Homo-sexuality.

[NoName]

I'm not homosexual, so I tend to think that homosexuality is a little, well, weird, but that's about it. Aside from that, I don't really care what they do. I think they're just trying desperately to lead a normal life without everybody always intruding in on their lives, and so the best thing I can do for them is leave them be. Plus, I don't really think it's appropriate to discuss sex with anybody.

 

[jiin_caltro]

~sigh~ Okay, I officially hate it when the site automatically signs you off.



I’d like to start by saying that I’m going to get eaten alive. I have foreseen it J



Now, I’d like to say that I have no homo-sexual (I’m just going to use HS from now on because typing homo-sexual over and over gets annoying) friends, as many others here are able to claim. It’s not because I’m a homophobe or anything, there just aren’t as many here and the few I know don’t have the qualities I look for in friends. This will undoubtedly aid in all efforts to eat me alive.



Okay, so I wanted to take a look at part of an earlier post real quick by Godfree1: “…how on Earth can heterosexual Christians detest, loathe and abhor homosexuality as much as they do without ever (apparently) having at least tried it?” To that I would give the same answer that I would give to people on different subjects, subjects such as smoking, drugs, drinking and even caffeine. Because God doesn’t like us “partaking” in such things.



So, in order for everything else to make sense, I’ll say that I’m LDS (Mormon) and we have “Strict Rules,” as some have said. Guidelines that tell us to abstain from all afore-mentioned activities. Why? The reason for everything aside from HS is simple: It’s bad for your health. So am I saying HS is bad for your health? No. And yet it’s still on that little list of things where God says, “No.”



For one thing, there’s biologically no point. If you have HS intercourse, you get a “good feeling,” much like mono-sexual “good feeling” making. But it takes away from the true meaning. If a man and woman (Married, of course) have intercourse, there’s purpose: new life is created, life that brings the children of God into this world. I personally believe that any other type of intercourse or bringing of “good feelings” is a mockery to God’s plan.



To take from the Bible (Which I believe to be the word of God, along with the Book of Mormon, the Quran, and several other religious texts) a few places where we get the idea that HS is “bad,” the first thing that comes to mind is Adam and Eve. Man and Woman. Later, we read, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” (Gen. 2:24) From these we’re beginning to form the opinion that God created man and woman to join together (Marriage), much like the positive and negative side of a magnet.



I suppose that’s all I’ll post for now, until I get some responses and get eaten alive. Still, I’d like to close with this: I don’t think HS’s are evil. Well, not because of HS. We can’t really call it a sin unless the people know that it’s wrong, since sin is knowing good and evil and choosing to do evil. HS’s can be good and bad, like everyone else. But if you read things like what I’ve written and brush it off because you don’t want to hear it, then the sin is ignorance and/or pride.

 

[Jaymes]

For one thing, there’s biologically no point.

Biologically, there's no point in art.

Biologically, there's no point in doing anything but having sex with every member of the opposite sex you come across to spread your genes.

Biologically, there's no reason we shouldn't kill off every person we percieve as a threat to our ability to constantly reproduce and pass on our genes.

I'm very glad we don't live solely for biology.

I personally believe that any other type of intercourse or bringing of “good feelings” is a mockery to God’s plan.

I'm very sorry you feel love is a mockery of God's plan.

I don't think you've said anything worthy of getting "eaten alive" for. You've stated your opinion, and had the courtesy to not call myself and others evil, sick sinners who are disgusting abominations against nature as some insist on doing.

 

[jiin_caltro]

Thank you as well, Jensa, for not eating me alive, as you undoubtedly could have.

I, too, have to say I'm glad we don't live solely by biology. But you took one sentence by itself and ranted on it. My point was (Not very well put down, I apologize) that man and wife relations have a physical point: offspring. As you so eloquently pointed out, though, if that were true, then we should all be spreading our seed across the known world. Which is why God presented a little idea called "Marriage," and condemned fornication.

