Homosexuality and Evolution: God's Will and Human Belief

[SkepticThinker]

"PLEASE, JESUS! HELP ME HAVE WISDOM, HELP ME NOT TO ESCALATE THIS CONFLICT!!!" is not "following dictates from old books."

I personally don't think Jesus is there to help anybody do anything, so I would view it as a waste of time that would be better spend weighing out the actual consequences of the decision(s) they are about to make. Which is what I think they're actually doing anyway.

If someone has their hand on the nuclear button, I don't want them beseeching any god(s) for anything. Rather, I want them rationally weighing out the outcomes of their decisions. They could be praying to a war god, for all I know. There are plenty of people in the Old Testament who seem to have thought that God told them to dash babies' heads against rocks and other such terrible actions.

 

[sealchan]

God IS our witness. True.

A "drive-by" response?

 

[SkepticThinker]

May I respectfully point out that the NT writers are not so much anonymous as the MOST READ AUTHORS IN HUMAN HISTORY.

There are far more records available to us about the truth of Jesus Christ than there are of your birth, or my existence. Stop.

Doesn't make them any less anonymous.

 

[columbus]

There are far more records available to us about the truth of Jesus Christ than there are of your birth, or my existence. Stop.

This is simply false. There are lots of records of my birth and continued existence. For Jesus there is only a few implausible stories about momentous events, with a remarkable lack of corroboration from anybody outside his closest following.
Tom

 

[BilliardsBall]

Ironically, Donald "the Baby Christian" Trump is the least likely President in my adult life to do that.

And the last time I remember a president saying that he had prayed over a conflict decision it was Bush II in the lead up to the Invasion of Iraq.
Tom

The Trump quote has nothing to do with my point. Also, America lost 142 people in Desert Storm, some due to food poisoning or old age. The Iraqi forces arrayed against us lost 140,000, more surrendered.

I believe one should pray to the correct God where possible.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That doesn't change the fact that they were anonymous.
Frankly, I think that they are mainly popular because the NT is so vague people can justify almost anything with it.
But you'd be surprised to learn how few Christians have actually read a significant amount of it. Having a copy and talking about what someone says it means aren't the same.
Tom

I'VE read the entire Bible in multiple versions, multiple times, so please continue to focus on someone like me who knows where he is speaking from.

Right now, I'm claiming multiple witnesses as testifying to an earthquake as justifying it's likely the earthquake happened.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Doesn't make them any less anonymous.

I think you are confusing anonymous with humble, but the writers all gave clues as to their origin, leading to the NT nomenclature.

But of course, skeptics want glory, so they don't like people who write things like, "I am nothing, Jesus is everything."

 

[BilliardsBall]

I personally don't think Jesus is there to help anybody do anything, so I would view it as a waste of time that would be better spend weighing out the actual consequences of the decision(s) they are about to make. Which is what I think they're actually doing anyway.

If someone has their hand on the nuclear button, I don't want them beseeching any god(s) for anything. Rather, I want them rationally weighing out the outcomes of their decisions. They could be praying to a war god, for all I know. There are plenty of people in the Old Testament who seem to have thought that God told them to dash babies' heads against rocks and other such terrible actions.

Have you ever studied out the "dash their babies" Psalm? It is the cry from a wrenched heart at someone who has seen an invading army rape women and cut babies from their wombs... "Happy is he [not I] who dashes YOUR children..." it is a testament to the honesty of the emotion of the scriptures.

But, see! YOU are more noble, YOU would NEVER ask for any vengeance on your enemies, because of the pure light of secular humanism. YOU LOVE your enemies, like all "true" Christians do. I say this to you kindly and sincerely, give me a break!

 

[BilliardsBall]

You avoided answering the question and addressing the point. That's a cop out.

You must come from that other planet, the one where in debates both sides are forced to answer every red herring question the opponents share. (Not sarcasm.)

 

[columbus]

The Trump quote has nothing to do with my point. Also, America lost 142 people in Desert Storm, some due to food poisoning or old age. The Iraqi forces arrayed against us lost 140,000, more surrendered.

I believe one should pray to the correct God where possible.

Christian leaders are historically violent and rapacious. From the medieval Popes and kings to the genocide of the Americas to the Invasion of Iraq.
This is not just my opinion, this is easily available information. Especially the ones who are overtly christian, like Bush and Trump.
Tom

 

[columbus]

Right now, I'm claiming multiple witnesses as testifying to an earthquake as justifying it's likely the earthquake happened.

You really think that an earthquake that damaged the Temple, along with solar portents, happening on Passover Eve, failed to be noticed by the Jewish community and their Roman overlords? But a couple of NT writers claiming such things are credible?

Well, I don't. And the fact that Christians today insist on such extraordinary claims is compelling evidence that they don't know what they're talking about.
"Compelling evidence" is the normal term for proof. It's proof to me that Christianity is built on fiction.
Tom

 

[SkepticThinker]

I think you are confusing anonymous with humble, but the writers all gave clues as to their origin, leading to the NT nomenclature.

