Oh, yeah...and about suicide, all of the time (taken from polls) suicide occurs because people are depressed. Why are they depressed? One reason normally, they feel alone in the world, like nobody cares about them. Why is that? Either people just don't feel comfortable around them, and they can't make friends, or, more often than any other thing, they shared their bodies with their LUSTFUL boyfriend, and after he got what he wanted, he left her high (many times literally) and dry. She feels so incredibly depressed, that nobody can love her. So she chooses to end it all. That is most often how the senario goes, according to poles. It has more than jack to do with lust.
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Homosexuality doesn't exist
- Thread starter Stained_Class
- Start date
Bastet
Vile Stove-Toucher
trueblood and Lil'Christ ~
This thread is to debate whether or not homosexuality even exists, not whether your religious book of choice condemns or affirms it. Maybe you might want to go back and re-read the original post.
As for suicide (yes, this is off topic but I feel the need to address it), I have this to ask you: have you ever actually been depressed yourself (and I mean seriously depressed, enough to actually contemplate suicide)?? Clinical depression is a medical condition, and yes, while it can be triggered by the highs and lows of life, and exacerbated by low self-esteem and self-worth, depression is a chemical imbalance in the body. Anyone can be a bit (or a lot) depressed after being dumped by their boy/girlfriend. Being dumped is a dent to the ego, challenges the belief of self, lowers self-esteem. But taking that kind of depression and saying that lust is the major cause of suicide is a load of crap.
I knew a girl who was in a steady relationship with her boyfriend, had just gotten a new (and better) job, every indication was that her life was looking up. She hung herself...her father found her hanging from the rafters in her bedroom. In her suicide note she said that she didn't want to end up like her mother...not that there'd been any indication that that was going to happen. Her mother drank herself to death within a couple of years of her daughter's suicide.
The boss of a friend's father was the owner of a very successful business, didn't appear to have a worry in the world. He locked himself in his car, closed the garage door, joined a hose from the exhaust pipe and put it thru the window, turned the ignition on, and gassed himself. It's not a pretty way to go. You lose control of all your bodily functions as the carbon monoxide goes through your system. My friend's father found him when he went to see why he didn't show up at work. There was no apparent reason for his suicide...he certainly hadn't just been dumped by his wife.
A workmate of this same friend of mine also gassed herself in her car. That was caused by post-natal depression. Nothing to do with lust.
I, myself, suffered from about 7 years of depression. It started in high school, and had nothing to do with lust. I seriously contemplated suicide, thought about all the ways I could do it. I even walked in front of moving cars to see if I had the nerve to do it...thankfully, they all stopped in time. The reason I never killed myself, is that I knew someone would have to find me...and they'd have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Suicide, whether or not it's caused by depression, is a selfish act. That you can say with certainty. As for lust...I find it extremely hard to believe that these four cases of depression are the exception to the rule in that regard.
This thread is to debate whether or not homosexuality even exists, not whether your religious book of choice condemns or affirms it. Maybe you might want to go back and re-read the original post.
As for suicide (yes, this is off topic but I feel the need to address it), I have this to ask you: have you ever actually been depressed yourself (and I mean seriously depressed, enough to actually contemplate suicide)?? Clinical depression is a medical condition, and yes, while it can be triggered by the highs and lows of life, and exacerbated by low self-esteem and self-worth, depression is a chemical imbalance in the body. Anyone can be a bit (or a lot) depressed after being dumped by their boy/girlfriend. Being dumped is a dent to the ego, challenges the belief of self, lowers self-esteem. But taking that kind of depression and saying that lust is the major cause of suicide is a load of crap.
I knew a girl who was in a steady relationship with her boyfriend, had just gotten a new (and better) job, every indication was that her life was looking up. She hung herself...her father found her hanging from the rafters in her bedroom. In her suicide note she said that she didn't want to end up like her mother...not that there'd been any indication that that was going to happen. Her mother drank herself to death within a couple of years of her daughter's suicide.
The boss of a friend's father was the owner of a very successful business, didn't appear to have a worry in the world. He locked himself in his car, closed the garage door, joined a hose from the exhaust pipe and put it thru the window, turned the ignition on, and gassed himself. It's not a pretty way to go. You lose control of all your bodily functions as the carbon monoxide goes through your system. My friend's father found him when he went to see why he didn't show up at work. There was no apparent reason for his suicide...he certainly hadn't just been dumped by his wife.
