Hindus what is your opinion on Srila Prabhupada ?

[FreeThinker619]

Namaste,

i have been reading up on him and it seems that there is this stigma where some people are against him/some for him.

what is your opinion?

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm in the middle.

On one hand, he did wonders to bring Hinduism into mainstream America. Many people would still have no idea what certain aspects of Hinduism would be about were it not for the Hare Krishna movement. Today this may have changed somewhat with a lot of Indian immigrants.

OTOH, his organisation was wrought with troubles and controversy. So I don't think you have to take a love it or hate it stance. It's a mixed bag.

 

[FreeThinker619]

okay someone once told me that he gives this wild interpretations of the Gita. who would you suggest i look into?

 

[Vinayaka]

Go directly to the source then.. Bhagavat Gita As it Is .... which BTW is a lie, as it IS in Sanskrit not English.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I'm in the middle.

On one hand, he did wonders to bring Hinduism into mainstream America. Many people would still have no idea what certain aspects of Hinduism would be about were it not for the Hare Krishna movement. Today Hinduism may have changed somewhat with a lot of Indian immigrants.

OTOH, his organisation was wrought with troubles and controversy. So I don't think you have to take a love it or hate it stance. It's a mixed bag.

I agree it is a mixed bag. Even his making "Hinduism popular" in the 1960s had a huge down side. The common man on the street might have not had an idea what Hinduism is all about. The Intelligencia did and had great respect for it. In fact the first half of the 20th century it had a huge impact on western thought. Today it has lost much of it's luster due in large part to Prabhupad.

I think it is very clear that Prabhupad had great love and respect for Krishna. He made very clear and bright the path of Bhakti, in an authentic and genuine way. He was also a very poor judge of character he allowed things to go under his very nose that should have be red flags to even to a normal sensitive person. I personally could not except an acharya who had a large % of his leadership behaving in the ways they did. It seems he was clueless when it came to human behavior,

 

[Vinayaka]

It seems he was clueless when it came to human behavior,

I think that's one of the pitfalls of being blissed out from bhakti, or living in an advaitic state, or whatever. It can make you pretty naive about what us commoners are up to, unless you're incredibly adept at reading auras, or understanding human nature, or you have loyal spies watching out on your behalf.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

okay someone once told me that he gives this wild interpretations of the Gita. who would you suggest i look into?

I like this one for study. Bhagavad Gita: (Tapasyananda): The Scripture of Mankind at Vedanta Press and Catalog

 

[Jainarayan]

okay someone once told me that he gives this wild interpretations of the Gita. who would you suggest i look into?

I wouldn't call them wild, but rather, overthought, especially 9.26 "If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, flower, fruit or water, I will accept it" which is a commandment to vegetarianism; it's not imo. I also like this site The BHAGAVAD-GITA in English because of the four commentaries provided. The commentaries on 9.26 are straight to the point that it is easy for a true devotee of Sri Krishna to please him. Bhagavad-Gita: Chapter 9, Verse 26 Though I like Srila Prabhupada's English wording of some verses. They are somewhat poetic and flowing.

Another view of the Bhagavad Gita is Ramana Maharshi's. He never read the Bhagavad Gita, but when he heard it, he took the verses at face value, not overthinking them, again using 9.26 as an example. Swami Tapasyananda's and Eknath Easwaran's, imo, are to be taken at face value and not overthought. Paramahansa Yogananda has a liberal and universalist interpretation.

 

[Jainarayan]

In fact the first half of the 20th century it had a huge impact on western thought.

Four words:
Swami Vivekananda.
Paramahansa Yogananda.

 

[Jainarayan]

I like this one for study. Bhagavad Gita: (Tapasyananda): The Scripture of Mankind at Vedanta Press and Catalog

Me haz that one!... full size and pocket editions. I carry the pocket edition with me in my truck ("lorry" to our friends across the pond) to read any time.

 

[Riverwolf]

I always liked Tapasyananda's translations... even if his grasp of English can falter at times.

 

[Jainarayan]

Tapasyananda's wording of 2.2 cracks me up: "O Arjuna! Whence has this loathsome stupidity come upon you in this crisis?" Prabhupada translates "The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, how have these impurities come upon you?" The Sanskrit, which is beyond my ken, is:

sri-bhagavan uvaca
kutas tva kasmalam idam
visame samupasthitam
anarya-justam asvargyam
akirti-karam arjuna

I have to admit that I frequently use "Whence has this loathsome stupidity come upon you?" when I'm chewing someone out (usually my partner ).

