF form and in it you can find basic information about all the Manifestations including Krishna. Krishna taught that we must turn away from ourselves and our thought s and that we are not our bodies but higher beings and we do not die as we are not our bodies. The Battle in the Bhagavad-Gita we believe us the inner battle against the self. It is like a war where we must kill bad qualities.

Krishna said in the Bhagavad-Gita that whenever civilisation declines and wickedness abounds He returns.

Whenever there is a decline in righteousness, O Bharat, and the rise of irreligion, it is then that I send forth My spiritFor the salvation of the good, the destruction of the wicked, and for firmly establishing true religion (Dharma), I manifest myself from age to age. (18)

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/f/fatheazam_new_garden.pdf

This is a very interesting article about the Vedic perspective of creation from the Aitareya- Upanishad.

http://esamskriti.com/essays/Aitareya-Upanishad.pdf

Why do you take your interpretation of Hindu scripture when Hinduism isn't people-of-the-book and, instead, ask a Hindu whether what you believe is actually Hinduism?

If it isn't, that is okay, as long as you admit that what you believe is not the beliefs of Hinduism. Although wrong and inappropriate, it's better say "I don't know Hinduism yet I believe in X" than "Hinduism believes in X (cause I'm quoting from their "scripture" therefore it proves my belief is Y) regardless the time period, ara, and nature of the two religions involved)

 

[Vinayaka]

I wanna challenge your belief.

If Bahaullah is to you is what Christ means to others, and you say you are Christian, wouldn't be against Christian belief to replace christ when christ said he is the last prophet (or god, whichever) to be sent to bring the gentiles and jews together to his father?

If Bahaullah and Christ are side by side, then regardless the denomination, that doesn't mirror Christian belief and christ being the only way to god and no other prophet after him.

One person's apostasy is another person's free will.
Just as one government's terrorist is another group's freedom fighter.

 

[Vinayaka]

Why do you take your interpretation of Hindu scripture when Hinduism isn't people-of-the-book and, instead, ask a Hindu whether what you believe is actually Hinduism?

If it isn't, that is okay, as long as you admit that what you believe is not the beliefs of Hinduism. Although wrong and inappropriate, it's better say "I don't know Hinduism yet I believe in X" than "Hinduism believes in X (cause I'm quoting from their "scripture" therefore it proves my belief is Y) regardless the time period, ara, and nature of the two religions involved)

Seems quite contradictory to me too. In one sentence we have someone admitting they know nothing, and then in the next sentence talking like they are the world's best expert. No Bahai here has demonstrated to me, a practising Hindu, much knowledge at all. Still, one has admitted it (his lack of knowledge) repeatedly. I think they should stick to the Abrahamic paradigm, although admittedly that's pointing them over to you.

It boils down to the contradiction between what one says, and then whether or not it gets applied.

 

[Vinayaka]

The members of the House are elected internationally every five years.. this is not an "old boys club" and I challenge anyone to explore the many mandates and statements made by the House since it's inception.. you won't find any that are sexist or spout the superiority of the male sex.

Sure, still doesn't alleviate the fact they're all men. Is there any hint as to when the reason for it will be known to everyone, as was foreshadowed?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Seems quite contradictory to me too. In one sentence we have someone admitting they know nothing, and then in the next sentence talking like they are the world's best expert. No Bahai here has demonstrated to me, a practising Hindu, much knowledge at all. Still, one has admitted it (his lack of knowledge) repeatedly. I think they should stick to the Abrahamic paradigm, although admittedly that's pointing them over to you.

It boils down to the contradiction between what one says, and then whether or not it gets applied.

True.

No one has given me evidence that scripture predicts someone from Iran is predicted in line with prophets in Jerusalem, Nepal, and Saudi Arabia. That, even though jesus said the only way to the father is himself and no other prophet in the OT made that claim, there is a message that Bahaullah is involved in this message.

Even the apostles didn't mention anyone else other than christ and the prophets before him. Bahaullah, from what I gather, was never christian (and how would he be). Also, Bahaullah's writings, as told, doesn't have much about the religions they talk about just Bahai goal of union between multiple religions.

I mean, Catholics would never see Bahaullah in the Eucharist as they see Christ. Southern Baptist would knock people aside the head with a dirty look (true, believe it or not), if you suggested any other book and person is inline with Christian teachings. Christianity isn't a universal religion.

