How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

I do not think I have ever said there is a flaw in our misunderstandings, in error we can find the wisdom of the right way. Christ was always guiding His Disciples to be open to greater understandings.

Regards Tony

Can you clarify why you'd say we have flawed understandings ( as with other times you mentioned it) and bahauullah's quote?

Frame of Reference is the key. But who's do we use, or own often proved flawed understandings, or the understandings of the Great Beings?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Can you clarify why you'd say we have flawed understandings ( as with other times you mentioned it) and bahauullah's quote?

Frame of Reference is the key. But who's do we use, or own often proved flawed understandings, or the understandings of the Great Beings?

Yes I will clarify.

We do not get it always right. Is there a flaw in us getting it wrong? No there is not. This is the gift of free will, the gift of Choice.

If we had no choice, we can not know right from wrong, as humans we will get it wrong and will hopefully learn not to repeat the mistake.

All that has happened to this moment in time, has pointed each of us to our next thought, our next decision. Will the Decision be Right or Wrong? Rest assured whatever it is, or not, it will lead us to our next choice.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

I still say unity among diversity is encouraging others to belief in their faith and not seeing flaws among their individual real blessings they have Not turned against. You two have different beliefs. If bahai is about peace why see division as flaws of a person's individual relationship with Christ?

True Christians? Would that mean (again) if I were christian my relationship with Christ is off because we differ in belief of his second comming?

Even Christians disagree with who and when Jesus is coming. Why reinvent the wheel?

As I stated. It’s for God to judge. We of course are friends with and have good relations with Christians. As far as we’re concerned they are our fellow human beings, our brothers and sisters.

All we can do is announce the joyful glad tidings that the Promised Christ has returned and lovingly appeal to them, for their own sakes, to look at the evidence with an open and unbiased mind.

Anyone who truly loves Jesus would never ever even for a second want to do that which displeased Him so upon hearing He might have returned should be eager to investigate it lest he forsake the well Beloved of his heart unknowingly.

My worst nightmare I could imagine as a Christian is that I, because of my own stubbornness, ended up rejecting my own Lord Jesus return when I heard about it simply because the rest of my fellow Christians rejected it.

Not even to investigate it. What if it’s all true? How sincere a Christian would I be then if I just clung stubbornly to my own view and ended up rejecting my own Lord?

 

[Trailblazer]

Anyone who truly loves Jesus would never ever even for a second want to do that which displeased Him so upon hearing He might have returned should be eager to investigate it lest he forsake the well Beloved of his heart unknowingly.

So why aren't they? Because they are waiting for the same man Jesus, the physical body of Jesus that they believe resurrected and ascended. Nothing less will do. Simple as that.

My worst nightmare I could imagine as a Christian is that I, because of my own stubbornness, ended up rejecting my own Lord Jesus return when I heard about it simply because the rest of my fellow Christians rejected it.

It is just too bad most Christians do not think like you. But because they believe in the resurrection and the ascension of the same man Jesus, it has to be the same man Jesus that returns, not Baha'u'llah.

Not even to investigate it. What if it’s all true? How sincere a Christian would I be then if I just clung stubbornly to my own view and ended up rejecting my own Lord?

They do not investigate it because they are waiting for the same man Jesus and Baha'u'llah is a different man. According to their biblical interpretation it has to be the same man Jesus, so unless they believe a different interpretation could be possible, there is no way they can ever recognize Baha'u'llah as the Return of Christ.

 

[Trailblazer]

As I stated. It’s for God to judge. We of course are friends with and have good relations with Christians. As far as we’re concerned they are our fellow human beings, our brothers and sisters.

All we can do is announce the joyful glad tidings that the Promised Christ has returned and lovingly appeal to them, for their own sakes, to look at the evidence with an open and unbiased mind.

Anyone who truly loves Jesus would never ever even for a second want to do that which displeased Him so upon hearing He might have returned should be eager to investigate it lest he forsake the well Beloved of his heart unknowingly.

My worst nightmare I could imagine as a Christian is that I, because of my own stubbornness, ended up rejecting my own Lord Jesus return when I heard about it simply because the rest of my fellow Christians rejected it.

Not even to investigate it. What if it’s all true? How sincere a Christian would I be then if I just clung stubbornly to my own view and ended up rejecting my own Lord?

This is what I meant by what I just posted to you: #37

If Baha'is think they can cut through that they will have to come up with another method.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So why aren't they? Because they are waiting for the same man Jesus, the physical body of Jesus that they believe resurrected and ascended. Nothing less will do. Simple as that.

It is just too bad most Christians do not think like you. But because they believe in the resurrection and the ascension of the same man Jesus, it has to be the same man Jesus that returns, not Baha'u'llah.

