Homosexuality & Religion

[MW0082]

Wannabe Yogi,
You're absolutely right about this. That's why I try to avoid a relationship unless I can find a like minded individual. Of course, it's very difficult to find a companion who feels the same way.

It's a little baffling that on a "religious forums" website, some people still do not understand the idea of celibacy for spirituality. I would love to seek companionship from a woman who understands why I do the things I do, but its not easy to find. Thus, I avoid it all together.

As for homosexuality, OP brought up the correlation between God and homosexuality, and as expected, I was belittled for my views towards it, and eventually attacked for my own sexuality. How sad!

Actually they are coming to find that celibicy can be very unhealthy to us mentally and physically. So I don't see how celibicy can help anyone

 

[PVE1]

Someone attacked you for your sexuality? Who? Why?
You mean they said they think your sex life is immoral? Wow, that would be really mean. Who would do that?
Oh, yeah...you would.

Find me one person that I singled out and said there way of life is wrong. I'm not to judge anyone, God does the judging. The topic was how does God feel about homosexuality, and I answered on how I ASSUME God feels. I could have very well been wrong. I didn't write the books. I didn't send the prophets. I'm just putting out what they say.

I may have said some things that sounded worse than their intention. I'm not a bad person and I'm not on here to purposely offend people. I was just on here to view how I feel God views homosexuality.

And you attacked me, saying you feel bad for anyone who chose to be with me, while I never attacked you.

 

[Autodidact]

Find me one person that I singled out and said there way of life is wrong.

I don't think it's right to try to claim that homosexuality is as morally right as heterosexuality. It's just simply not true.

I'm not to judge anyone, God does the judging. The topic was how does God feel about homosexuality, and I answered on how I ASSUME God feels. I could have very well been wrong. I didn't write the books. I didn't send the prophets. I'm just putting out what they say.

Sounds good. Never hurts to include the "I believe" or "I feel."

I may have said some things that sounded worse than their intention. I'm not a bad person and I'm not on here to purposely offend people. I was just on here to view how I feel God views homosexuality.

You might want to reconsider those views.

And you attacked me, saying you feel bad for anyone who chose to be with me, while I never attacked you.

I feel very sorry for anyone who has to live without love. For me it would hardly be worth living.

 

[PVE1]

Sounds good. Never hurts to include the "I believe" or "I feel."

You might want to reconsider those views.

I feel very sorry for anyone who has to live without love. For me it would hardly be worth living.

Again, I didn't single you out. I didn't call you by name. I was speaking in general terms on how God may view things.

Since when does sex mean love? Tell that to Mohandas Gandhi!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Again, I didn't single you out. I didn't call you by name. I was speaking in general terms on how God may view things.

Since when does sex mean love? Tell that to Mohandas Gandhi!

It's not that we're saying that sex means love; it's that you're saying, effectively, that there can be no love in non-procreative sex.

 

[Meow Mix]

[mod hat off]

*steals mod hat*

Mwahahaha! The power... *becomes absolutely corrupted, bans people left and right and establishes nonsensical taboo rules for the whole forum*

Edit: Realized this made it sound like I think this is what mods on this forum do, just clarifying that I was being silly

 

[Pegg]

No, it really does say that God did it. It's in verse 24 and verse 26: it says "God gave them over..." Does God do things he doesn't intend to do?

'giving them over' to such things does not mean 'making them into' such things ... it means turning his back on such things

its like throwing your hands up and walking away when someone refuses to listen to you.

 

[Meow Mix]

'giving them over' to such things does not mean 'making them into' such things ... it means turning his back on such things

its like throwing your hands up and walking away when someone refuses to listen to you.

Here are a bunch of translations:

New International Version (©1984)
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
New Living Translation (©2007)
That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.
English Standard Version (©2001)
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
International Standard Version (©2008)
For this reason, God delivered them to degrading passions as their females exchanged their natural sexual function for one that is unnatural.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
For this reason God allowed their shameful passions to control them. Their women have exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
King James Bible
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
American King James Version
For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
American Standard Version
For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:
Bible in Basic English
For this reason God gave them up to evil passions, and their women were changing the natural use into one which is unnatural:
Douay-Rheims Bible
For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.
Darby Bible Translation
For this reason God gave them up to vile lusts; for both their females changed the natural use into that contrary to nature;
English Revised Version
For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:
Webster's Bible Translation
For this cause God gave them up to vile affections. For even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Weymouth New Testament
This then is the reason why God gave them up to vile passions. For not only did the women among them exchange the natural use of their bodies for one which is contrary to nature, but the men also, World English Bible
For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For their women changed the natural function into that which is against nature. Young's Literal Translation
Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature;

(Source: Romans 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.)

Looks like we'll need a scholar to resolve this. Seems like people are translating it both ways... it seems to me that they've been translating it as "giving up on them" to avoid the harsh prospect of God CAUSING it. But "gave them over to X" certainly does look like it means causing.

Any scholars reading this thread that want to help with the original Hebrew or Greek or whatever?

As far as I saw there were indeed two translations that indicated God passively ALLOWING something, but all the rest hint strongly at God CAUSING something.

 

[Autodidact]

Again, I didn't single you out. I didn't call you by name. I was speaking in general terms on how God may view things.

But the things you were referring to include my central, passionate, loving primary relationship. You can understand people might get a bit touchy about that.

Since when does sex mean love? Tell that to Mohandas Gandhi!

