How are these Great Beings explained?

[ThePainefulTruth]

How do we explain these Great Beings: Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab & Bahaullah? They are somewhat unique and unparalleled in human history and were clearly not ordinary people.

There are famous people in history, famous artists, musicians and scientists but none can compare to the influence of the Educator, Teacher, Messiah or Prophet.

But Who were they? And why were they and still are so influential throughout history? Why did they inspire civilizations? Why have their scriptures become patterns of life followed daily by billions of people for thousands of years?

What gift did they possess to be able to be persecuted, oppressed, tortured, exiled and crucified by the most despotic and powerful leaders of their age with but a handful of followers and yet eventually triumph over adversity and establish Their Cause all over the world?

Statues, Churches, Temples, Pagodas, Mosques and Synagogues are built all over the world to pay tribute to these Great Souls.

Are they from another world? Did they pre exist? Without a special power how could they have accomplished what they did and who is their equal in influence?

And aren't we in dire need of another Great Spiritual Teacher to revive us spiritually?

All of those are forms of idolatry--worshiping the individual instead of the Truth. All individuals have flaws, and they are magnified by the flaws or evil of those who hold them up as gods of demigods. Truth can some from anywhere--out of the mouths of babes, or the Devil himself.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Weirdly enough, SGI has similar purposes. They grew in Japan, though, before they came over here to America. The only difference is they are evangelic and they do not have tenants incorporating other religious founders. (and as Buddhist, no god). But the politics and social aspects are stricken familiar.

There is a system. We can call it religion or organization; however, no religion can't be built without it.




In America, specifically on the East Coast from Virginia give or take into the southern states (to generalize the civil war times) racism is still present and we, myself as a minority, and other minorities can not only see it but feel it.

Here's a good video on how African Americans see ourselves and keeping ourselves minorities at the expense of others. If you are African American, you could probably relate. If not, then it may be hard to especially outside of the US. It's educational nonetheless.

No. It's still old covered up. I don't know about other countries. United States differ depending on the state. People still discriminate and/or undercover LGBTQ+, women, african americans, non-white men, people with disabilities, class dynamics (homelesses for example), race, among others. I always wondered, "who are the white people?" But then again, even if white people don't realize it, if they haven't grown up in a detrimentally minority environment most their life, they won't "get it." Native Americans who have not signed treaties with America so they can keep their TLC is very stringent on who, on the outside, can come into the reservations as they view whites (regardless the status or role in the community) being harmful to their communities. I mean, as a minority, one Native American (forgot the tribe) looked at my family and was so happy to see a minority that she flipped.

So no, it's not changing from old to new. Maybe other countries but not here.



Bahai has good morals. It's fine to have these things. Millions of people do.

Bahaullah has nothing to do with that. If you don't understand that you are doing what other people are doing-say the Church-by placing someone(s) in a role of interpreting unity and love for others, I don't think you will no matter how many times minorities and religious founders you place into your belief tell you, you are wrong.



That's like saying "it's only SGI that's taking the teachings not the Christianity." The two have nothing to do with each other. One is from Japan the other Jerusalem and Rome.

We can't take from your teachings. That makes no sense whatsoever. How do you take love and unity from another religion. If there are so few of you, who exactly are taking your definition of love and unity? You placed yourself as the victim. You are not. Number of people doesn't make one the majority or minority in discrimination and cultural appropriation. It just means you're outnumbered.



I live in America, so I only know from their perspective. We are Christian minded. Christianity has been around for awhile and their teachings of love and unity has been around long before Bahullah and bahai religion was born. What puzzles me is to use their founder in your new religion is a total insult to their faith. Regardless if a bahai is a christian, ex-christian, or whatever religion, if that person doesn't believe in christ and christ only, that isn't christianity.

The world wants to change Bahaullah's teachings?

America is trying to get away from Catholic teachings. We split from Britian and this is one of the reasons why we became protest-ants because of it. Historically, someone from Iran logically can't influence anything about Bahaullah's teachings other than to say you are wrong and to be christian. Anything else, just as you, yall will only see life through your own perspectives.

That is not peace and unity.

If the time ever comes when humanity prefers our system to theirs then they are welcome but otherwise it's 'live and let live'.​

My overall point exactly. It will not take time unless you are literally telling us only Bahaullah (and the various Bahai) can change our old into your new. We aren't waiting to be Bahai or see through Bahai eyes and you're just waiting.