They do not investigate it because they are waiting for the same man Jesus and Baha'u'llah is a different man. According to their biblical interpretation it has to be the same man Jesus, so unless they believe a different interpretation could be possible, there is no way they can ever recognize Baha'u'llah as the Return of Christ.

And how, after 2,000 years pray tell, do Christians intend to identify this same man Jesus when no one alive has ever seen Him or knows what He looks like?

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is what I meant by what I just posted to you: #37

If Baha'is think they can cut through that they will have to come up with another method.

I think that things are changing as the different religionists become disillusioned with their leaders because until they stop turning to their leaders they can’t think for themselves.

So things like terrorism and child sexual abuse are making people realise that the leaders to whom they turn are corrupt and not bearers of truth.

Take again the situation in places like Iran. The people want the Mullas out and once they do get them out the Bahai Faith will be accepted by the masses because of its universal acceptance and lack of fanatical clergy.

Religious leaders control the minds of their followers but as they fall and are discredited, people begin to understand that they must find truth for themselves. It’s a slow process but one set in motion by Baha’u’llah when He said ...

From two ranks amongst men, power hath been seized: kings and ecclesiastics ( Baha’u’llah)

We have seen the fall of monarchies and now are witnessing the fall of ecclesiastics.

 

[Trailblazer]

And how, after 2,000 years pray tell, do Christians intend to identify this same man Jesus when no one alive has ever seen Him or knows what He looks like?

I have asked but they have no answer... They say that they will "just know" because it will be obvious to everyone since Jesus will put on a big show in the sky...

One Christian just kept referring to this verse:
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I have asked but they have no answer... They say that they will "just know" because it will be obvious to everyone since Jesus will put on a big show in the sky...

One Christian just kept referring to this verse:
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

If it was going to be that obvious then why did Jesus tell them to ‘watch and pray? No need to watch if it’s that obvious.

The problem is they can’t reason beyond what the minister says. Their god is not God but the clergy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As I stated. It’s for God to judge. We of course are friends with and have good relations with Christians. As far as we’re concerned they are our fellow human beings, our brothers and sisters.

All we can do is announce the joyful glad tidings that the Promised Christ has returned and lovingly appeal to them, for their own sakes, to look at the evidence with an open and unbiased mind.

Anyone who truly loves Jesus would never ever even for a second want to do that which displeased Him so upon hearing He might have returned should be eager to investigate it lest he forsake the well Beloved of his heart unknowingly.

My worst nightmare I could imagine as a Christian is that I, because of my own stubbornness, ended up rejecting my own Lord Jesus return when I heard about it simply because the rest of my fellow Christians rejected it.

Not even to investigate it. What if it’s all true? How sincere a Christian would I be then if I just clung stubbornly to my own view and ended up rejecting my own Lord?

But my questions and subject were why you talk other an individuals faith by telling me they (as a group) are divided and dont seek bahauallah, etc?

If god is to judge, why not encourage christians to believe only in christ and not bahaullah? Can you encourage people to follow their own beliefs without stating your own as a prerequiste of them?

My second question is because you see christians as divided and turned from the "real" faith (i.e. those who see the secomd coming vs those who dont), you are talking about individuals not a group of people (not generalizing). Therefore, the peace you want comes from seeing people divided rather than encouragjng people above in Their beliefs to work together Without bahauah.

If it was only god to judge, why express that we are flawed when only god can tell if we are: god of hindus, god of muhammad, god of christians/jesus, god of bahai, god of jews?

If its only god to judge, why see negativity in division instead of similarities among those who disagree with you?

Not similarities as in we have the same faith and goals, we dont. See similarities by working together in a goal we all agree with.

Can you do that or do you only see people undivided if bahaullah is not involved?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not similarities as in we have the same faith and goals, we dont. See similarities by working together in a goal we all agree with.

Can you do that or do you only see people undivided if bahaullah is not involved?

This is very important Carlita and it is what the Universal House of Justice has guided us to do.

It is the Community Building Process empowering children and youth in the foundation based on virtues and service to community.This is what is currently offered to all communities.

Baha'u'llah can not be taken out of the process, but no other Faith, or no Faith can be either. Each of us that wish to build our community on virtues would agree that we work together to find and work on our common virtues.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If its only god to judge, why see negativity in division instead of similarities among those who disagree with you?

If you go back through this post, you will find that this is what has been offered time and again.

Example of how this works in practice.

A Christain Loves Jesus the Christ and in that Love practices doctrine formulated to reign in thought that rejects any other (Not all practice this). How do they view Muslim and Bahai views of Jesus the Christ? What is the usual response to the Prophets of other Faiths?

A Baha'i Loves Jesus the Christ and is happy to share that love with Christains that practice Doctrine, and Muslims that have their Idea of Christ, mindful that we do not partake in the set doctrine. This is also the way a Baha'i views all other Prophets.