 

[mohinishaktidevi]

I just found out that the Hare Krishna Movement was pre-dated by a Babaji Swami 60 years earlier, years before WWI. This is amazing! I found this reference on another Forum. A Gaudiya Vaishnava that came to America in the early 1900’s! And he used many similar terms as Prabhupada seemed to coin, yet Prabhupada showed up 60 years later.

A book from the early 1900’s that was entitled “Shree Krishna”, and was an example of early introduction of Hinduism into the United States from a Guru who came from India that predated Prabhupada and other such religious examples of Indian Gurus of the 1940’s, 50’s and (in the example of Prabhupad) 1960’s.

I literally have volumes and volumes of books on Hinduism from decades past, which I keep secure from fire etc. in a secure storage. Some books, for example Ramayanas, I keep in my house, but others I keep in this storage. As I mentioned in this posting, I recalled a book with a blue cover hardbound from pre-World War I. I haven’t had a chance to locate this book in my collection, but now it doesn’t matter since tonight I discovered the very book while simply doing a search on “Hinduism” (incredible, that is all I entered in the search).

The book indeed was a blue covered hardbound, printed in 1904. The entire title of the book was “Sree Krishna The Lord of Love”. It was authored by Baba Premanand Bharati. You can still find copies of this book to purchase on the internet, sometimes in its original condition, or sometimes copies of the original print (like photo copies).

He advocated that the “conclusion of Vishnu worship is meditation on gopa-rupah or specific form of Krishna”.

Information found:

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Surendranath Mukerji (died 1914) better known by his religious name -Baba Premanand Bharati- was among the first Hindu teachers to come to America, arriving around 1902 from Bengal. He was a student of Swami Brahmanand Bharati and a follower of the Krishna Consciousness Movement (ultimately more well known thanks to 'Hare Krishna' movement of the '70's) and founded the "Krishna Samaj" (now defunct).

Bharati, the nephew of a prominent Bengali judge, formed the Krishna Samaj in N.Y.C. and lectured to popular audiences in other eastern cities. He eventually moved to L.A. where a temple was constructed and he had his greatest following. In 1909 he returned to India where, with a few of his American disciples, he opened a mission in Calcutta. The mission failed for lack of financial support and he & his followers returned to America. He died in Calcutta in 1914. The temple dissolved in America soon after Bharati's death.

In the years immediately after his death, Bharati was attacked by people opposed to the growth of Hinduism in America, such as Elizabeth A. Reed, whose study of Bharati and the other early gurus was a significant factor in building public support for the Asian Exclusion Act passed in 1917. The strength and devotion of Bharati's disciples, however, kept his memory alive over the years.

In the 30's, members of the Order of Loving Service (a California mystical group) dedicated the book "Square" as follows: " To Baba Premanand Bharati, who by his love, patience, and continued watchfulness has led me out of darkness into Light, out of out of weariness into Rest, out of confusion into Understanding, out of continuous striving into Perfect Peace."

In the 70's, members of AUM Temple of Universal Truth (founded in the 20's) were reprinting Bharati's writings in their periodical and selling pictures of "Our Beloved Baba Bharati".

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Further found:

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Bharati, Baba Premanand
(d. 1914)
Pioneer Hindu leader in the United States

Baba Premanand Bharati was among the small group of Hindu leaders who entered the United States in the decades after the World’s Parliament of Religions in 1893. He founded the Krishna Samaj in New York City soon after the start of the new century.

Born Surendranath Mukerji in India, Bharatiled a life prior to his arrival in the United Statesin 1902 that is little known. He was a devotee of Krishna and followed a form of Vaishnavite BHAKTI YOGA similar to that popularized in the1970s by the INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS. He advocated the repetition of the Hare Krishna mantra as a means of gaining release from the wheel of reincarnation and gaining enlightenment. Bharati first worked in New York City, where he organized the Krishna Samaj. He lectured along the East Coast for several years and then moved to Los Angeles, where he built a temple and developed a youthful and loyal following. After only a few years, in 1909, he returned to India, where he died in 1914, still a relatively young man. In the years after his death, Bharati was condemned by American nativists such as Elizabeth Reed, who were mobilizing public support for the Asian Exclusion Act, which passed in 1917. At about that time the Krishna Samaj was shut down. However, Bharati’s followers later formed several other organizations with similar missions, including the Order of Loving Service, active only in the1930s, and the AUM Temple of Universal Truth ,which continued to operate into the 1980s, reprinting Bharati’s writings in their periodicals and circulating his picture a half-century after his death.