I don't know.

 

[Vinayaka]

Ever heard of Brahmo Samaj?

see:

Brahmo Samaj - Wikipedia

And herein lies a huge problem. Hinduism is incredibly vast, with hundreds of schools. Whenever Bahai wants to find some idea or group that supports their peculiar POV, all they have to do is dig deep enough. It's no different than selecting particular verses to suit your agenda.

In the grand scheme of things, Brahmo Samaj is a small and largely irrelevant movement.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Couldn't find them all. Like finding Waldo.

The Bahá'í administration is essentially spiritual in nature, although practical in application. Bahá'ís believe in the idea of progressive revelation - that is, that each religion is from God, and that each builds on the one before it.

I'm kinda tearing this a part. Each religion is from god? All religions or just a few?

Social laws differ from one religion to the next because they were revealed at different times and at different stages in the development of humankind. The Bahá'í administration is, in this way, ideally suited to the present stage of civilisation.

As a result of "Social laws differ from one religion to the next because they were revealed at different times and at different stages in the development of humankind." each religion is completely different than another. They cannot all be from god because that is depreciating religions who define god totally different than Bahai and in other religions there is no such thing as god/creator/supreme being whatsoever. This is a Bahai claim or belief but in order to be correct it needs to be correct to the religions Bahai talks about.

Although the Bahá'í administration is not rigid in its form, there are certain fundamental principles involved. There are local and national institutions, and there is a world body, known as the Universal House of Justice. A brief look at some aspects of these bodies will give us some understanding of the nature and purpose of Bahá'í administration.

In each area where there are sufficient Bahá'ís, a Local Spiritual Assembly is formed. An annual election takes place for the nine members of the Assembly. Bahá'u'lláh, the Founder of the Bahá'í Faith, announced: "The Lord hath ordained that in every city a House of Justice be established wherein shall gather counsellors to the number of Bahá(9)..."

The functions of the Local Spiritual Assembly are many, and a feature of Bahá'í administration is the freedom of initiative accorded to these local Assemblies. They are essentially responsible for the well-being of all: "They must endeavour to promote amity and concord... They must do their utmost to extend at all times the helping hand to the poor, the sick, the disabled, the orphan, the widow, irrespective of colour, caste and creed...

Being part of a spiritual process, all Bahá'í elections take place without any form of electioneering. Each believer is simply called upon to cast a vote by secret ballot for any nine people from the local Bahá'í community, according to his or her conscience, aided by prayer and meditation. The nine people who receive the most votes become the members of the Local Spiritual Assembly.

[/QUOTE]

While many may not call this traditions, history, and culture. It is in part because it tells what your beliefs are, how you practice it, how your religion and organizations are conducted, what is said and not said, history of the founders, statement of faith, and so forth.

"Religion should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to vanish from the face of the earth, give birth to spirituality, and bring life and light to each heart. If religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred and division, it were better to be without it, and to withdraw from such a religion would be a truly religious act.

Religions don't make people do these things. People do these things in the name of religion. Don't cure the religion. If you want to help people, help the people understand love and unity. If they find these things in their respective faiths, who gives you and any else the right to tell them otherwise?

If anything, trying to do so is contradicting the purpose of your religion.

[/quote]For it is clear that the purpose of a remedy is to cure; but if the remedy should only aggravate the complaint it had better be left alone. Any religion which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion. All the holy prophets were as doctors to the soul; they gave prescriptions for the healing of mankind; thus any remedy that causes disease does not come from the great and supreme Physician." Baha'i writings[/QUOTE]

Not all religions, say Pagan religions, are based on unity and love. That does not mean they cannot be in accord with other faiths. It means to respect how they view the world and how their foundations for what you call unity is different (not by the same name, but completely different in meaning, language, and culture). Not wrong. Not bad. It doesn't bring people a part unless religions like Bahai, Christianity, and so forth want to make others be like them. Christians believe in love and unity and want to bring everyone to christ to do so. Bahai has their views of bringing people into love and unity.

Does any religious (not just you two) ask what makes the other person happy and not yourselves?

Even more so, strive, like bodhisattvas, help others by their own methods not by their own?

