How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

Ok. What did the 12 disciples believe in? The Bible and sacraments didn’t exist at the time. That’s my point. They believed in Christ without any of the current traditions or customs as they didn’t come into existence until hundreds of years after Christ had died.

The gospels mention baptism, communion, repentance, and confirmation. Repentance and communion are all through the OT.

Where in the bible are these things instituted after The Church when these things have been practiced way before Jesus was born?

We can never know what it is like to be a ‘traditional’ Christian but we can still believe in Christ. The basis of their belief was Chrust was sent by God.

Traditional Christian? A Christian is a Christian-no bad vs. good.

What I’m saying is we can still believe in Christ like the dusviples did and that was good enough for Christ. The same with all the other Teachers.

Anyone can believe in the virtues of all the religions. The difference is getting the facts straight from the religion's perspective not your own if you want to respect the religious and religions that you want to believe in. Kind of like saying "I love you jesus" but on the other hand "but all you did was symbolic."

Buddhists follow Dhamma but Who’s Dhamma? The Buddha’s not anyone’s Dhamma so it still brings us back to the Messenger, Teacher, Prophet, Manifestation or Prophet doesn’t it?

Who??? Buddhism isn't a prophet faith. It is what.

Do you know what The Dharma is?

Another question. How do you know that every teaching that is attributed to Buddha is from Him?

The problem with that thought is thinking The Buddha needs to be authority of The Dhamma in order for it to be authentic. It is not a prophet faith. The Dhamma is not dependent on The Buddha's existence.

He realized The Dhamma. He did not create it.

It’s like the hadiths and Sayings of Muhammad many of which were false have been accepted as truth and terrorists use them to justify violence when they never came from Muhammad at all.

I don't know anything about the Quran only Catholicism, Nichiren (Tendai), and Zen Buddhism and what I study and practice directly from The Dharma. It is not a prophet faith.

I think the Word Manifestation is being mistaken for God. A Manifestation of God just means Prophet or Teacher or Voice of God but not God Himself. Baha’u’llah speaks on behalf of God but is not God Himself.

That works for Christ, Muhammad, and Zoroaster. It does not work for Krishna and The Buddha.

Yes Dhamma is still here as is the Torah, Bible and Quran but how we need a solution for today’s disunity between Faiths, nations and races.

The Torah, Bible, and Quran are inspired by god through the prophets.

The Dharma is not like that both in Buddhism and in Hinduism.

There is no disunity in faiths if each person follows their faith the best they can. If we respect and work together (not a new system) without needing to change our faiths to do so, then I see more positively happen. If we are looking for unity and one new system instituted by Bahaullah, I do not see that bringing unity to those who disagree.

There is urgent need for a universal ethic which can embrace all humanity.

Yes. Politically. Not by Bahaullah.

 

[Vinayaka]

It must be tough being an atheist with no gods to love. Some of these gods of lust must be enticing though....

You sure you don't want to be a theist?

Most atheists I knew were very happy. I don't see any relationship between faith and happiness. Happiness can strike anyone.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think Hinduism is harder for Muslims and Christians to make sense of compared to the Baha'i Faith. Personally, I wouldn't go near what the Muslims and Christians have to say about the Hindus. I'm enjoying learning about it here from you guys and others on RF.

Definitely. Very different paradigm, and 1000 times wider in doctrines/philosophies. Each of a thousand schools is as large philosophically as Baha'i. A newcomer could get the entire gist of Baha'i in a couple of hours, probably much less. Whereas Hinduism ... I'm 40 years in, and still don't know much.

 

[Vinayaka]

We can see from the 'Terms' that Bahaullah used in His Writings, He made allusions that He and the Bab were fulfilling the Prophecies of Bible.

Allusions aren't proof. Although, to their credit, it does leave things open to later interpretation to suit the agenda. Most people prefer direct statements to allusion.

 

[Vinayaka]

Bahaullah wrote everything in Scriptures were fulfilled:

And again, that is not proof. Anyone can write anything they want to. All it says is that somebody wrote something. "Paris is the capital of Austrralia.' See how easy that is.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ah, yes, but I believe (have never watched, you understand) that theists do have assistance from their deities during love-making......... have even been known to call out to them at times of excitement.

So the delicate question begs, 'Have you ever called out to any body yourself?'

Try to understand this.

"Brahmārpanam Brahma havih Brahmāgnau Brahmāhutam;
Brahmaiva tena gantavyam Brahmakarma samādhinā."

The process of offering is Brahman, the oblation is Brahman, the instrument of offering is Brahman, the fire to which the offering is made is also Brahman. For such a one who abides in Brahman, by him alone Brahman is reached.