So which view of Christ is more accepting and I ask who is it that is looking for as much common ground as possible?

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is very important Carlita and it is what the Universal House of Justice has guided us to do.

It is the Community Building Process empowering children and youth in the foundation based on virtues and service to community.This is what is currently offered to all communities.

Baha'u'llah can not be taken out of the process, but no other Faith, or no Faith can be either. Each of us that wish to build our community on virtues would agree that we work together to find and work on our common virtues.

Regards Tony

I was addressing what Lover said.

Repeatidly every Bahai here has said other faiths are misguided, lost, divided, etc. Cant gake that back, right?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you go back through this post, you will find that this is what has been offered time and again.

Example of how this works in practice.

A Christain Loves Jesus the Christ and in that Love practices doctrine formulated to reign in thought that rejects any other (Not all practice this). How do they view Muslim and Bahai views of Jesus the Christ? What is the usual response to the Prophets of other Faiths?

A Baha'i Loves Jesus the Christ and is happy to share that love with Christains that practice Doctrine, and Muslims that have their Idea of Christ, mindful that we do not partake in the set doctrine. This is also the way a Baha'i views all other Prophets.

So which view of Christ is more accepting and I ask who is it that is looking for as much common ground as possible?

Regards Tony

I was addressing what lover said. Going by christianity, offers are only to those who accept. Heaven is not for those who disagree.

What is Our commom goal?

Mine.
Hindu.
Buddhist.
Christian.
Muslim.
Pagan.
Wiccan.
Druid.
Shinto.

Etc.

What common virtues do We All agree with that is the Foundation (the sun) and Not its rays?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I was addressing what Lover said.

Repeatidly every Bahai here has said other faiths are misguided, lost, divided, etc. Cant gake that back, right?

That is a natural progression of Conversation for those that reject the notion of looking for a common foundation. More is offered as to what divisions are formed.

As a Baha'i I come and say all The Great Beings have come from the same source. All Faith has the same foundations of virtue and all we have to do is look and find our common foundation.

Who is it then that takes the conversation away from finding this unity?

I am Happy for you to quote a Buhddhist passage and then we can explore all the writings of the Great Beings and see if what was quoted can be found in those other writings.

Lets Go, are you ready for that now?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What common virtues do We All agree with that is the Foundation (the sun) and Not its rays?

Post a virtue passage from the Buddha and lets explore this aspect in other writings.

I am working for the next 8 hrs.

But happy to do this with you.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

If it was going to be that obvious then why did Jesus tell them to ‘watch and pray? No need to watch if it’s that obvious.

That is a very good point. We have all the verses that say that He will come like a thief in the night, which means He will be in and out and nobody will see Him.

Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

Matthew 24:42-44 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Mark 13:32-36 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

They are looking for the literal fulfillment of these verses:

2 Peter 3:10-13 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The problem is they can’t reason beyond what the minister says. Their god is not God but the clergy.

That is where they got the beliefs in the first place but the reason they cling to them is because of their emotional attachment to the same man Jesus and the "idea" of Him returning in the sky, and all that is supposed to happen after that. It is like we spoiled their homecoming party.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think that things are changing as the different religionists become disillusioned with their leaders because until they stop turning to their leaders they can’t think for themselves.

So things like terrorism and child sexual abuse are making people realise that the leaders to whom they turn are corrupt and not bearers of truth.

Take again the situation in places like Iran. The people want the Mullas out and once they do get them out the Bahai Faith will be accepted by the masses because of its universal acceptance and lack of fanatical clergy.

Religious leaders control the minds of their followers but as they fall and are discredited, people begin to understand that they must find truth for themselves. It’s a slow process but one set in motion by Baha’u’llah when He said ...

From two ranks amongst men, power hath been seized: kings and ecclesiastics ( Baha’u’llah)

We have seen the fall of monarchies and now are witnessing the fall of ecclesiastics.

It is true that people turn to their leaders but what I have seen on the forums is that they turn to their Bibles and their interpretations of those verses... They will not consider any interpretation other than their own interpretation and they cannot look at anything else BUT the Bible, so that puts them in a box...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Post a virtue passage from the Buddha and lets explore this aspect in other writings.

I am working for the next 8 hrs.

But happy to do this with you.

Regards Tony

Virtues aren't foundations but the result of them.

For example:

What is the foundation for compassion in your view?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Virtues aren't foundations but the result of them.

For example:

What is the foundation for compassion in your view?

You can not have a result that is no preceded by a cause, thus the foundation of compassion is Compassion itself. Anything less, is lack of Compasssion.

Compassion exists even if we choose not to use it. This is Applicable to all virtues.

Thus we now ask where do we find the source of True Compassion?

My opinion is by looking at the Great Beings.

Regards Tony