No, sex doesn't mean love, unless you're doing it right.

 

[Pegg]

You know no such thing. What does Jesus have to say about the sin of Sodom?

“It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day than for you.’ Matt. 11:22, 24.

Its quite encouraging really. God will give those people of Sodom another chance to change and accept his standards (just another proof that God does not 'hate' homosexuals). But I can tell you know that when he resurrects them, he will still require the same that he required of them in ancient times...once again, the choice will be theirs.

If life is important to any of us, then we will conform to Gods standards and laws because doing so means 'life'.

When Jesus was asked the question “Teacher, by doing what shall I inherit everlasting life?” his reply was "by loving your God...and your neighbor as yourself"
To love God means that "we observe his commandments"

It's extremely ambiguous. btw, where are you on eating seafood and wearing clothing of mixed fibers?

I dont follow the mosaic law code. Those restrictions were put in for ceremonial reasons.

Although, I must say the dietary restrictions had health benefits to the israelites. Many of the animals restricted are located at the top of the food chain, these animals concentrate large quantities of toxins because of the types of food they eat. Certain forbidden meats harbored encysted parasites such as those causing trichinosis.
Seafood such as crustations, shellfish...'those without a backbone' are known to filter the water and so its quite a good idea to avoid those sorts of seafoods...or at very least eat them sparingly.

 

[Autodidact]

'giving them over' to such things does not mean 'making them into' such things ... it means turning his back on such things

its like throwing your hands up and walking away when someone refuses to listen to you.

So says you, but I think we'd really have to go back to the original Greek to get a better idea of what Paul was driving at with this story.

In any case, God knows very well how to prohibit things, and this is not one of the things he chose to prohibit.

 

[Meow Mix]

Hello, my name is God.

I'm going to create you with free will.

You -- yes, you there! I'm going to create you to love people with blue eyes.

But I don't like it when people love people with blue eyes. So I better never catch you doing it. I expect you to go through life without knowing romantic love with anyone. Tough luck.

I'll allow you to burn forever if I see you doing it. But I love you.

 

[Wotan]

Indeed you have free will to do whatever you like. As long as it is what I say you should do. Do what your freewill says you should do and I'll burn your disobedient sorry a* forever and enjoy doing it.

Now go exercise your free will.

 

[Autodidact]

“It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day than for you.’ Matt. 11:22, 24.

What did Jesus say about what the sin of Sodom was?

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

You may find this interesting.

...

When Jesus was asked the question “Teacher, by doing what shall I inherit everlasting life?” his reply was "by loving your God...and your neighbor as yourself"

Yup. Nothing in there about what kind of sex you have.

To love God means that "we observe his commandments"

So says Pegg. In any case, there is no commandment about lesbianism. None. Zip. Nada. Zero. Bupkus.

I dont follow the mosaic law code. Those restrictions were put in for ceremonial reasons.

Then why are you quoting them? Either follow them, or don't. Anything else is pure hypocrisy, and you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, would you?

 

[linwood]

I dont follow the mosaic law code. Those restrictions were put in for ceremonial reasons.

Where do you get this idea and how do you support it?

It isn`t Biblical at all.

It`s false, it isn`t in the word of God.

Jesus himself "directly" stated the opposite of the ideology you say you follow.

Matt. 5:17-20
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Why do you disregard the words of the Christ?

 

[Pegg]

If I was married for 40 years, God probably wouldn't care if I performed oral sex on my spouse. However, I care. All the righteous prophets He has sent were abstinent (John the Baptist, Jesus, Siddhartha). I fail myself if I give in to desire and fail to deny myself. That's what worshipers of God do, it'll never make sense to an atheist of course. But it makes sense to me, and all the righteous and the monks who have lived.

i have to say that abstinence has nothing to do with righteousness

The man Abraham was not abstinent and yet he was called righteous by God...God made a friend of him because of his righteousness.

Abstinence has nothing whatsoever to do with righteousness.

 

[Smoke]

As for homosexuality, OP brought up the correlation between God and homosexuality, and as expected, I was belittled for my views towards it, and eventually attacked for my own sexuality. How sad!

You guys just slay me. "Homosexuality is morally wrong, unnatural, dangerous, selfish, and lustful. But I think it's really mean for people to criticize my sexuality."

 

[linwood]

You guys just slay me. "Homosexuality is morally wrong, unnatural, dangerous, selfish, and lustful. But I think it's really mean for people to criticize my sexuality."

The really entertaining part is that they seem truly clueless to their blatant hypocrisy.

 

[Pegg]

So says you, but I think we'd really have to go back to the original Greek to get a better idea of what Paul was driving at with this story.

In any case, God knows very well how to prohibit things, and this is not one of the things he chose to prohibit.

God prohibits murder, but he does not prevent people from murdering others.

God allows us to make our choices and he does not interfere with them. This is why Paul says he 'gave them over'...because God does not program us in any way, he would never intervene thus causing us to loose our free will.

 

[Wotan]

God prohibits murder, but he does not prevent people from murdering others.

God allows us to make our choices and he does not interfere with them. This is why Paul says he 'gave them over'...because God does not program us in any way, he would never intervene thus causing us to loose our free will.

Yeah right!

He puts a gun to your head and says, "Do it my way or burn forever" Some "free will!" An offer you can't refuse in the best Godfather tradition. Just what you would expect from a petty tyrant.