That's a coincidence that some of our teachings and goals are ike yours but the TLC is not and because TLC defines our teachings and goals, we are not the same.

That is like a white christian telling a black christian they are alike because they share the same beliefs when, depending on where one is from, in my family, black-christianity (cough, wouldn't use the term but case in point) incorporates family practices, superstitions, and other like things. They are also heavy protestants. It's completely different than up north. I mean, I went to a white Southern Baptist Church thinking since it's the same denomination, it would be the same. It isn't. Being white isn't just a race or color of the skin. I mean, some white people call Hispanics black because they have dark skin but culturally black people would have a field day if they heard that.

You must understand other people's traditions, languages, and culture-their TLC both pun and literal-in order to achieve your goal with the agreement in scripture and religious practitioners to do so.



Catholics say the same. SGI Buddhist say the same. All the evangalical religions I know seem to say the same thing. The people who don't are minority religion. Most feel spirituality is between that person and whom or whatever they revere or worship. They also know that each person's peace is different. They just don't want to be minorities.

What is the common humanity and who and what is it based on outside of our TLC?



Again, not all religions have god. This is not common humanity, this is god-religion humanity. Your faith incorporates what you say is Buddhism and Hinduism. Buddhism has no creator. Hinduism has many and define them different.

Unless you have no creator or you have multiple, you do not share common humanity with all religions (as your site says). Just a selective few.

First way to build "common reality" is to take out god.​

If you cannot, it isn't common reality. You can still fight for good just change your perspective so you won't overstep other people's religions and TLC.

There's a very interesting prophecy about America and what will happen if blacks continue to be mistreated.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There's a very interesting prophecy about America and what will happen if blacks continue to be mistreated.

The video? Yeah, he has a lot of lectures and very pro about racial equality among black people. I mention SGI more often because they are trying to help with discrimination and a lot of the goals you have when it comes to ending violence. In their case, it is to chant and practice.

But my overall question/statement is, the only way we can have "world peace" is to get rid of Bahaullah's teachings. Is that something you can understand from other person's point of view?

 

[loverofhumanity]

There would only be unity if it were not based on bahaullahs teachings.

Let's hope that humanity can have some sort of unity soon.

 

[loverofhumanity]

All of those are forms of idolatry--worshiping the individual instead of the Truth. All individuals have flaws, and they are magnified by the flaws or evil of those who hold them up as gods of demigods. Truth can some from anywhere--out of the mouths of babes, or the Devil himself.

Maybe over time they have departed from the original message but the original message of all the great Prophets was very similar in many ways.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Let's hope that humanity can have some sort of unity soon.

You're going around my concern. Can you find unity without or not based on Bahuallah's teachings?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There's a very interesting prophecy about America and what will happen if blacks continue to be mistreated.

That's not a prophecy that people of Black decent will continue to be mistreated. It still exists. Prophecy is when you predict something will happen in the future. There isn't a prediction when it's already embedded into our culture. If anything, the prophecy would hopefully be that there would be no racism.

Again, who makes that prophecy?

 

[loverofhumanity]

You're going around my concern. Can you find unity without or not based on Bahuallah's teachings?

Baha'u'llah's Teachings centre around the equality of the human race. The elimination of racism and all forms of prejudice.

So you're saying that you want prejudice? And you think that we can have peace with prejudice of race, religion and nationality because that is all what Baha'u'llah teaches - the elimination of discrimination against color, creed and country.

It doesn't make sense to want peace and want to keep prejudice because it's prejudices which are the cause of wars.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Don't think you're getting it.

Baha'u'llah's Teachings centre around the equality of the human race. The elimination of racism and all forms of prejudice.

On what or who is this based on?

So you're saying that you want prejudice? And you think that we can have peace with prejudice of race, religion and nationality because that is all what Baha'u'llah teaches - the elimination of discrimination against color, creed and country.

Bahaullah isn't the peace of Christianity, Buddhism, and Hinduism. So, no, you have to disregard Bahaullah and come to an agreement on how everyone can have world peace from everyone's perspective not your own.

It doesn't make sense to want peace and want to keep prejudice because it's prejudices which are the cause of wars.

I don't know where the "keep the prejudice" I just getting you to answer my questions rather than go around the bush.