A workmate of this same friend of mine also gassed herself in her car. That was caused by post-natal depression. Nothing to do with lust.
I, myself, suffered from about 7 years of depression. It started in high school, and had nothing to do with lust. I seriously contemplated suicide, thought about all the ways I could do it. I even walked in front of moving cars to see if I had the nerve to do it...thankfully, they all stopped in time. The reason I never killed myself, is that I knew someone would have to find me...and they'd have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Suicide, whether or not it's caused by depression, is a selfish act. That you can say with certainty. As for lust...I find it extremely hard to believe that these four cases of depression are the exception to the rule in that regard.
Fine, have it your way, lol. To the question of the existence of homosexuality, which to me seems incredible, how can you say it doesn't? Homosexual is a label, sure, but it's also saying that a person is involved in homosexuality. Just like you would call someone that paints a beautiful picture, or tries to, an artist. Homosexuality is the action of having sex with someone of the same sex. No matter what you say, that still happens and exists. None of them care if you say it doesn't. It does and they know it all too well. Homosexual is of or characterized by sexual desire for those of the same sex as oneself---a homosexual individual. No matter how hard you try, you can't really argue with that. From what I've read of stuff in here, you're arguing about when the word, the label came about. Who cares? The question was the existence of homosexuality. From what I gather, it undoubtably exists, no matter what anyone thinks.
As for suicide, I was quoting polls. I'm sure those four cases are four of many exceptions. Those polls were taken from the closest relations to suicidals. Of course, I'm sure they haven't covered the entire world and inquired, but that was what they had gathered, so I'll back off there and let you argue with whoever took the polls.
As for suicide, I was quoting polls. I'm sure those four cases are four of many exceptions. Those polls were taken from the closest relations to suicidals. Of course, I'm sure they haven't covered the entire world and inquired, but that was what they had gathered, so I'll back off there and let you argue with whoever took the polls.
Bastet
Vile Stove-Toucher
Hey, I'm in agreement with you over the existence of homosexuality...I can hardy argue it doesn't exist, now can I? :lol: I don't see the point in arguing over the label either. It's been around forever, no matter what it was or wasn't called before.
As for your suicide 'polls' (which you have provided no references for, btw), unless you are polling the actual people who committed suicide, you can never know the exact reasons for their doing it. It's more complex than "my boyfriend dumped me", no matter what relatives and close friends may think or say. Even when people do leave a note, it doesn't generally explain it fully, because when you're in that depth of depression, it's not an easy thing to explain to others. So many parents/friends/whatever, say "I should have seen the signs...", but it's not often possible, because, 'polls' or not, depression and suicide are so much more complex than most people realise. It leaves the family and friends of those who commit suicide so bewildered that they grasp for the easiest and most obvious reason they can, whether or not it's actually the case. That's all I'm trying to say...
As for your suicide 'polls' (which you have provided no references for, btw), unless you are polling the actual people who committed suicide, you can never know the exact reasons for their doing it. It's more complex than "my boyfriend dumped me", no matter what relatives and close friends may think or say. Even when people do leave a note, it doesn't generally explain it fully, because when you're in that depth of depression, it's not an easy thing to explain to others. So many parents/friends/whatever, say "I should have seen the signs...", but it's not often possible, because, 'polls' or not, depression and suicide are so much more complex than most people realise. It leaves the family and friends of those who commit suicide so bewildered that they grasp for the easiest and most obvious reason they can, whether or not it's actually the case. That's all I'm trying to say...
true blood
Active Member
I fail to see how I'm off topic. Wasn't my post affirming homosexuality?
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
perhaps a better question would be...
why are some people so obsessed with other people having sex?
kinda' creepy 'aint it?
wa:-do
why are some people so obsessed with other people having sex?
kinda' creepy 'aint it?
wa:-do
true blood
Active Member
Sexual disease for starters
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
actually.. more STD's are spread through Heterosexual conduct than anything...
should we just get rid of sex completly and just use artificial insemination?
wa:-do
should we just get rid of sex completly and just use artificial insemination?
wa:-do
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Ok, back on topic:
Homosexuality is a valid label of identity for a group of people that deserves recognition and rights. Yes or No? Why or why not?