And besides, we all know there's no point in art

As for what you had to say about love. This, the comparison I'm about to draw, IS going to get me eaten alive, I'm sure. But if you loved an animal, and you were sure it loved you too, would that make it alright to have "relations" with it?

What I'm really trying to do is point out the line where biological common sense meets (certain) religion. For example, the reason you don't go around killing people to maintain your superiority is because there's a commandment, "Thou shalt not kill," as well as the social belief that murder is wrong.

Well, I think I'm ready for another round

 

[Green Gaia]

But if you read things like what I’ve written and brush it off because you don’t want to hear it, then the sin is ignorance and/or pride.

Or maybe we just don't agree with you and what your religion has to say about this issue.

 

[jiin_caltro]

Well, Maize, that's exactly what I said

If you don't believe it's wrong, whether it's because you don't believe me or my religion or whatever, then chances are you're not doing anything wrong. But if that doubt creeps into your mind and you reject out of, like I said, ignorance or pride, then...You're screwed

 

[Green Gaia]

As for what you had to say about love. This, the comparison I'm about to draw, IS going to get me eaten alive, I'm sure. But if you loved an animal, and you were sure it loved you too, would that make it alright to have "relations" with it?

Oh goodie.. I hadn't heard the comparsion to bestiality in the last 5 minutes.

You're missing a key concept when comparing homosexuality to bestiality - CONSENT.

Animals cannot give consent to have sexual intercourse with a human, nor can they consent to sign a marriage license.

So, homosexuality cannot be fairly compared to bestiality and same sex marriage will not lead to people marrying their pets.

We all clear on that now?

 

[Green Gaia]

Well, Maize, that's exactly what I said

If you don't believe it's wrong, whether it's because you don't believe me or my religion or whatever, then chances are you're not doing anything wrong. But if that doubt creeps into your mind and you reject out of, like I said, ignorance or pride, then...You're screwed

Of this one thing, I have no doubts - I guess I'm good.

 

[Jaymes]

But you took one sentence by itself and ranted on it.

That was the only one I had to comment on, since all the other religious points that have been made have already been commented on I don't agree with it, you do, and I don't see us sitting here and going "Nu-uh" "Yes-huh" at each other changing anything.

As for what you had to say about love. This, the comparison I'm about to draw, IS going to get me eaten alive, I'm sure. But if you loved an animal, and you were sure it loved you too, would that make it alright to have "relations" with it?

If that animal were mentally capable of consent in the same way that an adult human is, sure. But to my knowledge no nonhuman animals are capable of this.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

As for what you had to say about love. This, the comparison I'm about to draw, IS going to get me eaten alive, I'm sure. But if you loved an animal, and you were sure it loved you too, would that make it alright to have "relations" with it?

Oh, dear... I was just noting in another thread that it wouldn't take us long to come to the comparison of bestiality.

I understand that different people percieve different types of love as 'wrong', but I'm still not sure why this question seems inevitable in these types of debates. Just because others think that people can't 'tell' that loving someone of another gender is (in the other person's opinion) 'wrong', does not mean that the other person is going to start kissing a goose and trying to marry a giraffe. Can you (I'm assuming you're heterosexual) differentiate between loving another human being and an animal? Then chances are that most other people can, too.

To further complicate the situation, not everyone has the same opinion of god (or even a the existence of god) as everyone else does. My dieties are, for example, very pro- equality. That's why it gets complicated when you draw religion into it. Normally, I'd not put it so blunt as this, but my beliefs in humankind and my beliefs in Diety are every bit as valid as yours.

With that said, I will respectfully draw out of the thread, lest I (as you put it) eat you alive. I respect that you've tried to phrase things kindly, though.

 

[jiin_caltro]

So, homosexuality cannot be fairly compared to bestiality and same sex marriage will not lead to people marrying their pets.

You don't think so? I wouldn't be so sure.