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I hope you found this information interesting.

You can find an edition from the Open Library on the internet:

Click on “Read Online” Link in the upper right corner under the bold “READ” - Use the FOLLOWING LINK:

Sree Krishna (Open Library)

 

[mohinishaktidevi]

A little more:

Further reading:
Baba Premanand Bharati,
AmericanLectures (Calcutta: Indo-American Press, n.d.); ———,
Shree Krishna (New York: Krishna Samaj, n.d.); Eliza-beth A. Reed,
Hinduism in Europe and America (NewYork: G. P. Putnam’s Sons, 1914).

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Also, he had a magazine. His periodical was The Light of India, which ran between 1906 and 1912.

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Born in 1868, his first name was Surendranath Mukerji, and his name changed to Baba Bharati when he was initiated later on, (after a spell of association with certain Bengali intellectuals) into the lineage of Lokanatha Brahmacari, a Bengali Yogi, by Lokanatha’s disciple Brahmananda Bharati. His initiation wasn’t within a Gaudiya Vaishnava lineage but a Sankarite lineage outside of the Vaishnava lines, but to receive some sanyasi status had in the past been a common practise for Vaishnavas to receive ritualistic intiation into Sannyasa by the Sankarite order anyway. It was common for such to be still sanyasi and yet differ doctrinally with Sankaracarya, esepcially if they became more inclined to devotional bhakti traditions, some of which even contained a number of Sankarites. Chaitanya had done the same.

Baba Bharati gradually became influenced by the Gaudiya tradition of Jagadbandhu Sundar Hari. Jagadbandhu was seen in his branch of the Krishna Chaitanya tree as a dual embodiment of Chaitanya and one of his closest associates Nityananda, and embodying their energy and becoming famous as their incarnation of their fused aspect, he started his own branch of the Gaudiya tradition, a branch which is flourishing, with its temples and traditions, texts and saints. Inspired by this tradition after a certain spiritual awakening in seeing a drama centred on Chaitanya performed with much devotion someplace in Bengal, he desired to spread such love of God in the west establishing his Krishna Samaj after his arrival in New York in 1902. Lecturing in various American cities on the traditions of Chaitanya and its practical applications in the west, he came to establish himself for a while in Los Angeles, California, where he had constructed a Krishna temple to accommodate the devotion of his many followers there. Returning to India in 1907 with some of his disciples from the west, he opened a mission in Calcutta, which failed for financial support and folded in around 1910 prompting him and some of his followers to head back towards America. He returned back to India in 1911, after stopping over in England on the way, and passed away, quitting the mortal coil in Calcutta in 1914. Soon afterwards, his mission in America crumbled in his wake, due to religious and national predujices, of that nature which went behind the Asain Exclusion Act of 1917, as well as the difficulties of various followers. Save for places here and there, its infrastructure crumbled, but his real mission trickled alive, hidden, unknown for many years except in the hearts of individuals who had once had contact with him and those who contacted his light through his writings and the inner golden spirit of Gauranga that they revealed. Of course the great souls of Gauranga’s golden glow pass on and remain in the minds and hearts of those they had contact with either through lecture, discipleship or plain inspiration with contact with teachings read and perused. Thus in the 1930s we hear of a group, a mystical group named the Order of Loving Service, from California, who dedicated one of their mystical revelations in the form of a book named The Square to Baba Premananda, who they saw as their guru and prime teacher. A group named the Aum Temple of Universal Truth, founded in the 1920s promoted his teachings in the 1970s publishing them in their periodical, along with his picture, to which they had devotion towards.