Then go on to say that Founders and founders B predicted the coming of Bahaullah and even go on to say that the founder Bahaullah writes near to nothing about these faiths just the goals he wants to establish between them.

The girl in between is a Bahai. She comes and sees to people shake hands and things "this is one accord." Then she introduces herself to these two people that were either finding an agreement to disagree or agreement with boundaries. Instead of asking, she says that founder A of the left person's religion (say John and the right Jane), John's religion, predicts the coming of the new founder Bahaullah. She says the same exact thing to Jane.

Both of them stop holding hands because they are confused. The girl/Bahai tries to shake their hands and they half-shake only to pull back to understand what you mean.

So you describe about Bahaullah's writings... peace, equality, non-violence.... John and Jane nod and agree with you "yeah," they say, "we need to need to end violence."

Jane and John ask each other, "how do we do this?"

We can establish a common agreement between us two where our boundaries are kept and our faiths respected.

Good idea!

The girl comes in and mentions Bahaullah again.

"Who is Bahaullah?"

The woman explains again.

In order to have peace, you have to disregard the teachings of your faith if you want to make world peace. Instead of finding simalarities and matching your simarlities with John and Jane

ask them about their differences

Don't just take it in as knowledge nor fit it in as if it is supposed to fit in one mold that Bahaullah created. Fit it into their mold. If you are not interested in learning from their perspective, don't shake hands.

Do as the christians did and say either they are wrong or just agree to disagree.

But the moment you put someone else's founder in your religion and dictate what that founder does that is not in that religion, you overstep the boundaries of "respecting religions."

You cannot shake hands with people who not only disagree with you but you have disrespected as well.

I don't know how else to explain it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My question again, @loverofhumanity ....

You're going around my concern. Can you find unity without or not based on Bahuallah's teachings?

Yes?
No?
Why?

 

[Vinayaka]

Many religions besides Bahai have a 'unity in diversity' theology rregarding mankind and peace. The problem with prophet based religions, as I see it anyway, is that without said 'prophet' the religion actually falls apart. There can be no Christianity without Christ, Islam without Muhammad, or Bahai without Bahalullah.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's not a prophecy that people of Black decent will continue to be mistreated. It still exists. Prophecy is when you predict something will happen in the future. There isn't a prediction when it's already embedded into our culture. If anything, the prophecy would hopefully be that there would be no racism.

Again, who makes that prophecy?

There is a prophecy about what will happen in America if the racial problem is not solved. I haven't posted it yet.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There would only be unity if it were not based on bahaullahs teachings.

This is the statement that I tried to address but I think you misunderstood my answer.

You said there would only be unity if it were not based on the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

The teachings of Baha'u'llah teach not to discriminate against any race, religion or nationality. So what you are effectively saying is there can only be unity if you ignore racial, religious and national discrimination which is an impossibility.

If we ignore the teachings of Baha'u'llah it's impossible to have peace because His teachings are against all forms of discrimination and prejudice.

Baha'u'llah teaches to love all humanity. You are saying to ignore loving all humanity, as it is a teaching of Baha'u'llah so how do you expect to have unity without these teachings?

You can't have unity by ignoring things like that so you are contradicting yourself by saying unity could only be established if it were not based on Baha'u'llah's teachings. That is the contradiction which you still haven't addressed.

 

[loverofhumanity]

My question again, @loverofhumanity ....



Yes?
No?
Why?

No. You can't have unity without the elimination of prejudice and discrimination which is the central teaching of Baha'u'llah.

You can have unity without referring directly to Baha'u'llah.

Multiculturalism is a form of unity in diversity that doesn't refer directly to Baha'u'llah but whether you openly acknowledge the teachings of Baha'u'llah or not you cannot have peace or unity without them as they are all about eliminating prejudice and without the elimination of prejudices we can't have peace or unity.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

We've got only one thing right. And as it turns out it's the one thing that matters the most. So although we are ignorant about the things that you say we are ignorant in, we haven't got it wrong as far as Baha'u'llah is concerned. He is the Promised One of all religions.

No he's not. According to him, maybe, but that just makes it yet another baseless claim.

You both don't know enough about Baha'u'llah to make the calls you're making.