In mundane language, "The process of eating is Brahman, the eaten is Brahman, the instrument of eating is Brahman, eater is Brahman. For such one who abides in Brahman, by him alone Brahman is reached."

There is no second. To see a second is an illusion (Maya).

 

[oldbadger]

Definitely will be interesting to have a Jewish perspective on the Pharisees. I don't think he'll be too keen on the pro Jeus stance of the Baha'is.

Ummmmm, yeah. If you can't read the Tanakh(?) in Hebrew then you're a right foreigner, to some.

Tumah........ I'll copy that post to Tumah.

 

[oldbadger]

On a slightly more serious notes, as Jesus's reserved His most severe criticism for the religious leadership of His people (particularly the Pharisees), so Baha'u'llah was very critical of the Islamic clergy or leaders who had corrupted Islam. The Mulla's were dismissive of the authenticity of the Bible. Baha'u'llah refutes view as being contrary to a loving God.

On the side, the Pharisees were a strange bunch of folks, some were self-elevated peasants, others were Levites of too low an order to join the priesthood, yet others were members of the priesthood.
Fi, Flavius Josephus was a Levite, a priest and a pharisee.
I wonder if I might ask @Tumah .............
I have yet to nail down exactly what position, influence and powers the Pharisees had 'in their own name'.

 

[oldbadger]

I'm more into a gender neutral God if thats what you're getting at?

No....... I was getting at ........ that my Goddess is a, ummm..... female Deity, the only one 'n all.

For a Deist, all things out there are a part of Nature, and since I have always thought of 'Mother Nature' I am quite prepared to snuggle down into her feminine embrace, come hell or high water...... probably both, one day.

 

[oldbadger]

Try to understand this.

I do try, honestly, I strive in ernest to understand.
But wherever you got your teaching qualifications from, all I can say is .... :- Damn!

"Brahmārpanam Brahma havih Brahmāgnau Brahmāhutam;
Brahmaiva tena gantavyam Brahmakarma samādhinā."

OK........... and ........

In mundane language,

Yes! Oh, Yes! Here it is..........

"The process of eating is Brahman, the eaten is Brahman, the instrument of eating is Brahman, eater is Brahman. For such one who abides in Brahman, by him alone Brahman is reached."

....and you thought I didn't know that?
I live by that, just calling by a different name.
I don't use your language, nor need to.

Try to understand that.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is urgent need for a universal ethic which can embrace all humanity.

No there isn't. We're doing fine. 95% of people get along. There is no Armageddon. It is not doomsday.

 

[Vinayaka]

Of course no one with any sense in New Zealand pays any attention to this kind of trash.

It probably contributes to the rapidly dwindling numbers of Christians in New Zealand through.

And yet, it seems you are unable to see the double standard. When I read that paper, it seemed quite clear that they understood the basics of Baha'i belief. Of course after the introduction of 'What is Baha'i?' It went on to explain how Christianity was so much better, giving all the point-counterpount one might expect. The format was very similar to the Momen (sp) Baha'i paper on Hinduism.

So it's not okay for Christians to give their relationship, view of Baha'i, yet it is okay for Baha'i' to give their version of Christianity. (and al the other world's faiths) That seems hypocritical.

 

[Vinayaka]

I live by that, just calling by a different name.

Me too.

 

[oldbadger]

No there isn't. We're doing fine. 95% of people get along. There is no Armageddon. It is not doomsday.

The above sent to another...

Universal Ethic.
What do you think about our new universal communication systems? Are they for better or worse?
Could IT bring humanity into more close understanding, faster and more exact education, etc, or will IT drive us further apart?

 

[Vinayaka]

The above sent to another...

Universal Ethic.
What do you think about our new universal communication systems? Are they for better or worse?
Could IT bring humanity into more close understanding, faster and more exact education, etc, or will IT drive us further apart?

I think it has added a more emotional response factor to communication. It may have been better to have to think things over a bit before hitting 'send'. When we had to sit down and write a letter in pen on paper, more reasoned thought was put into it. Certainly not knee-jerk. But I also see people recognising this downside too, and adjusting some.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No there isn't. We're doing fine. 95% of people get along. There is no Armageddon. It is not doomsday.

There are a lot of signs of the collapse of modern civilization. Political corruption, moral decay, unemployment, vast expenditures on military, widespread drug addiction, the increasing rate of suicide, alcoholism, ethnic cleansing, mass exodus of refugees. The increase in build up of nuclear weapons, the weakening of religion and racial strife. Also global warming.

These seem more like signs that brought about the fall of the Roman Empire than a Utopia to me which you seem to be describing.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The gospels mention baptism, communion, repentance, and confirmation. Repentance and communion are all through the OT.