"Few today among those who have some degree of objective familiarity with the subject are likely, therefore, to entertain an illusion that any one of the established religious systems of the past can assume the role of ultimate guide for humankind in the issues of contemporary life, even in the improbable event that its disparate sects should come together for that purpose. Each one of what the world regards as independent religions is set in the mould created by its authoritative scripture and its history. As it cannot refashion its system of belief in a manner to derive legitimacy from the authoritative words of its Founder, it likewise cannot adequately answer the multitude of questions posed by social and intellectual evolution. Distressing as this may appear to many, it is no more than an inherent feature of the evolutionary process. Attempts to force a reversal of some kind can lead only to still greater disenchantment with religion itself and exacerbate sectarian conflict."

Step back a minute.

Isn't this the exact thing you are doing as other religions do? Your goal for unity and peace doesn't exclude that you want your way and others want it theirs. If there is unity, there should be respect for the differences that are not under the same names. If you don't take the other party's claim into consideration as truth just as you understand it, that is not unity and that is not peace. That is going against what you want and it creates discord which is opposite of what your motto promotes.

You don't have to kill, steal, and be violent to keep the world from unity and peace.

"Religion should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to vanish from the face of the earth, give birth to spirituality, and bring life and light to each heart. If religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred and division, it were better to be without it, and to withdraw from such a religion would be a truly religious act. For it is clear that the purpose of a remedy is to cure; but if the remedy should only aggravate the complaint it had better be left alone. Any religion which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion. "

Any religion that doesn't respect other people's definition of love and unity and respect that many religions don't have that goal would help achieve that goal. Any religion, violent or not, that oversteps other people's views one by redefining their religion, saying that their religion is a part of another person's religion, or adding subtracting things from those said religions is not creating peace. It doesn't have to be violent to create discord among religions you want to gather in one name.

"Every single letter proceeding from Our mouth is endowed with such regenerative power as to enable it to bring into existence a new creation—a creation the magnitude of which is inscrutable to all save God. He verily hath knowledge of all things.”

I had to cut it short. Not all religions have god. So you want to bring all religions into one religion thereby putting god into godless religions, redefining god from other religions, and subtracting many gods on X religion so that it only believes in one god or creator (rather than three) in another?

You kinda get the pattern.

1. You want unity and love under one religion because you feel many religions are conflicting causing violence, murder, and so forth

In reality, if you know each religious rather than going by collective religions, and not just learn their differences but realize their differences conflict with your own (as you see other religions conflict as well-so you're not excluded), then you'd get a sense that you can still find love and unity but unity involves agreement with more than one person. Love is defined many ways and it is not under one name.

You are in conflict with other religions as they are in conflict with themselves. If you guys don't see that, none of yall will achieve your goals.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's not getting so bad that I have to reply to my self... I just thought of something that ties in with this. Actually, you guys are awesome. Who else but a Baha'i could put up with all this? On threads questioning a Christian belief they can always use the cop out, "The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it." That, of course, settles nothing. Which Bible "believing" religious group do we believe? The JW's? The Catholics? The Jews? One of Protestant groups? But you poor guys have to tell us we wrong... but in a nice way. You have to tell us "Baha'u'llah" is the only way... but also allow for all of us to be right and have a true religion and prophet or manifestation, or an incarnation of God too. Just that yours is the latest one and ours are passe'

Anyway, all religions are one and from the same source.... each manifestation brings us new teachings to get us to the next level. So...
"Ok, class I'm Moses. I'll be your 3rd grade teacher. I'm so glad you learned to do yoga and meditate from your Ist and 2nd grade teachers, Krishna and Buddha. We're going to be learning some great things. It'll be so exciting. First, get your things together, we're going on a road trip... a dirt road trip. We're going to explore the desert for the next 40 years.

In the desert... Ok, class be good and meditate or something. I'm going up the mountain for a few days and get your next class lesson from God. Be good and don't go worshiping Golden Calf's or something that is an abomination to the Lord. Bye.

Next Lesson... Now class, we have new rules. If you are bad, you can have a priest kill a goat or lamb and God will forgive you. If you're really bad, like do something, almost anything on Saturday, the Sabbath, the rest of us get to participate in a rock fight. Won't that be fun? Only thing is, we have all the rocks and you're the target. On and on it goes.