Perhaps not, but they know enough about Hinduism to be able to tell you that you're misrepresenting and misinterpreting several aspects of it. It is interesting that you cry foul at people criticizing your holy man without knowing much about him, when Baha'i has really done the same thing to many different religions and cultures in this very thread alone.

What makes Baha'i so special, that it is above criticism and dismissal?

Multi-Cultural countries seem to manage quite well in having diversity and yet no conflict.

No. No they do not. It's interesting that you say this, and then go on to make ominous rumblings of a "prophecy" about America if it's race problem isn't solved. Almost as if a multi-cultural country is having conflict with it's diverse demographics.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Don't think you're getting it.



On what or who is this based on?



Bahaullah isn't the peace of Christianity, Buddhism, and Hinduism. So, no, you have to disregard Bahaullah and come to an agreement on how everyone can have world peace from everyone's perspective not your own.



I don't know where the "keep the prejudice" I just getting you to answer my questions rather than go around the bush.

Then go on to say that Founders and founders B predicted the coming of Bahaullah and even go on to say that the founder Bahaullah writes near to nothing about these faiths just the goals he wants to establish between them.

The girl in between is a Bahai. She comes and sees to people shake hands and things "this is one accord." Then she introduces herself to these two people that were either finding an agreement to disagree or agreement with boundaries. Instead of asking, she says that founder A of the left person's religion (say John and the right Jane), John's religion, predicts the coming of the new founder Bahaullah. She says the same exact thing to Jane.

Both of them stop holding hands because they are confused. The girl/Bahai tries to shake their hands and they half-shake only to pull back to understand what you mean.

So you describe about Bahaullah's writings... peace, equality, non-violence.... John and Jane nod and agree with you "yeah," they say, "we need to need to end violence."

Jane and John ask each other, "how do we do this?"

We can establish a common agreement between us two where our boundaries are kept and our faiths respected.

Good idea!

The girl comes in and mentions Bahaullah again.

"Who is Bahaullah?"

The woman explains again.

In order to have peace, you have to disregard the teachings of your faith if you want to make world peace. Instead of finding simalarities and matching your simarlities with John and Jane

ask them about their differences

Don't just take it in as knowledge nor fit it in as if it is supposed to fit in one mold that Bahaullah created. Fit it into their mold. If you are not interested in learning from their perspective, don't shake hands.

Do as the christians did and say either they are wrong or just agree to disagree.

But the moment you put someone else's founder in your religion and dictate what that founder does that is not in that religion, you overstep the boundaries of "respecting religions."

You cannot shake hands with people who not only disagree with you but you have disrespected as well.

I don't know how else to explain it.

It must be shocking receiving the news that Christ has returned not from their own leaders but from someone outside their own religion. Yet this is how it always has been.

“Leaders of religion, in every age, have hindered their people from attaining the shores of eternal salvation, inasmuch as they held the reins of authority in their mighty grasp. Some for the lust of leadership, others through want of knowledge and understanding, have been the cause of the deprivation of the people. By their sanction and authority, every Prophet of God hath drunk from the chalice of sacrifice, and winged His flight unto the heights of glory. What unspeakable cruelties they that have occupied the seats of authority and learning have inflicted upon the true Monarchs of the world,”

Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Kitáb-i-Íqán.”

Christians will very unlikely obtain the truth about Baha'u'llah from internal sources. We are doing them a great service announcing to them that their Promised One has come.

I'm very glad the Bahá'í who told me about Baha'u'llah didn't refrain from doing so because it's the greatest gift I have received in my life. You only call it disrespect because you don't know its value.

You won't get true information about Baha'u'llah from Christians or previous religions because their leaders keep them from the truth.

Would ye ask the Jews whether Jesus was the True One from God, or the idols if Muhammad was an Apostle of His Lord, or inquire from the people of the Qur’án as to Him Who was the Remembrance of God, the Most Exalted, the Most Great? -Baha'u'llah

 

[loverofhumanity]

No he's not. According to him, maybe, but that just makes it yet another baseless claim.


Perhaps not, but they know enough about Hinduism to be able to tell you that you're misrepresenting and misinterpreting several aspects of it. It is interesting that you cry foul at people criticizing your holy man without knowing much about him, when Baha'i has really done the same thing to many different religions and cultures in this very thread alone.

What makes Baha'i so special, that it is above criticism and dismissal?