Besides his writings in his periodical there was the books. Sri Krishna-The Lord of Love which is an exposition on Gaudiya Vaishnava theology and published in 1904 was the main. His other book, a testament to the utilisation of the co-creative story weave in the service of Krishna in modern times, is a novel addressing the Indian negativity within Kipling’s Kim, named Jim, published in 1910-11, which was also a serial in his periodical too. A frequent contributor to Baba’s periodical was Rose Reinhardt Anthon who was also a semi famous figure in the esoetric literary fields of the day and a much devoted disciple of the movement. Another interesting person associated with this group was Elsa Barker, a female American novelist, short story writer and poet, whose spiritual and seance like contact with a dead person called Letters from A Living Dead Man were pretty much famous in their time. In regards to Rose Anthon, Somewhere there is an account of her life, which was unfortunately not available at the time of writing. But she edited and published a book on Indian stories and tales of wisdom, Stories of India: moral, mystical, spiritual and romantic (1906). storiesindiamor00housgoog Other contributors to the periodical were a Vishvarupa Chaturvedi, Julian Hawthorne (of that clan of the Nathanael Hawthorn story realm) and Adelia Bee Adams. This periodical is hard to obtain too. There are many mysteries, but one thing is clear is that people were involved in the dissemination of Baba’s Krishna Chaitanya wisdom, a wisdom which is even attended to today. This Baba has left a trail for those who wish to study his teachings and acts more thoroughly, which is fortunately happening due to even later sparks of inspiration. The Baba was also attended by a Krishnananda Dasa, a sadhu initiated by a Barha Babaji, of whose life also not much is known. Baba Premananda was a source of inspiration for Tolstoy with whom he had read his book Krishna the Lord of Love.

 

[Vinayaka]

In the Canadian historical family television drama 'Road to Avonlea' there is an episode where a traveling swami comes through town. I know the books, and subsequent series had some basis in history, or at least the writers used history as a guide. So I think there was probably even more than this one and Vivekenanda, but its really hard to tell. The portrayal in 'Road to Avonlea' was essentially positive, if I recall correctly.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I just found out that the Hare Krishna Movement was pre-dated by a Babaji Swami 60 years earlier, years before WWI. This is amazing! I found this reference on another Forum. A Gaudiya Vaishnava that came to America in the early 1900’s! And he used many similar terms as Prabhupada seemed to coin, yet Prabhupada showed up 60 years later.

From what I understand one of Swami Vivekananda disciples became a Vaishnava Swami in the 1890s. It was Swami Vivekananda who first brought Vaishnava Ideas to America. It is said that a good number of his first western followers preferred Vishishtadvaita to Advaita.

 

[ratikala]

dear vinayaka ji ,

Go directly to the source then.. Bhagavat Gita As it Is .... which BTW is a lie, as it IS in Sanskrit not English.

to be fair the" bhagavad gita as it is " is in sanskrit well at least my copy is !
it has transliteration and then translation which personaly I find very usefull , my translation is to english but I belive it has been translated into many many languages in the same format sanskrit first transliteration second followed by a literal translation then a final translation to try to put it into flowing verses .

to me that is very helpfull .

 

[ratikala]

dear mohinishakti devi ,

I just found out that the Hare Krishna Movement was pre-dated by a Babaji Swami 60 years earlier, years before WWI. This is amazing! I found this reference on another Forum. A Gaudiya Vaishnava that came to America in the early 1900’s! And he used many similar terms as Prabhupada seemed to coin, yet Prabhupada showed up 60 years later.

this goes to show that much of what srila prabhupada taught is what he himself was taught , and that he was not giving personal inturpretations but he was trying to give the west the benifit of the gaudia vaisnava veiw as he was taught it .

I am not sure what the problem is that many people have with srila prabhupada he was simply carying out his given instructions , it seems that our opinion of him is very much coloured by the later behavior of his deciples .

unfairly I think the movement is judged by the mistakes made by some and not judged by the benifits that have been shared by many .

the quotes you give also show the resistance that the west in this case the american people put up when faced with changing attitudes .
that resistance to change is still prevelant in the general tendancy to criticise any leader of a large organisation that brings about any change in attitude .

srila prabhupada was part of a tradition , part of a liniage of gurus , his devotees elevated him to a status of being the founder of a movement that movement has now gone in its own direction due to time place and circumstance . I am not entirely sure that we can hold him responcible for that time place and circumstance , and if we could read him in a unbiased way I think you will see that much of what he said was due to the situation he was seeing him self in .

I think he desedrves reading with an open mind .

 

[Amrut]

Namaste,

Not to speak ill of Srila, as it has nothing to do with it, but my uncle before shifting to America had donated some amount to his foundation. After he left India, all his posts are redirected at my house.

Once I received a letter about 'Hare Rama, Hare Krishna Rock Concert'

Once the founder leaves, there is decline in foundation.

