Hindus what is your opinion on Srila Prabhupada ?

[ratikala]

Definition of bhakti is not just what is said from vaishnav POV

:bow:

Sri Ramakrishna said, once Rama asked Hanuman, 'how do you see me'
Hanuman answered

From sarira bhava I am your servent and you are my swami (God)
From Jiva Bhava I am ansh (part) and you are whole
But from Tatva Jnana (Jnana Drishti), I am you and you are me, we are not different, we are the same.


Aum

jai jai hanuman , hanuman ki jai :namaste

and thus by answering three ways he acknowledged the vaildity of all paths and caused no offence :namaste

 

[ratikala]

''Without devotion, Jnana is useless / baseless. Without Jnana, bhakti is meaningless,''

:bow:

 

[Amrut]

:bow:

jai jai hanuman , hanuman ki jai :namaste

and thus by answering three ways he acknowledged the vaildity of all paths and caused no offence :namaste

You have hit Bulls eye Do you want a toffee

Two opposite natured life forms can live in harmony or without interfering with each other

Human can breath in air but not in water
Fishes can breath in water but not in air.

So if two opposite or contradictory life force can live together, why cant spiritual paths?

Jai Bajarangbali Jai Shri Ram

Aum
Amrut

 

[Maya3]

I don´t think Bhakti is necessary. It can help you get into the "mood" so that it is easier to concentrate. And chanting helps you because of it´s vibration.
But the important path for an advaitin is meditation.

Maya

 

[mohinishaktidevi]

If Srila Prabhupada's views suits you, then you can neglect advaita.

Advaita does not rejects dvaita, but asks one to rise above it. So karma kand and devotional services are important for purification. To enjoy Lila and to have divine vision of God, one is still in dvaita and hence it is not a final state

Yes, If Prabhupada's views do not suit you, then you can neglect Prabhupada's teachings.

Prabhupada's views are the same a Krishna's views in the Gita.

To enjoy Lila ... to have ... vision of God, one is still in dvaita and hence it is not a final state

This is NOT what Arjuna himself conceeds to.

I will stick to pronouncements of Srila Prabhupada's, Krishna's Gita, Vyasas's Mahabharata, and Arjuna's Prayers in the Gita, and Bhisma's definitions.

This is my opinion of Srila Prabhupada.

 

[ratikala]

You have hit Bulls eye Do you want a toffee

is it prasad ? then yes please

Two opposite natured life forms can live in harmony or without interfering with each other

that would be nice too

Human can breath in air but not in water
Fishes can breath in water but not in air.

ah this is perfectly complementary , they can live in appreciation of eachothers differences

So if two opposite or contradictory life force can live together, why cant spiritual paths?

we can live in hope

Jai Bajarangbali Jai Shri Ram

Aum
Amrut

prehaps a little Sanjeevani in the toffes might help

 

[Amrut]

I don´t think Bhakti is necessary. It can help you get into the "mood" so that it is easier to concentrate. And chanting helps you because of it´s vibration.
But the important path for an advaitin is meditation.

Maya

What is bhakti? Who is called as bhakta? What you do in meditation?

The difference is the bhava and what we call as bhakti. 'I am not different from brahman' is called as bhakti. 'Total surrender of Ego to the SELF' is also called as bhakti. Another name of Jnani is 'Brahma-NishTha'. NishThaa means shraddha or faith. So the one who has strong faith that 'I am Brahman' and abides in it or is Brahman is called as Brahmanishtha.

If you define bhakti as singing hymms of personal deity then there ar bhajans of advaita nature like that sung by Narasimh Metha, Ganga Sati, Shri Raang Avadhut Maharaj, Bhole Baba's Vedanta Chandaavali or Vedanta Geetavali is also purely advaitaic and at times ajaata vaada.

As you have said lisstening to bhajans of Rama and Krishna are also helpful to prepare mind for meditation. Meditation is either Self Enquiry or OM. Most advaitins meditate on OM.

Bhakti, shraddha, samarpaNa, etc are all needed, but the way we define from dvaita POV is not the only way. Advaita does accept someone is higher than you i.e. Brahman / Atman. The very verse that is very famous and is said to sum up teachings of Adi Shankara is Brahma Satya, Jagad Mithya, Jivo Brahma Na Aparah.

