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Hindus should restart worshipping Indra

atheisthindu

SARBA DHARMA SAMBHABA
Sir here Indra means "adhipati"..
Haven't you read about the Conflict between Indra and Krishna?
When Krishna saved Gokul from the anger of Indra by upholding the Gobardhan Parvat with a single hand..Krishna was avtar of Vishnu that is known to any Hindu..
Vishnu was the protector,
Bhamha, Vishnu and Mahadeva all were more powerful than any "devtas"..
Hindu Dharma[its dharma not religion] has a strong logic behind every single word in its scriptures..
Knowledge makes us tolerant , that is why we are so polite and tolerant sir...
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
I hope you know the appearance of Goddess Kali. She is black-faced and black-bodied. She has bulging eyes. She always has a tongue sticking out and has ferocious look on her face. On top of it she wears a garland of human skulls. Don't get offended by my above statements. I am not passing any remark on Kali. I am just describing her appearance.

What I find surprising is how can anyone imagine such an appearance of Divine ! It also surprises me when you think "she represents all the attribute of the divine to me in a nice neat package".

You describe yourself as Shakta i.e. follower of Shaktism. Followers of Shaktism consider "Adi Shakti" to be supreme and worship God in female form. Goddess Parvati herself is Adi Shakti and all Goddesses like Durga, Kali, Santoshimata, Ekvira, Ambabai and all "Gram-devatas" i.e. village Goddesses are her forms.

You must be knowing Goddess Shachi who is Indra's wife and also the Goddess of happiness. The concept of Adi Shakti has its roots in worship of Shachi. The Sanskrit word "Shakti" i.e. energy is derived from root "Shak" which itself is derived from "Shach". And Shachi literally means energy i.e. personification of energy.

Nah you didn't offend me and yes I know of her imagery (fyi you missed a LOT). No the only thing offensive (its not easy to often me and you didn't) is your essentially saying I was wrong in the form of shakti I choose (incorrect by the way SHE chose ME). But since you asked I will explain to you how Maa Kali is a great image of the divine to me.
Its a long list grab popcorn :

First let's look at her name Maa meaning mother. We her deovtees do not call her scary monster kali or blood thirsty murderous Kali or demon slayer Kali. We call her mother.because she is as a mother to us.

Kali means time. According to science time and space are the same. Er go the divine IS the universe and more

Now to her image.
Her skin is dark(we see her more often being blue or purple) resembling the flormlessnes of the divine.

As mentioned before she is mother. A mother creates life and feeds it from her breast ( mind you in many images of Kali her breast are exposed and enlarged as further evidence of this). All this means the divine created and preserves all

The head she holds is our ego which she severs from our body. You motive she drains the head of blood. Meaning she is riding that which keeps our ego alive.

The garland is made of 50 heads for each letter in the sanskrit alphabet. Meaning contained within the divine is all the knowledge of this world and the next.

Her tongue is low from drinking the blood of demons. Meaning she protects us from evil, even going as far as to slay this evil which wishes us pain.

Upon Siva she stands without shakti there is no energy. The divine is that energy that allows the universe to work.

In her story she loses control and murder even human. This reminds me the divine is not just one "good" source. The divine is all things both "good" and "bad".

She makes er home in the cremation grounds . All things will die and will end up at the divines feet.

When is see and more importantly what I feel is a mothers love. I don't need to see or feel as I do. But don't assume that what you see is all there is to be seen



THANKS SUMIT! That was a great answer and I appreciate you for it.
 

ThunderRD

Member
THANKS SUMIT! That was a great answer and I appreciate you for it.

Why did you write this last sentence ? What is the meaning of it ? Is it that what you have written is copy-pasted from somewhere else ? Doesn't matter even if it is copy-pasted. It is not necessary that everything that we post should be our own words.

But still I would like to know why you wrote this sentence.
 

ThunderRD

Member
Sir here Indra means "adhipati"..
Haven't you read about the Conflict between Indra and Krishna?
When Krishna saved Gokul from the anger of Indra by upholding the Gobardhan Parvat with a single hand..Krishna was avtar of Vishnu that is known to any Hindu..
Vishnu was the protector,
Bhamha, Vishnu and Mahadeva all were more powerful than any "devtas"..
Hindu Dharma[its dharma not religion] has a strong logic behind every single word in its scriptures..
Knowledge makes us tolerant , that is why we are so polite and tolerant sir...