You see, in most parts of the world (Excluding Japan and other places where such practices were done fairly early in their civilization) HS wasn't an accepted practice. But, people were warmed up to the idea, so to speak, the numbers grew and eventually, here we find ourselves having this debate. Other changes took place in the civilizations, and each new change brought hope for the change in the social look at HS. It could quite easily be a step toward beastiality.

At any rate, the point I was making to Jensa was that Love didn't really make it alright. Does consent, or the ability to give consent? Maybe it does.

At any rate, even if HS's DO consent to get a marriage license, they can't. At least, not in the U.S. and not legally. So...that goes against the afore-mentioned need to be married. If all HS's waited until it was declared otherwise, then I would have no non-religious element to contradict you with.

 

[Green Gaia]

If all HS's waited until it was declared otherwise, then I would have no non-religious element to contradict you with.

And that will soon be rectified.

 

[jiin_caltro]

Gah! That's really where we'll all end up. Because I have different beliefs, I have to take a different stand. To be perfectly honest, most of what I've put up until now has been a string of excuses. You want the truth? God said no. I believe in him, and in what he tells us is right and wrong. And because we have different beliefs, we'd never be able to settle this issue. This will, for the same reason, bring humanity to utter destruction

 

[jiin_caltro]

You just proved a point of mine, Maize. HS's WON'T wait until they can be married. So I can say it's immoral. Well, to me. We just pointed out the difference in beliefs. Frankly, we've hit a bit of a brick wall...I mean, I'd need to use scripture/religious texts to prove any points, but there really isn't a lot I can do if no one believes them anyway. ~sigh~

 

[Green Gaia]

Gah! That's really where we'll all end up. Because I have different beliefs, I have to take a different stand. To be perfectly honest, most of what I've put up until now has been a string of excuses. You want the truth? God said no. I believe in him, and in what he tells us is right and wrong. And because we have different beliefs, we'd never be able to settle this issue. This will, for the same reason, bring humanity to utter destruction

Well there's one I hadn't heard for about 20 minutes - gays are going to destroy civilization!

Really, at that one I don't know whether I should laugh or be furious.

 

[jiin_caltro]

I should really read everyone elses posts before I do another one, but...so be it

Feathersinhair, I think, misunderstood my point. I'm not suggesting that the people that are HS today are going to go into beastiality tomorrow. I'm saying that the void the will occur when HS's being married becomes legal and HS becomes socially acceptable (To a point), it will be replaced by something else. HS will undoubtedly be brought up as a defense in the future. If humanity gets that far. Which I'm not to sure it will.

 

[Green Gaia]

You just proved a point of mine, Maize. HS's WON'T wait until they can be married.

Are you suggestions that this is unique to same sex couples?

And you're right, couples aren't waiting until they have equal legal rights, but many still make a committment to each other, just as heterosexuals do, in front of family, their churches, their community. It is a marriage in every sense of the word, barring the legal document.

 

[jiin_caltro]

What!? Gah! That's not what I meant, Maize. I didn't mean to (I really didn't even say) that HS would lead to world destruction. I was actually referring to the fact that because so many peoples beliefs are different, and because if one group doesn't share another groups beliefs, there can't be true understanding. THAT, and not HS, is what will eventually destroy humanity. But this has nothing to do with the thread...

 

[Green Gaia]

I'm saying that the void the will occur when HS's being married becomes legal and HS becomes socially acceptable (To a point), it will be replaced by something else.

Slippery slope argument.

 

[Green Gaia]

What!? Gah! That's not what I meant, Maize. I didn't mean to (I really didn't even say) that HS would lead to world destruction. I was actually referring to the fact that because so many peoples beliefs are different, and because if one group doesn't share another groups beliefs, there can't be true understanding. THAT, and not HS, is what will eventually destroy humanity. But this has nothing to do with the thread...

Ok... sorry for misunderstanding you.

I still disagree. I think we can agree to disagree and live peacefully, in fact we must learn to.