It says Jiva and Brahma are not different. In this statement the duality is accepted in vachyaartha i.e. there is Jiva and Brahman which are separate when one is under maya i.e. one is ignorant (ajnaani). But the laxyaartha is that Jiva and Brahman are same. So advaita asks one to rise above dvaita. Dvaita is not negated from day one. The question is - why this world is said to be an illusion to ajnaani and how will this concept help one to progress? An Advaitin should think on it. Meditate on OM. The one who meditates on any mantra, be it OM or Om Shri Rama Chandraya Namah or Om Namah Shivaya, the status of mind is reflected. The reason why this world is said to be an illusion can be understood only to sincere meditators.

Even the mahavakya I am That, becomes non dual (for seeker) only if one realizes that I am That. That is brahman but this 'I' does not know that 'I' is that Brahman. The word AM is important as it makes the statement non-dual. Replace it with AM NOT -

I AM NOT That

So the laxyaartha is to realize that 'I' is Brahman and not Ego, sarira, jiva, buddhi, sukshma sarira, etc. To know the real nature of 'I' one has to enquire 'Who Am I', and dive deep within, into the source of thoughts, breath, OM, into the source where mind and intellect gets power and becomes active. This is very technical stuff and difficult to understand. Only a Guru can make you understand and God can give you experience of Who you are.

Bhakti is the base, necessary foundation. Without bhakti, one cannot be a Jnani. Even though one may not practice saakaara bhakti, he / she must have done it in past life / lives. As one is always in dvaita. Bhakti is stepping stone. Though through saakaara bhakti, one can have divine vision of God, one according to prakruti, can shift to advaita after the mind is stabilized. Advaita is not for everybody, but anyone can practice saakaara bhakti, specially it suits emotional temperaments says Swami Sivananda of Divine Life Society in Glory of Bhagavad Gita.

Aum

 

[Vinayaka]

I'd be totally lost without my bhakti.

 

[Amrut]

is it prasad ? then yes please

that would be nice too

prehaps a little Sanjeevani in the toffes might help

Prasad - pra-saad, it is the saada, a naada, voice of God (inner voice, intuition, Voice of Rama. Rama is constantly speaking to us, but due to kaama's constant chatter (or simply mental chatter), one cannot hear what raama says.

So be still, surrender unconditionally, make God your only Goal and keep keep him in center of your life. Spirituality is main business, other things are side business . Meditate as shastras say and the sweetness (bliss, peace and ecstasyhttps://www.google.co.in/search?cli...a=X&ei=oqGGUY30BYfwrQfcr4CQAQ&ved=0CCwQvwUoAA) will increase. Less the desires, more is the peace.

Then you can feel the sweetness (toffee is sweet). When you realize your true nature or have divine vision of God when you do not return back to this world. This is sweet nectar of immortality.

I guess, I have given you the address where you can get toffee with sanjeevani. It's all F R E E. Go Get It

Aum

 

[Amrut]

Yes, If Prabhupada's views do not suit you, then you can neglect Prabhupada's teachings.

Prabhupada's views are the same a Krishna's views in the Gita.

This is NOT what Arjuna himself conceeds to.

I will stick to pronouncements of Srila Prabhupada's, Krishna's Gita, Vyasas's Mahabharata, and Arjuna's Prayers in the Gita, and Bhisma's definitions.

This is my opinion of Srila Prabhupada.

Post from Advaita POV:

Well yes, Gita starts with a Mohaandha, blinded by moha - emotions, attachments with someone and worldly objects and Arjunas Last verse is naShTo Moha Smrutir labdhA, which means that his moha is destroyed and he has got back what he had lost - his true identity that ' I am Brahman'

Gita teaches about Brahma-vidya

At the end of each chapter, it is said

iti srimad, bhagavad gita-su, upanishad-su brahma-vidya-yaam, yog shastre, shri KrusihNa Arjuna savvade, atma-sayyam yogo naama ShasTo-dhyaayah

Krishna taught what is said in Upamishads and so Gita is consistent with Upanishad.

Arjuna is neutral and will do what Krishna will say. I though gor a gaudiya vaishnav, keeping body is must, either physical or subtle to enjoy lila. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Krishna said many things, but we cannot understand the whole Gita and cannot apply it in daily life. The thing is valuable only if it can be applied in practical life.

Like you have faith in Prabhupada, which is good, I do have faith in Advaita, in my Guru, Adi Shankara and in Sri Ramana Maharshi, but at the same time, being highly influenced by Sri Ramakrishna, I will not say I am right and you are wrong. There can be 2 opinions and different interpretations - both true. Better is to apply something than to just keep talking

All taken positively

But as title says, and the discussion on this thread, about his way of teachings, and the title of Gita as - Bhagavad Gita - As It is, etc, I have expressed my personal opinion. I am no authority in spirituality.