4the grade... Kyle why are you still a Jew? Don't you believe I'm the one and only teacher and I'm willing to and will die for you? Why don't you join the rest of my disciples Kenny the poor fisherman's son, Stan, the tax-gather's son and Cartman, the one who will betray for a song.

"Well teacher Jesus, I don't believe you're the true teacher. Moses told us to follow all the rules and that there is only one God."

"Kyle, there is only one God, and He and I are One... along with the Holy Spirit whom I'll send to keep you company after I depart."

"What are you trying to say?"

"Kyle, I am He. The first teacher and the last. I was from the beginning and will ever be."

At recess... Cartman, "What do you think guys. I think Jesus thinks he's God. We should turn him into the principal and get him fired."

Stan, "Cartman, you're an idiot. I think he's such a good teacher, that he's gotta be God in the flesh."

At the end of the semester... The Principal, "It's come to our attention, thanks to Eric Cartman, that you, Jesus, say you're God. I'm sorry but we're going to have to kill you."

The boys are off for summer vacation and are at the playground... Stan, "Who's that shooting hoops?"

Kenny mumbles, "It's Jesus. He's alive!"

Cartman says, "What? Ah, sorry guys I just remembered I have somewhere to be."

Anyway, 5th grade with Muhammad and 6th grade with the Bab? (a short, very short semester) Then on to Junior High with Baha'u'llah.

Hmmm, progressive? From the same one God? It's the craziest school I ever heard of. But, we are learning things and moving forward. So I guess you're right. It is progressive?

I wish I could give more than one ratings this.

 

[CG Didymus]

I wish I could give more than one ratings this.

Thanks, when I hit the 4th grade, I had to do a "South Park" spoof.

 

[CG Didymus]

...The virgin birth a proof? How can we possibly prove that Mary was a virgin?

The most important proofs are the Life and Teachings of the Manifestations themselves and the power they have to transform our lives and those around us. Prophecies have their place.

Most of them, yes. Some will be fulfilled once Baha'u'llah's world order is better established. Were there any you had in mind?

The NT says that Mary was a virgin, so that settles that. Isaiah isn't necessarily a prophecy about the Messiah being born of a virgin. The word can mean merely a "young woman". Plus, in context, the sign given to King Ahaz doesn't need for the child to be born of a virgin. It only need the child to reach a certain age. The prophecy has to happen by that time. So a really big stretch to take a few verses out of Isaiah and make it a prophecy about Jesus.

The lives of so many people are inspiring. The lives of the manifestations are questionable. Are they myths and legends? Do Christians really use the life of Jesus and try and live like did? All of the advice he gave to people in the NT would be tough to follow... he told one guy to give away all his money and possessions. He says to pluck out your eye or cut off your hand if they offend you, funny, Christians do take that symbolically. He says his followers will perform miracles of healing and will be able to take up serpents.

Now both of those are done and are very controversial. Healing services have so many healing of bad back and migraines, but in all the ones I went to, I never saw a person get out of their wheelchair. Even other Christians are embarrassed by the "faith healers". But the snake handlers, I love them. They put their faith on the line ever time they pick up a rattlesnake. Crazy? Or, just doing what Jesus said?

And nothing like threatening people with torture and death to get them to convert. Yes, their lives were transformed. I don't know if I asked you this, but I was thinking, during the Inquisition, what would have been better? What would God have preferred? The Christian Church at the time was corrupt, but it had the NT, the new covenant, the new truth from God. The Jews were still following their old traditions. Were those traditions really what God wanted? Were they, like Jesus said, traditions of men? But what should they do? Stay with their own religions and die? Or, convert and follow different traditions of other men, the Christian traditions. Traditions that would later get called into question by Martin Luther.

I wonder how many people in any religions really try to follow the teachings perfectly? Then, how many abuse them, use them to control others and gain power and wealth. And, how many are just trying to get by and are doing the minimum so as not to get in trouble with the religious authorities?

And now for the toughest question yet... what musical instrument do you play?

Oh, and I almost forgot, which, prophecy. The prophecy about wars and rumors of war, but that's not the end. It implies that if there are still wars going on that he hasn't come back yet. Thanks.

 

[scott_42]

How do we explain these Great Beings: Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab & Bahaullah? They are somewhat unique and unparalleled in human history and were clearly not ordinary people.

There are famous people in history, famous artists, musicians and scientists but none can compare to the influence of the Educator, Teacher, Messiah or Prophet.