The atmosphere in Juhu, Mumbai is not much conductive to meditation, though it have bhava. It's too crowded, like a popular Balaji temple.

Again, regarding His commentary on Gita, my neighbour has a copy. It does have sanskrit verse in Devanagari script, later followed by romanized Sanskrit, with word-to-word meaning.

But since prem bhakti needs physical body, so all tatva jnana verse are taken as 'knowledge required for devotion'.

In verse 12:6, the word ananya is translated as not breaking i.e. continuous.

As I understand it is
a+anya
a= not, anya = different
not-different

So ananya bhakti means not different. But a bhakta will never say, 'I am brahman', so that is understandable

Again, after each chapter, there is closing verse like in chapter 6 it is

iti-srimad bhagavad-gita-su, upanishad-su, brahma-vidyAyAm, yog-Sartre, shri krushna-arjuna, sam-vaade, Atma-sayyam-yogo-nAma, ShaSTo-adhyAya

But Srila's commentary says something like,

Hereby, the purport of Srila Prabhupada on bhagavad Gita, chapter 6 named DhyAna yoga ends.

Most authors have renamed 'Atma-sayyam-yog' to either 'abhyAsa Yog' or 'dhyAna-yog' to avoid confusion, but the end verse should not be changed.

I do not remember the exact words (weak memory), but they do not contain words like brahma-vidya and essence of upanishads

Again, some verse from chapter 7:13 upto 7:26 talkabout nirakara svarupa but the meaning is changed to suit dvaita or visistadvaita. That is understandable and seems logical. I have a quote different translation by Swami Tadrupanand, who is an advaitin.

All the 'Me' is translated as Krushna, supreme personality of Godhead.

But statements are made from different standpoints. So 'I' or 'Me' can be

1. Body
2. Mind
3. Jiva
4. Ego
5. Atma bhava (Brahma bhava
6. Ishwara
7. Intellect

e.g. BG 1:1, 'I' means body and ego, I and mine-ness
Again, when Arjuna say that I do not want to fight and kill my relatives. He is talking from sarira bhAva. When Krishna says, I know everything and you know nothing, he is talking as 'Ishwara'. When he is talking about Brahman and his un-mesfested form and maya (5:6, 9:4 – 9:10, 7:13, 8:3, 18:66), he is talking from Atma bhava.

When he is talking about neutrality of God (5:15), it is brahman. It can also be taken as Ishwara.

Sometimes, Both Ishrawa and Brahman can be taken from same verse, e.g. Leave everything and 'come to me' or 'go to me', here one can go to both ishwara and brahman.

Srila Prabhupada's Gita may be good and may induce bhakti, but bhagavad Gita - As It is? don't know. None can claim it, as there are interpretations from

karma (lokmanya tilak's Gita Rahasya'),
bhakti (Srila Prabhupada or Jnaneshwari Gita or Swami Ramsukhdas ji's sadhaka sanjivani - both jnana and bhakti mixed) or
Jnana (Swami Tadrupanand, Swami Chinmayanand) or
from Yog standpoint (Bhagavad Gita in Light of Kriya Yoga by Paramhansa Hariharananda and his disciple Paramhansa Prajnanananda - praGYAnanda.

Again, english translations sometimes sucks. If you are an Indian, better read in mother tongue then to read in english

Many times, words are wrongly translated

e.g.

Mithya is translated as unreal or illusion.

satya = truth, one which is present at all times (past present and future) and in all states (waking, dream, deep sleep) and even in turiya, e.g. brahman, atman, bhagavan

a-satya = not-true = unreal = false. not present at any time and at any state e.g. rabbit's horn

but many times, a-satya is translated as unreal and connected to maya and illusion.

mithya = in-between, not true and not false.

a. one which is not there but is experienced e.g. Sea-shel, rope as snake
b. one which is present in one tense and one state, but not all. i.e. This world is experienced in waking but not in dream state, hence it is not Sasvata (eternal).


baadha is translated as 'negation' and 'rejection'. Now baadha is absence or negation and not rejection. But many have translated and you will find that Advaita is negation of this world and maya.

Aum
Amrut

 

[MochaRadha]

Many say he brought hinduism to America and that may be teue. but I found out about hinduism withput knowing about him and very glad I did too. he was horribly sexist and had i discovered hinduism through his works I would have never looked deeper into the faith