You can get different opinion not matching with Srila Prabhupada and this happens when you read copies outside gaudiya vaishnav, importantly commentary by an Advaita Sadhu. The interpretations will different, like ananya is translated as not-breaking or continuous as in BG 12:6, but in my my, it says, a+anya = not+different.

Namaste

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram amrut ji

Prasad - pra-saad, it is the saada, a naada, voice of God (inner voice, intuition, Voice of Rama. Rama is constantly speaking to us, but due to kaama's constant chatter (or simply mental chatter), one cannot hear what raama says.

Hmm , my mistake I should have writen prasada , but no matter prasad is also good , still inner voice is his grace .

So be still, surrender unconditionally, make God your only Goal and keep keep him in center of your life. Spirituality is main business, other things are side business . Meditate as shastras say and the sweetness (bliss, peace and ecstasy) will increase. Less the desires, more is the peace.

god is my sanity , deffinately other things are just the mecanics of temporary existance

Then you can feel the sweetness (toffee is sweet). When you realize your true nature or have divine vision of God when you do not return back to this world. This is sweet nectar of immortality.

jai jai

I guess, I have given you the address where you can get toffee with sanjeevani. It's all F R E E. Go Get It
Aum

:campk so now we need satsang to share it

 

[ratikala]

we are going just a little of topic here so prehaps out of respect we should start a new thread to discuss the importance of bhakti in jnana yoga and the importance of jnana in bhakti yoga would be good to gain a better understanding of each others veiws

for freindly discussion only

namaskaram :namaste

 

[Amrut]

we are going just a little of topic here so prehaps out of respect we should start a new thread to discuss the importance of bhakti in jnana yoga and the importance of jnana in bhakti yoga would be good to gain a better understanding of each others veiws

for freindly discussion only

namaskaram :namaste

Namaskaram,

I agree. Even OP does not seem active.

Aum

 

[Gopinath Dasa]

Go directly to the source then.. Bhagavat Gita As it Is .... which BTW is a lie, as it IS in Sanskrit not English.

Here AS IT IS means, without any interpretation or adulteration of Lord Krsna's message. Why we Hare Krsna's accept Srila Prabhupada's version as authoritative?

Let's see what Krsna has to say about the revealing of the knowledge of the Gita.

BG 4.1: The Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Krsna, said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvāku.

BG 4.2: This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.

BG 4.3: That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend and can therefore understand the transcendental mystery of this science.

Srila Prabhupada comes in a long line of disciplic succesion that originated from Krsna Himself. And Krsna says He reveals the knowledge to His dearest devotee & friend. Who is more of a dearer devotee, preacher & friend of Krsna in recent times than AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada himself?

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Namaste.

I don't know how far I can go, giving my personal opinion about a man some consider to be a holy sage, but I will try and do so with the utmost respect.

For/at the time, and what Srila Prabhupada actually did was downright incredible and amazing!

He came to the USA with basically nothing and founded a huge religious/spiritual institution. It just goes to show what the power of comradeship and devotion can do under good leadership!

Srila Prabhupada was the perfect example of Bhakti and Karma Yoga, working tirelessly and often around the clock, with rudimentary tools and implements to bring Lord Krishna's message to the West. I must give him the utmost credit and respect for what the man achieved in his life and how he achieved it.

He also wrote and said some pretty amazing stuff and I will often quote Srila Prabhupada from time to time.

As a person? (not that I actually knew him personally), but he seemed to me...appeared to me...'came off'...whatever you like to call it, as being arrogant, aloof and highly opiniated. I don't think, as a person, I could have ever liked the man. I understand that's not the point though....I always just got this 'cold vibe' from him and I don't know why. He also said a few things about women's issues and the current affairs of the time I pretty much disagreed with....not to mention, the commentaries he gave on certain religious texts seemed rather 'biased' towards the ISKCON philosophy rather than the Vaishnava philosophy...

He will always be remembered for what he did, rather than who he was.

Om Namah Shivaya

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

Prabhupad worked extremely hard at what he felt was his "marching orders" and he achieved tremendous accomplishments and a vast amount of authorship, commentaries, establishment of temples all over the world, and made a huge and permanent impact to America in particular, but also all over the world.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Metempsychosis]

Namaste.

I don't know how far I can go, giving my personal opinion about a man some consider to be a holy sage, but I will try and do so with the utmost respect.

For/at the time, and what Srila Prabhupada actually did was downright incredible and amazing!

He came to the USA with basically nothing and founded a huge religious/spiritual institution. It just goes to show what the power of comradeship and devotion can do under good leadership!