But Who were they? And why were they and still are so influential throughout history? Why did they inspire civilizations? Why have their scriptures become patterns of life followed daily by billions of people for thousands of years?

What gift did they possess to be able to be persecuted, oppressed, tortured, exiled and crucified by the most despotic and powerful leaders of their age with but a handful of followers and yet eventually triumph over adversity and establish Their Cause all over the world?

Statues, Churches, Temples, Pagodas, Mosques and Synagogues are built all over the world to pay tribute to these Great Souls.

Are they from another world? Did they pre exist? Without a special power how could they have accomplished what they did and who is their equal in influence?

And aren't we in dire need of another Great Spiritual Teacher to revive us spiritually?

I think most (if not all) of them simply had, not only the ability to capture and keep our attention, but also to use that ability to gain and maintain their 'spiritual influence'. Nice to meet all of you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think most (if not all) of them simply had, not only the ability to capture and keep our attention, but also to use that ability to gain and maintain their 'spiritual influence'. Nice to meet all of you.

Welcome to religious forums Scott, I hope you enjoy your time here. Yes and they somehow still influence us today thousands of years after they've died but in no small way. Billions of people try to live the life they taught in their daily lives. Very impressive!

 

[loverofhumanity]

Couldn't find them all. Like finding Waldo.

The Bahá'í administration is essentially spiritual in nature, although practical in application. Bahá'ís believe in the idea of progressive revelation - that is, that each religion is from God, and that each builds on the one before it.

I'm kinda tearing this a part. Each religion is from god? All religions or just a few?

Social laws differ from one religion to the next because they were revealed at different times and at different stages in the development of humankind. The Bahá'í administration is, in this way, ideally suited to the present stage of civilisation.

As a result of "Social laws differ from one religion to the next because they were revealed at different times and at different stages in the development of humankind." each religion is completely different than another. They cannot all be from god because that is depreciating religions who define god totally different than Bahai and in other religions there is no such thing as god/creator/supreme being whatsoever. This is a Bahai claim or belief but in order to be correct it needs to be correct to the religions Bahai talks about.

Although the Bahá'í administration is not rigid in its form, there are certain fundamental principles involved. There are local and national institutions, and there is a world body, known as the Universal House of Justice. A brief look at some aspects of these bodies will give us some understanding of the nature and purpose of Bahá'í administration.

In each area where there are sufficient Bahá'ís, a Local Spiritual Assembly is formed. An annual election takes place for the nine members of the Assembly. Bahá'u'lláh, the Founder of the Bahá'í Faith, announced: "The Lord hath ordained that in every city a House of Justice be established wherein shall gather counsellors to the number of Bahá(9)..."

The functions of the Local Spiritual Assembly are many, and a feature of Bahá'í administration is the freedom of initiative accorded to these local Assemblies. They are essentially responsible for the well-being of all: "They must endeavour to promote amity and concord... They must do their utmost to extend at all times the helping hand to the poor, the sick, the disabled, the orphan, the widow, irrespective of colour, caste and creed...

Being part of a spiritual process, all Bahá'í elections take place without any form of electioneering. Each believer is simply called upon to cast a vote by secret ballot for any nine people from the local Bahá'í community, according to his or her conscience, aided by prayer and meditation. The nine people who receive the most votes become the members of the Local Spiritual Assembly.

While many may not call this traditions, history, and culture. It is in part because it tells what your beliefs are, how you practice it, how your religion and organizations are conducted, what is said and not said, history of the founders, statement of faith, and so forth.



Religions don't make people do these things. People do these things in the name of religion. Don't cure the religion. If you want to help people, help the people understand love and unity. If they find these things in their respective faiths, who gives you and any else the right to tell them otherwise?

If anything, trying to do so is contradicting the purpose of your religion.

[/quote]For it is clear that the purpose of a remedy is to cure; but if the remedy should only aggravate the complaint it had better be left alone. Any religion which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion. All the holy prophets were as doctors to the soul; they gave prescriptions for the healing of mankind; thus any remedy that causes disease does not come from the great and supreme Physician." Baha'i writings[/QUOTE]

Not all religions, say Pagan religions, are based on unity and love. That does not mean they cannot be in accord with other faiths. It means to respect how they view the world and how their foundations for what you call unity is different (not by the same name, but completely different in meaning, language, and culture). Not wrong. Not bad. It doesn't bring people a part unless religions like Bahai, Christianity, and so forth want to make others be like them. Christians believe in love and unity and want to bring everyone to christ to do so. Bahai has their views of bringing people into love and unity.