Homosexuality is a valid label of identity for a group of people that deserves recognition and rights. Yes or No? Why or why not?
Nga_Believe
Member
1) We've all agreed that "homosexuality" is a term, a label. The label itself as well as the purpose for which that label has been assigned is irrelevant to whether or not homosexuality actually exsists.
2) Points to Maize for defining homosexuality beyond behavior. A dear friend of mine has never has sex yet he still is gay because he doesn't find women attractive, but even further, he feels strong emotion towards other men. I guess you can call this love.
"Homosexual" as a word technically defines one who has sexual intercourse with one of the same gender, but the true nature of our beings cannot be bound by words. Words are fabricated by men who are imperfect, and in turn, they create words and terms that are also imperfect.
Gay people are born with a natural attraction to the same gender, physically, emotionally, spiritually, whatever. Therefore, homosexuality exists beyond words, terms, and labels. Men love men and women love women. "Homosexual" happens to be the only way that we can define it. Therefore, homosexuals deserve every right that a hetero has, both as an individual person and in unison with another person.
2) Points to Maize for defining homosexuality beyond behavior. A dear friend of mine has never has sex yet he still is gay because he doesn't find women attractive, but even further, he feels strong emotion towards other men. I guess you can call this love.
"Homosexual" as a word technically defines one who has sexual intercourse with one of the same gender, but the true nature of our beings cannot be bound by words. Words are fabricated by men who are imperfect, and in turn, they create words and terms that are also imperfect.
Gay people are born with a natural attraction to the same gender, physically, emotionally, spiritually, whatever. Therefore, homosexuality exists beyond words, terms, and labels. Men love men and women love women. "Homosexual" happens to be the only way that we can define it. Therefore, homosexuals deserve every right that a hetero has, both as an individual person and in unison with another person.
Paraprakrti
Custom User
lust is lust under any circumstance devoid of placing the natural consequences as the primary objective.
A man and a woman, a woman and a woman, a man and a man, a man and a zebra, etc, etc... In any of these cases where sex is used primarily for the pleasure, it is lust.
What separates homosexuality (as well as bestiality) from heterosexuality is that there is a chance of the natural consequences to manifest within the heterosexual couple's sexual activity (be it that it is not some form of sodomy). Though, there is no such chance within the homosexual's lifestyle. Therefore, homosex can be nothing more than lustful.
What this thread addresses concerning the origin of the word "homosexual" has no bearing to the act itself. You are either engaging your genitals according to nature's obvious intent, or you are not.
A man and a woman, a woman and a woman, a man and a man, a man and a zebra, etc, etc... In any of these cases where sex is used primarily for the pleasure, it is lust.
What separates homosexuality (as well as bestiality) from heterosexuality is that there is a chance of the natural consequences to manifest within the heterosexual couple's sexual activity (be it that it is not some form of sodomy). Though, there is no such chance within the homosexual's lifestyle. Therefore, homosex can be nothing more than lustful.
What this thread addresses concerning the origin of the word "homosexual" has no bearing to the act itself. You are either engaging your genitals according to nature's obvious intent, or you are not.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Paraprakrti-
by your definition then eaven male-female sex is simply lust with the risk of pregnancy for the woman...
If sex was mearly for procreation then it wouldn't be so pleasurable, we like many other animals would simply go 'into heat' and be compeled by hormones to have sex. While hormones have a big role to play in human sexuality most people admitidly have sex because if feels good.
If sex were just for procreation, may I add, then women wouldn't have a clitoris, the only organ in either sex devoted solely to providing pleasure.
arty:
wa:do
by your definition then eaven male-female sex is simply lust with the risk of pregnancy for the woman...
If sex was mearly for procreation then it wouldn't be so pleasurable, we like many other animals would simply go 'into heat' and be compeled by hormones to have sex. While hormones have a big role to play in human sexuality most people admitidly have sex because if feels good.
If sex were just for procreation, may I add, then women wouldn't have a clitoris, the only organ in either sex devoted solely to providing pleasure.
arty: wa:do
Paraprakrti
Custom User
painted wolf said:Paraprakrti-
by your definition then eaven male-female sex is simply lust with the risk of pregnancy for the woman...