Where in the bible are these things instituted after The Church when these things have been practiced way before Jesus was born?



Traditional Christian? A Christian is a Christian-no bad vs. good.



Anyone can believe in the virtues of all the religions. The difference is getting the facts straight from the religion's perspective not your own if you want to respect the religious and religions that you want to believe in. Kind of like saying "I love you jesus" but on the other hand "but all you did was symbolic."



Who??? Buddhism isn't a prophet faith. It is what.

Do you know what The Dharma is?



The problem with that thought is thinking The Buddha needs to be authority of The Dhamma in order for it to be authentic. It is not a prophet faith. The Dhamma is not dependent on The Buddha's existence.

He realized The Dhamma. He did not create it.



I don't know anything about the Quran only Catholicism, Nichiren (Tendai), and Zen Buddhism and what I study and practice directly from The Dharma. It is not a prophet faith.



That works for Christ, Muhammad, and Zoroaster. It does not work for Krishna and The Buddha.



The Torah, Bible, and Quran are inspired by god through the prophets.

The Dharma is not like that both in Buddhism and in Hinduism.

There is no disunity in faiths if each person follows their faith the best they can. If we respect and work together (not a new system) without needing to change our faiths to do so, then I see more positively happen. If we are looking for unity and one new system instituted by Bahaullah, I do not see that bringing unity to those who disagree.



Yes. Politically. Not by Bahaullah.

The thing is we’ve tried the old ways and had two world wars that brought massive destruction and massive loss of life. It wasn’t enough and isn’t enough to stop more nations from going nuclear or using them.

World unity is the only thing we haven’t seriously tried. If it doesn’t work we can always go back to our old ways.

 

[Vinayaka]

These seem more like signs that brought about the fall of the Roman Empire than a Utopia to me which you seem to be describing.

Not describing utopia at all, as I don't believe utopia exists on this planet, nor will it ever exists. It's a daydream for people attached to these physical bodies, not actually believing in an afterlife. Challenges are what makes the soul evolve.

We have less wars, less starvation (although Yemen because of Saudi, and Saudi supporters might change that ... very quickly) more harmony, less religious dogma, more yoga and inner striving for peace, better food, better health, better sanitation, a really significant trend towards renewable energy and sustainable agriculture and much more. Of course, if you wish, you could change your name to PessimisticaboutHumanity if you want to.

Of course, as a Hindu mystic, my personal focus is far more about inner change, not external pessimism. But you go ahead.

 

[Vinayaka]

The thing is we’ve tried the old ways and had two world wars that brought massive destruction and massive loss of life. It wasn’t enough and isn’t enough to stop more nations from going nuclear or using them.

World unity is the only thing we haven’t seriously tried. If it doesn’t work we can always go back to our old ways.

What's with Australians and New Zealanders when they first get out of bed. Do you guys all have poor sleep, and jump on the forums before breakfast, having gotten up on the wrong side of bed. I noticed this in Tony too. Far less negative by the afternoon. Have some coffee, go for a walk, before you come on the forums all scolding and depressed.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The gospels mention baptism, communion, repentance, and confirmation. Repentance and communion are all through the OT.

Where in the bible are these things instituted after The Church when these things have been practiced way before Jesus was born?



Traditional Christian? A Christian is a Christian-no bad vs. good.



Anyone can believe in the virtues of all the religions. The difference is getting the facts straight from the religion's perspective not your own if you want to respect the religious and religions that you want to believe in. Kind of like saying "I love you jesus" but on the other hand "but all you did was symbolic."



Who??? Buddhism isn't a prophet faith. It is what.

Do you know what The Dharma is?



The problem with that thought is thinking The Buddha needs to be authority of The Dhamma in order for it to be authentic. It is not a prophet faith. The Dhamma is not dependent on The Buddha's existence.

He realized The Dhamma. He did not create it.



I don't know anything about the Quran only Catholicism, Nichiren (Tendai), and Zen Buddhism and what I study and practice directly from The Dharma. It is not a prophet faith.



That works for Christ, Muhammad, and Zoroaster. It does not work for Krishna and The Buddha.



The Torah, Bible, and Quran are inspired by god through the prophets.

The Dharma is not like that both in Buddhism and in Hinduism.

There is no disunity in faiths if each person follows their faith the best they can. If we respect and work together (not a new system) without needing to change our faiths to do so, then I see more positively happen. If we are looking for unity and one new system instituted by Bahaullah, I do not see that bringing unity to those who disagree.



Yes. Politically. Not by Bahaullah.

I’m happy if humanity can achieve peace and unity.