Yes I know about the conflict between Indra and Krishna. Indra started torrential rain in Gokul. But Krishna himself was responsible for this situation. People of Gokul used to worship Indra since a long time. Krishna asked them to stop his worship. Does it befit any God to ask people to stop worship of another God ? Is this fair ?

By the way this is the story from Puranas which cannot be taken to be true since they were written much later. Rigved is the first book of our religion and according to Rigved Indra is Supreme while Brahma and Shiva are not mentioned in Rigved and Vishnu is present as a minor deity.
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
Why did you write this last sentence ? What is the meaning of it ? Is it that what you have written is copy-pasted from somewhere else ? Doesn't matter even if it is copy-pasted. It is not necessary that everything that we post should be our own words.

But still I would like to know why you wrote this sentence.

because of the things one of the members in this forums said shortly after what you said. thier screen name is Sumit. Everything I wrote are my words
 

ThunderRD

Member
Nah you didn't offend me and yes I know of her imagery (fyi you missed a LOT). No the only thing offensive (its not easy to often me and you didn't) is your essentially saying I was wrong in the form of shakti I choose (incorrect by the way SHE chose ME). But since you asked I will explain to you how Maa Kali is a great image of the divine to me.
Its a long list grab popcorn :

First let's look at her name Maa meaning mother. We her deovtees do not call her scary monster kali or blood thirsty murderous Kali or demon slayer Kali. We call her mother.because she is as a mother to us.

Kali means time. According to science time and space are the same. Er go the divine IS the universe and more

Now to her image.
Her skin is dark(we see her more often being blue or purple) resembling the flormlessnes of the divine.

As mentioned before she is mother. A mother creates life and feeds it from her breast ( mind you in many images of Kali her breast are exposed and enlarged as further evidence of this). All this means the divine created and preserves all

The head she holds is our ego which she severs from our body. You motive she drains the head of blood. Meaning she is riding that which keeps our ego alive.

The garland is made of 50 heads for each letter in the sanskrit alphabet. Meaning contained within the divine is all the knowledge of this world and the next.

Her tongue is low from drinking the blood of demons. Meaning she protects us from evil, even going as far as to slay this evil which wishes us pain.

Upon Siva she stands without shakti there is no energy. The divine is that energy that allows the universe to work.

In her story she loses control and murder even human. This reminds me the divine is not just one "good" source. The divine is all things both "good" and "bad".

She makes er home in the cremation grounds . All things will die and will end up at the divines feet.

When is see and more importantly what I feel is a mothers love. I don't need to see or feel as I do. But don't assume that what you see is all there is to be seen



THANKS SUMIT! That was a great answer and I appreciate you for it.

The image of Kali which you have described or the one which I have seen since childhood is in stark contrast to image of Shachi. Kali looks ferocious while Rigved describes Shachi as endless beauty.
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
Well I was going to just leave this conversation and never come back, but I feel some closure would do us both good. See I feel this way because when ever I am having a debate with a friend and they walk away without word I fear greatly I have offended them. I do not wish this fear on your and wanted you to know I am no offended by you so please do not have this worry in your heart as I depart(lol I rhymed) . I do thank you for your concern and the things you have taught me, and I am happy you have found Indra and I wish you nothing but bliss and love in your worship. I will continue my worship of my dear mother Kali, if curiosity takes over your brain Ramakrishna can explain my thought on Kali maa far better than I could.

Namaste.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
The image of Kali which you have described or the one which I have seen since childhood is in stark contrast to image of Shachi. Kali looks ferocious while Rigved describes Shachi as endless beauty.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

“When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.” - Tao Te Ching chapter 2.
 

Ashoka

श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
Indrani is "beautiful" depending on who you ask. I think Maa Kali and Maa Dhumavati are beautiful, yet many describe Dhumavati as "ugly" and "buck toothed."

Besides, Indrani is stil worshiped. She's a Matrika, and many compare her to Chinnamasta, the Goddess who severes her head.
 

Viraja

Jaya Jagannatha!
Gods symbolize something profound. None of us have a right knowledge of why they exactly look the way they do. For example, while I may know Sri Narasimha as having a lion face and carrying conch and discus, I do not exactly know why he should have a Lion face. For that, Lemaster had given a nice description of the symbolism of ma Kali. Given such a profound meaning to her appearence, why is it necessary to compare the external beauty, which as Jai aptly put varies from person to person? Some people may need or feel connected to only ferociuos deities and nobody can question why they do so..
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I do not exactly know why he should have a Lion face.