No, I mean anonymous.

But of course, skeptics want glory, so they don't like people who write things like, "I am nothing, Jesus is everything."

No idea what this is supposed to mean.

LOL @ "skeptics want glory" though.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Have you ever studied out the "dash their babies" Psalm? It is the cry from a wrenched heart at someone who has seen an invading army rape women and cut babies from their wombs... "Happy is he [not I] who dashes YOUR children..." it is a testament to the honesty of the emotion of the scriptures.

8 O daughter of Babylon, you the recompense with which you have repaid us.
9 How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock."

Sounds like some delightful vengeance to me. Sounds like it's saying those who dash babies heads against rocks are blessed.

But, see! YOU are more noble, YOU would NEVER ask for any vengeance on your enemies, because of the pure light of secular humanism. YOU LOVE your enemies, like all "true" Christians do. I say this to you kindly and sincerely, give me a break!

Please stop trying to tell me what who I am.

I don't ask deities for vengeance against my enemies (not that I have many enemies to begin with). I don't expect some deity to ask me to do his dirty work for him. And I don't think babies should have to pay for the wrongdoings their parents may have committed. Why would anyone want innocent babies to suffer for something someone else has done? Is that supposed to be moral?

You've avoided the point again.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You must come from that other planet, the one where in debates both sides are forced to answer every red herring question the opponents share. (Not sarcasm.)

You said something should occur that did not occur. You made a claim that is not backed up by evidence. Usually in a debate, a person should address such a thing rather than turning the inquiry into a snarky attempt at an insult.

 

[SkepticThinker]

May I respectfully point out that the NT writers are not so much anonymous as the MOST READ AUTHORS IN HUMAN HISTORY.

There are far more records available to us about the truth of Jesus Christ than there are of your birth, or my existence. Stop.

Nonsense. I have a birth certificate. My parents published a birth announcement in the newspaper, after I was born. I have a driver's licence and a health card, both with information and photo on them. There are hundreds of photos of me not just that I have myself, but that many other people also have. You could gather up all of my family members, friends, co-workers and acquaintances and ask them about me. I could provide all kinds of different documentation with my name and information all over them. I'm guessing we could find most, if not all of these things for you and most other people.

Sorry, but no. Stop.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You really think that an earthquake that damaged the Temple, along with solar portents, happening on Passover Eve, failed to be noticed by the Jewish community and their Roman overlords? But a couple of NT writers claiming such things are credible?

Well, I don't. And the fact that Christians today insist on such extraordinary claims is compelling evidence that they don't know what they're talking about.
"Compelling evidence" is the normal term for proof. It's proof to me that Christianity is built on fiction.
Tom

There are multiple authors who speak of this earthquake, you just don't like them.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This is simply false. There are lots of records of my birth and continued existence. For Jesus there is only a few implausible stories about momentous events, with a remarkable lack of corroboration from anybody outside his closest following.
Tom

There are lots of records of your birth? You have more than a certificate? Photos, perhaps?

There are multiple documents who testify of Christ's birth. But I'm not sure you exist. You could be a Poe.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Nonsense. I have a birth certificate. My parents published a birth announcement in the newspaper, after I was born. I have a driver's licence and a health card, both with information and photo on them. There are hundreds of photos of me not just that I have myself, but that many other people also have. You could gather up all of my family members, friends, co-workers and acquaintances and ask them about me. I could provide all kinds of different documentation with my name and information all over them. I'm guessing we could find most, if not all of these things for you and most other people.

Sorry, but no. Stop.

You have a birth certificate and a newspaper announcement. Jesus also had two announcements regarding His birth.

They didn't have photo records in the ancient world. There are only a few records extant of Homer, from Julius Caesar, of other people as notable to history as Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[BilliardsBall]

8 O daughter of Babylon, you the recompense with which you have repaid us.
9 How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock."

Sounds like some delightful vengeance to me. Sounds like it's saying those who dash babies heads against rocks are blessed.

Please stop trying to tell me what who I am.

I don't ask deities for vengeance against my enemies (not that I have many enemies to begin with). I don't expect some deity to ask me to do his dirty work for him. And I don't think babies should have to pay for the wrongdoings their parents may have committed. Why would anyone want innocent babies to suffer for something someone else has done? Is that supposed to be moral?

You've avoided the point again.

I don't like the way you quote the Bible without any explanation besides, "see, it's vengeance!" That's like no interpretation at all. You ducked that I wrote that THEY are not doing the dashing and are speaking of some far off future invasion of Babylon. These writers were Babylon's prisoners in chains!

 

[columbus]

There are multiple authors who speak of this earthquake, you just don't like them.

It isn't whether I like them. It's that the stories aren't credible and the authors are anonymous.

So you tell me. If events took place as described, why didn't any Jewish or Roman sources mention them?
If they did, why hasn't anyone found such a record in about 2000 years?

The reasonable answer to that question is that the Gospel authors made up the events, years afterwards, to convince a gullible audience who had no way to ascertain the truth.
Tom