Well,I consider Prabhupada to be scholar in his own Sampradhay(philosophy) and he tried to spread those teachings through ways which I would not consider a realized saint would ideally use.

The name of his version of Bhagavath Gita was 'As it is' which itself says a lot about the person and his shrewd business acumen.Every acharya has told their commentary to be their own opinion rather than what it originally is.He considers his own version and his philosophy to be so lofty that this notion itself starts to act as a point of his downfall. ISKCON in my opinion is based on a business model which is very similar to Christianity and Islam.May be that shows why these religions have gotten so famous.

Srila Prabhupada was the perfect example of Bhakti and Karma Yoga, working tirelessly and often around the clock, with rudimentary tools and implements to bring Lord Krishna's message to the West. I must give him the utmost credit and respect for what the man achieved in his life and how he achieved it.

He also wrote and said some pretty amazing stuff and I will often quote Srila Prabhupada from time to time.

As a person? (not that I actually knew him personally), but he seemed to me...appeared to me...'came off'...whatever you like to call it, as being arrogant, aloof and highly opiniated. I don't think, as a person, I could have ever liked the man. I understand that's not the point though....I always just got this 'cold vibe' from him and I don't know why. He also said a few things about women's issues and the current affairs of the time I pretty much disagreed with....not to mention, the commentaries he gave on certain religious texts seemed rather 'biased' towards the ISKCON philosophy rather than the Vaishnava philosophy...

I would not consider him to be my role model let alone a perfect example of Bhakti Yoga.He tried to follow Bhakti and Karma yoga,but his personality flaws came out well in his writings and through his followers.His opinion on advaita and buddhism and his comparison of some of the ideal hindu sages to Kamsa and Hiranyakashipu says a lot about his personal values.

He will always be remembered for what he did, rather than who he was.

Buddha once told his followers to be 'be a light unto yourself'.In matters relating to philosophy,a person is not judged based what he talks but how he acts.As one of my friends pointed earlier,he is indeed a very very poor judge of human character.

I do not want to go overboard with criticizing Prabhupada and his followers,because life is short and every person has to decide for himself what ideas he wants to focus on.His case is very similar to Osho,but in completely divergent ways.

 

[Poeticus]

Gopinath Das & NYK, why did you revive a controversial thread?

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Well,I consider Prabhupada to be scholar in his own Sampradhay(philosophy) and he tried to spread those teachings through ways which I would not consider a realized saint would ideally use.

The name of his version of Bhagavath Gita was 'As it is' which itself says a lot about the person and his shrewd business acumen.Every acharya has told their commentary to be their own opinion rather than what it originally is.He considers his own version and his philosophy to be so lofty that this notion itself starts to act as a point of his downfall. ISKCON in my opinion is based on a business model which is very similar to Christianity and Islam.May be that shows why these religions have gotten so famous.



I would not consider him to be my role model let alone a perfect example of Bhakti Yoga.He tried to follow Bhakti and Karma yoga,but his personality flaws came out well in his writings and through his followers.His opinion on advaita and buddhism and his comparison of some of the ideal hindu sages to Kamsa and Hiranyakashipu says a lot about his personal values.



Buddha once told his followers to be 'be a light unto yourself'.In matters relating to philosophy,a person is not judged based what he talks but how he acts.As one of my friends pointed earlier,he is indeed a very very poor judge of human character.

I do not want to go overboard with criticizing Prabhupada and his followers,because life is short and every person has to decide for himself what ideas he wants to focus on.His case is very similar to Osho,but in completely divergent ways.

Namaste.

Being a member of ISKCON for a few years during my late teens, I always saw Srila Prabhupada as being more of a 'strict grandpa, keeping us all in line with a big stick' rather than any kind of 'loving Guru'. I just couldn't worship him in the same way the other devotees did...I just didn't 'feel it'.

I also agree with most of what you have said, but in the attempt to try to overcome this emotion, I sat down and read all of the Srila Prabhupada Lilamrita by Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami...it just opened my eyes up to the whole thing, but made little difference to what I felt.

In fact, I was still a Shaiva in hiding.....

What Srila Prabhupada represents to his devotees...yes, I can honestly understand how and why...but you are right about the Osho comparison in the end. He let the 'monster he created' swallow him up.

Om Namah Shivaya

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Gopinath Das & NYK, why did you revive a controversial thread?

Namaste.

It was just posted on before me and I didn't notice the original date. I apologise for the necrobump (although I didn't bump it), but if people want me to sage it, I will.

Om Namah Shivaya