No. No they do not. It's interesting that you say this, and then go on to make ominous rumblings of a "prophecy" about America if it's race problem isn't solved. Almost as if a multi-cultural country is having conflict with it's diverse demographics.

We believe that there's enough proof right across the board in every religions prophecies to prove Baha'u'llah's claims to be the Promised One but feel free to disagree. That's just our own opinion and belief. You're entitled to yours.

I don't understand what you mean by special. We aren't special at all. We are not above dismissal or criticism. Please feel most welcome to dismiss and criticize as much as you like. We welcome being scrutinized and interrogated because if we are liars or deceivers then the greatest service you could render is to expose us as false.


Multiculturalism is not the Baha'i World Order. It is what it is with some ideas borrowed from everywhere. It is based on a materialistic consumerism with some humanistic ideals thrown in not a spiritual foundation of love and unity which is what our system is based upon so there will be problems.

The prophecy exposes the problems that can arise in a multi cultural, democratic system which is not based upon a spiritual foundation of love and unity.

Have you read it? I haven't posted it yet. It speaks of racism destroying America from within.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

We believe that there's enough proof right across the board in every religions prophecies to prove Baha'u'llah's claims to be the Promised One but feel free to disagree.

I do. Vehemently. Because not all religions have "Promised Ones" that are foretold to come in prophecy. This is not a matter of opinion or belief but of fact, and the fact is that outside the "Boy's Club" that you recognize, the Baha'u'llah and all self-proclaimed prophets before him are no one but ordinary men with tall claims.

We aren't special at all. We are not above dismissal or criticism.

And yet just in this thread, you told another user that they didn't know enough about Baha'i to criticize it. Despite Baha'is criticizing and dismissing - actively or not - religions that they know nothing about. So evidently you, at least, are not welcome to scrutiny, nor has 55 pages of correction for factually and demonstrably false ideas and interpretations been able to change your mind; not that what is argued against is flawless, but fact and correction are met with "what if you're the one who's wrong?" Which is absolutely useless for progressive discussion. We could play "what if's" until Ragnarök comes and comes again.

Multiculturalism is not the Baha'i World Order.

From so far as can be told, there is not and will not be a "Baha'i World Oder" - for that very reason. Also as this is not the case, why even bother to mention that multicultural countries handle diversity well?

Have you read it?

Frankly, I don't care to read it, but I'm sure either you or adrian will post it sooner or later. And I'm willing to bet that it's going to be so vague as to mean quite literally anything.

 

[CG Didymus]

I haven't studied the papal doctrine of infallibility, but interestingly this doctrine arose around the time Baha'u'llah sent a tablet to Pope Pius IX declaring to be the Promised One.

Papal infallibility - Wikipedia

Baha’u’llah Warns Germany, Russia--and the Pope

The Universal House of Justice was established in 1963 by the Hands of the Cause of God. Its been excellent.

The main difference is that the infallibility of the authority and guarantee of God's guidance for the Universal House of Justice can be directly linked to the writings of Baha'u'llah, whereas the Popes authority does not come from Christ. Another difference is that for the Baha'is the authority is invested in an institution rather than an individual, and no individual member of the Universal House of Justice has anymore authority than anyone else.

Well then how different are the Baha'i laws as compared to the Islamic laws that are from the Quran itself? Or, the Mosaic laws that are from their Scriptures. They had the Levitical priesthood that was ordained by their God? Why didn't these "laws" from God fix things? And since people can and do corrupt how a religion is believed and practiced why, over time, especially if they get into a position of power on a worldwide scale, wouldn't the Baha'i Faith fall into those same problems?

 

[CG Didymus]

Rebirth (Buddhism) - Wikipedia

Here's a quote from the link you provided:

"The rebirth doctrine in Buddhism, sometimes referred to as reincarnation or metempsychosis, asserts that rebirth does not necessarily take place as another human being, but as an existence in one of the six Gati (realms) called Bhavachakra.[4] The six realms of rebirth include Deva (heavenly), Asura (demigod), Manusya (human), Tiryak (animals), Preta (ghosts), and Naraka (resident of hell)."

So what do you make of these beliefs? I personally think reincarnation is much more fair than other afterlife beliefs. It would give a soul a chance to literally "walk" in another person's shoes when reborn into a different body on the human level. Other than Baha'i Faith saying it's not true, what wrong with that?