As compared to taking tiger form? That I don't know. :shrug: The lion and tiger were the fiercest animals known to ancient Indians. Taking the form of a man-animal that would rip Hiranyakashipu to shreds would not violate Brahmā's boon to Hiranyakashipu to not be killed by neither man nor beast... Narasimha was neither and both.

Jaya Narasimha Sri Narasimha Jaya Jaya Narasimha! :)

images


By the way, you probably know all this. :eek:
 

Viraja

Jaya Jagannatha!
Oh yeah, Jai! I have indeed forgotten about the boon of Hiranyakashipu! Thanks ! :)
The point I was trying to make was that sometimes we do not know what one particular attribute of god signifies.. for example, we all know Sri Vishnu carries the Conch. Why does he exactly need to carry the conch which is not even a weapon - that's the point I was trying to make.

By the way, cool Narasimha deva head. The other day I read about Lion meat being sold and eaten in America :eek: and I felt sad..
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
...Sri Vishnu carries the Conch. Why does he exactly need to carry the conch which is not even a weapon

Good question... no idea.

The other day I read about Lion meat being sold and eaten in America :eek: and I felt sad..

It must be black market. I think even horse meat is banned.
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
Good question... no idea.



It must be black market. I think even horse meat is banned.

Nope no black market. It was in the news and they were selling it at some restraunt. It was EXPENSIVE! Like 100$ a pound or something crazy like that.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
That's disgusting and unconscionable! :mad:
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
Gods symbolize something profound. None of us have a right knowledge of why they exactly look the way they do. For example, while I may know Sri Narasimha as having a lion face and carrying conch and discus, I do not exactly know why he should have a Lion face. For that, Lemaster had given a nice description of the symbolism of ma Kali. Given such a profound meaning to her appearence, why is it necessary to compare the external beauty, which as Jai aptly put varies from person to person? Some people may need or feel connected to only ferociuos deities and nobody can question why they do so..

Okay I tried to send you message tot hank you but yeah... Thank you for this. this was very nice of you and I appreciate what you said.
 

ThunderRD

Member
Well I was going to just leave this conversation and never come back, but I feel some closure would do us both good. See I feel this way because when ever I am having a debate with a friend and they walk away without word I fear greatly I have offended them. I do not wish this fear on your and wanted you to know I am no offended by you so please do not have this worry in your heart as I depart(lol I rhymed) . I do thank you for your concern and the things you have taught me, and I am happy you have found Indra and I wish you nothing but bliss and love in your worship. I will continue my worship of my dear mother Kali, if curiosity takes over your brain Ramakrishna can explain my thought on Kali maa far better than I could.

Namaste.

Hey why do you say that you are leaving this conversation ? Please do post in this thread. I like to read the posts of others. By the way even if I find the appearance of Kali strange and not so appealing its not that I consider her to be some form of devil. I consider her to be Goddess and even though I have not been to her temple till now, if I come across her idol I may do "Namaskar" to her.

Here I would like to ask you one more thing. After reading that the concept of Adi Shakti(of which Kali is part) has its roots in worship of Shachi, what are your views on Shachi ? Do you consider her to be a Goddess ? And would you like to worship her(with ofcourse Kali being the major deity worshipped by you) ?
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
Hey why do you say that you are leaving this conversation ? Please do post in this thread. I like to read the posts of others. By the way even if I find the appearance of Kali strange and not so appealing its not that I consider her to be some form of devil. I consider her to be Goddess and even though I have not been to her temple till now, if I come across her idol I may do "Namaskar" to her.

Here I would like to ask you one more thing. After reading that the concept of Adi Shakti(of which Kali is part) has its roots in worship of Shachi, what are your views on Shachi ? Do you consider her to be a Goddess ? And would you like to worship her(with ofcourse Kali being the major deity worshipped by you) ?

Just so you know this, technically trying to convert people is against the rules. I won't etc mad though ;). Of course she is a goddess. Would I like to worship her? Not particularly not because I am against against her. I just get all I need (for now) from Kali. I don't worship Durga or Shakti either. Ultimately there is only one divine and the deities are emanations of this divine so any true devotion to a deity is true devotion to divine.

But thank you for asking your question in such a nice way. For as long as the conversation keeps up with this calm peaceful tone I would love to continue posting. We should all work hard to get along and teach each other of what we believe and not tell others they are wrong, we have other religions to do that to us we shouldn't do it to our brothers and sisters.
 
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