If sex was mearly for procreation then it wouldn't be so pleasurable, we like many other animals would simply go 'into heat' and be compeled by hormones to have sex. While hormones have a big role to play in human sexuality most people admitidly have sex because if feels good.
If sex were just for procreation, may I add, then women wouldn't have a clitoris, the only organ in either sex devoted solely to providing pleasure.
wa:do
Yes, sex with the primary intent on the sense gratification is lust, no matter who is involved. Like I stated, it could be a man and a woman, a woman and a woman, man and man, man and animal, woman and animal, masturbation, etc.
The fact that sex feels good is fine, but if a human seeks sex merely for that purpose then he/she is no better than any animal. This does not mean that sex shouldn't feel good, but that the intent should be for reproduction.
So sex isn't merely for procreation, but it should be done when you intend on procreating.
From a transcendental perspective, the more attached one is to material sense-gratification, the more suffering will follow.
The first thing to understand is that all things belong to God. Therefore, the act of sexual intercourse should be done with intent on the natural result ordained by God, begetting and properly raising a child(ren).
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
well then why not just use artificial means of conception?
If the point is to reduce self-gratification and simply procreate then this would be the best option.
no messy fun involved, no pleaure and no need to change the sheets.
You get to do what god wants without risk increasing your potental future suffering.
'cource that doesn't explain why god gave the human female a clitoris now does it?
wa:do
If the point is to reduce self-gratification and simply procreate then this would be the best option.
no messy fun involved, no pleaure and no need to change the sheets.
You get to do what god wants without risk increasing your potental future suffering.
'cource that doesn't explain why god gave the human female a clitoris now does it?
wa:do
Paraprakrti
Custom User
painted wolf said:
It isn't about reducing sense-gratification. It is about having sex with the primary intent on it's natural consequence. If you are trying to abstain from as much sense-gratification as you can, then don't have sex and don't have children. It is pointless to go out of your way to unnecessarily seek artificial methods of conception.
painted wolf said:
God does not necessarily want us to have children. That is our decision. If you do not want to engage in sex life, then don't have children. If you do, then the most direct method is sexual intercourse. It is unnecessary to seek another method of conception.
You're thinking small. Look at the big picture. It's not just about why God gave women a clitoris, it is about why God made this world at all. If you understand that this world was manifest to satisfy our desires, then you will understand why women have a clitoris. The major flaw in your implications is that you are assuming that God makes these things for His personal gain, that He makes them for some big plan He's got for Himself. Also, you are failing to discern between the body and the soul. The soul is the entity, the body is just a covering.
Paraprakrti
Custom User
Bastet said:
That is fine.
Still, the transcendental fact is that we are not the body. We are spirit-soul. We have chosen to be enjoyers apart from God, the Supreme Enjoyer. Spiritual life means returning to God's association rather than seeking to be God ourselves. Most people are not ready for this.
Paraprakrti
Custom User
pah said:
Because, as I already stated, the material energy is manifest to please our desires. We desire to be enjoyers apart from God. But this position is an illusion because we are eternally related to God. People who are serious about spiritual life will not seek to simply satisfy the senses. God's intentions are for us to be happy, because it is our intentions to be happy. Unfortunately, we seem to be under the illusion that we can be most happy enjoying this material energy. But God knows that we will be most happy in His Personal association, and so He prescribes methods for returning to Him.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
ok, this is all well and good for some religions, but what about the rest of us?
Creator/'God' told my people to enjoy sex as a union between two people, or simply to have fun depending on the tribe/culture. Idealy you had sex with your husband/s, wife/ves but for many nations pre-marital sex wasn't a sin.
Spirituality is about a personal connection with creator not depriving the sences. You can be serious spiritually and still enjoy sex.
wa:do
Creator/'God' told my people to enjoy sex as a union between two people, or simply to have fun depending on the tribe/culture. Idealy you had sex with your husband/s, wife/ves but for many nations pre-marital sex wasn't a sin.
Spirituality is about a personal connection with creator not depriving the sences. You can be serious spiritually and still enjoy sex.
wa:do