Does any religious (not just you two) ask what makes the other person happy and not yourselves?

Even more so, strive, like bodhisattvas, help others by their own methods not by their own?



Step back a minute.

Isn't this the exact thing you are doing as other religions do? Your goal for unity and peace doesn't exclude that you want your way and others want it theirs. If there is unity, there should be respect for the differences that are not under the same names. If you don't take the other party's claim into consideration as truth just as you understand it, that is not unity and that is not peace. That is going against what you want and it creates discord which is opposite of what your motto promotes.

You don't have to kill, steal, and be violent to keep the world from unity and peace.



Any religion that doesn't respect other people's definition of love and unity and respect that many religions don't have that goal would help achieve that goal. Any religion, violent or not, that oversteps other people's views one by redefining their religion, saying that their religion is a part of another person's religion, or adding subtracting things from those said religions is not creating peace. It doesn't have to be violent to create discord among religions you want to gather in one name.



I had to cut it short. Not all religions have god. So you want to bring all religions into one religion thereby putting god into godless religions, redefining god from other religions, and subtracting many gods on X religion so that it only believes in one god or creator (rather than three) in another?

You kinda get the pattern.

1. You want unity and love under one religion because you feel many religions are conflicting causing violence, murder, and so forth

In reality, if you know each religious rather than going by collective religions, and not just learn their differences but realize their differences conflict with your own (as you see other religions conflict as well-so you're not excluded), then you'd get a sense that you can still find love and unity but unity involves agreement with more than one person. Love is defined many ways and it is not under one name.

You are in conflict with other religions as they are in conflict with themselves. If you guys don't see that, none of yall will achieve your goals.



[/QUOTE]

We believe each age there was a religion with remedies for that age and that for this age the remedies of the past won't work so God has given a remedy that is for this age and it is One Common Faith, One Universal Cause.

The religions of the past cannot fix or address the problems of today for many reasons. They are disunited, Their laws are no relevant for our age such as Holy War in a nuclear age.

What is clearly needed is a new start and that is what Baha'u'llah came to bring. Not only new laws but a new way of life and a new administration. The world is in need of a spiritual awakening or revival as corruption, materialism and other problems such as violence, wars, rape, crime, drugs & racism are rampant features of our world, our so called religious world where we have billions of religious people. They are not able to fix these problems because the root cause is a defective system.

Baha'u'llah came to bring an entirely new System not just a religion. He came to renew civilisation and raise it to a spiritual level above consumerism and capitalism, racism and nationalism. To create a world spiritual civilisation also known as thr Kingdom of God on earth that Christians have been praying for God to send for thousands of years.

As the old religions are part of the problem and not the solution, Baha'u'llah has made a distinction between the new and the old. He does not accept all the divisive interpretatIons of the priests and clergy but brings everything back to a common foundation which can make a new start. It's impossible to make a new start if we get stuck in the interpretations of the past.

The old world must make way for the new and not crucify humanity just to keep laws which are no longer helpful to our society. This system is not focused on things like helping the poor or creating peace or universal health care and education or world employment but instead on filling the pockets of a few. The system Baha'u'llah brings is a cause justice and peace for all not just the few.

People want change and cannot get a new just system from today's politicians. That's why Baha'u'llah came for people who want a new world that is based on morals, virtues and spirituality not greed and corruption.

Change is a test for humanity whenever it comes but I'd much rather a new System that puts people first than this one which clearly has failed us all.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why do you take your interpretation of Hindu scripture when Hinduism isn't people-of-the-book and, instead, ask a Hindu whether what you believe is actually Hinduism?

If it isn't, that is okay, as long as you admit that what you believe is not the beliefs of Hinduism. Although wrong and inappropriate, it's better say "I don't know Hinduism yet I believe in X" than "Hinduism believes in X (cause I'm quoting from their "scripture" therefore it proves my belief is Y) regardless the time period, ara, and nature of the two religions involved)

I don't know everything about Hinduism but a lot of what I do know we accept. We have many things in common.