-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Hmmmmm.....
- Thread starter Nehustan
- Start date
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Nehustan said:
If you're bored of it...I don't want to waste your time. I'm all "ears" if you'd like to explain.
Still...the Pentecost didn't occur on the date of Christ's Baptism...God's spirit fell upon Jesus and God proclaimed that he was well pleased with Christ...the Pentecost...which you posted on in your OP refers to the receiving of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...AFTER Christ's death and resurrection. We couldn't possibly receive Christ's spirit while He was living...
spacemonkey
Pneumatic Spiritualist
dawny0826 said:
We were refering specifally of the day of Pentecost.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
spacemonkey said:
I realize that. And it goes hand in hand...
Even if one does not buy into the idea of speaking in tongues, as happened on the actual DAY of Pentecost...when a Christian accepts Christ...they receive His Spirit...which is what happened for the first time on Pentecost.
Nehustan
Well-Known Member
Ruach Elohim
= 300 =
= 300 =
In Hebrew (and Arabic and many other languages) there are numbers associated with letters. In the Hebrew study known as Kabblah (which was originally an oral esoteric tradition...a while before Madonna) it is said that if a word has the same numerical value, while not being synonymous it can share a quality. For instance the word for Love (AHBH) and the word for Unity/One both equal the number 13, and the wordJahweh (IHVH) = 26. Thus one could say 'Jawheh is Love and Unity' or as I have said before putting it in the mouth of Bob Marley 'Jah!!! One Love'
So back to the Ruach Elohim thing, when the numbers in the phrase are added they equal 300. The hebrew letter which equals 300 alone is Shin, which as shown above looks like a dove.
Did I bore you?
Nehustan
Well-Known Member
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
In Hebrew I'm sure this is 'Ruach Elohim' but you'd need one of the Jewish members to verify. I wonder if there is an online Hebrew Torah....
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
In Hebrew I'm sure this is 'Ruach Elohim' but you'd need one of the Jewish members to verify. I wonder if there is an online Hebrew Torah....
Nehustan
Well-Known Member
Ok Dawny I know you have gone offline again (so GOOD MORNING!!!!!) but this post isn't really for you, just in case there are members who don't know the River Jordan part of Jesus' ministry...
Matthew 3:16
16 And Jesus, when he was baptised, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mark 1:10
10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
John 1:33
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptise with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptiseth with the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 3:16
16 And Jesus, when he was baptised, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mark 1:10
10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
John 1:33
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptise with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptiseth with the Holy Ghost.
Nehustan
Well-Known Member
Found an online Torah....it does in fact say 'Ruach Elohim'...
א בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ
1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
ב וְהָאָרֶץ, הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ, וְחֹשֶׁךְ, עַל-פְּנֵי תְהוֹם; וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים, מְרַחֶפֶת עַל-פְּנֵי הַמָּיִם.
2. Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.
א בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ
1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
ב וְהָאָרֶץ, הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ, וְחֹשֶׁךְ, עַל-פְּנֵי תְהוֹם; וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים, מְרַחֶפֶת עַל-פְּנֵי הַמָּיִם.
2. Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Nehustan said:
I can't dispute that in ways Christ's Baptism ties in with Pentecost. Everything in the NT ties together. Water baptism and spiritual baptism go hand in hand but are different.
The Pentecost deals solely with the spiritual baptism.
John the Baptist spoke of Christ and the Pentecost before it took place...
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Matthew 3:11
And Christ does baptize the believer with spirit and fire...and then we're baptized in water as a symbol of that commitment to Him and to symbolize our sins and old life being washed clean by His blood.
I know you've probably heard this over and over again, so my apologies if I've bored you.
Nehustan
Well-Known Member
dawny0826 said:I can't dispute that in ways Christ's Baptism ties in with Pentecost. Everything in the NT ties together. Water baptism and spiritual baptism go hand in hand but are different.
The Pentecost deals solely with the spiritual baptism.
John the Baptist spoke of Christ and the Pentecost before it took place...
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Matthew 3:11
And Christ does baptize the believer with spirit and fire...and then we're baptized in water as a symbol of that commitment to Him and to symbolize our sins and old life being washed clean by His blood.
I know you've probably heard this over and over again, so my apologies if I've bored you.
No not boring at all Dawny. I actually think that although there is a baptism of water (and of course also of spirit re: Dove at Jordan and Pentecost), that it is in fact a metaphor. In another thread I gave the attributes assigned to the four 'elements' (fire, water, air and earth), and I think that when one speaks of being reborn of water, symbolised by the mundane baptism by water, i.e. in a river, or font, one is striking the metaphor of the archtype of water, which is thought to represent the soul (I could explain this but again its quite long winded). Along with this is the 'fifth' element, from which all the other four proceed, which is the descending dove, The Spirit of God (Ruach Elohim). Thus one's soul must be renewed by water, then if you like sanctified by the Spirit of God.