Hindus & Buddhists: Why we should not kneel to God

[Aupmanyav]

Yes you are Brahman but so is a tiny grain of sand on the beach, so is a fly. .. What Karma Yoga are you doing besides thinking of yourself and how to get away from this life?

Where did I deny this? I have nearly fulfilled all requirements of 'dharma' and am engaged in fulfilling the rest. I have no desire to get away from life. If I get away, how will I fulfill the rest of the requirements. I do not believe in getting away. Getting away, where?

 

[Jedster]

It's all about context. We are naked in the womb too - so let's all just drop our clothes and go about? In the womb, we were cared for, sheltered, protected but we can't stay children all our lives, at some point we have to grow up and the very same mother who protected us, cared for us, will now need our help - it is not our turn to care, shelter and protect the very same woman who did this to us

You can't apply the same rules to everything - that is where context comes in

Some times life is just so overwhelmingly beautiful that I just want to bow down or even completely prostrate.
The first time I remember doing this was when I was walking along a beach and suddenly saw a lone tree, similar to the one in this picture.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is Brahman, Jedster. The tree, the fallen flowers, the sand and the sea. Beautiful and thanks.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram RamaRaksha ji

Looks like we are in agreement - hope l have given you a new perspective on life.

Sadly prabhu ji we are in agreemant on only some points , my veiw in this instance hes not changed , ....

As for showing one's appreciation - A dancer dancing in the Temple before God says, "See my Art, this is my Aradhana" - true Bhakti is not done with words, it is done with action. Try moving away from the Temple, away from the Murthi and see if you can help others, volunteer at a shelter - whether it is Karma Yoga or Bhakti Yoga or Gnana Yoga - none of these involve visiting a Temple. Stop thinking of yourself, what will make you happy - think of the unhappiness of others - share their pain - and as i have posted, the more the pain and suffering, the closer you will get to God

not knowing people you are assuming that there actions are only to please themselves many Buddhists and Hindu take very active roles in caring for the suffering of others and for the suffering of other sentient beings also for the ecology of the planet , ...it is not the taking on of the pain and suffering of others that brings us closser to God it is the realisation thet God resides in all beings and it is god that has expanded into every element of life that we enjoy or that causes us pain , ....whether we know it or not God is everywhere , ...pain comes from attatchment to this life or to this body , ...I understand your thought that pain brings us closser to God but in truth God is ever present what distracts us from this knowledge as you say is self absorbtion , thinking that we are the prime enjoyer , ...when we become aware of the suffering of others we also become aware that pain is subjective , the pain of one may be sepperation from the object of need , to another pain may be from unfullfillment of an irational desire , ...to the Devotee pain comes from the feeling of seperation from God , ...in this respect Pain only brings us closer to God in that pain allows us to see the unsatisfactory and temporary nature of this material life , ....

Last thing about kneeling - if you were to see your parents after a long time, what is the first thing you would do? Say, they have just come out of the train or airport, you go running to them and you do what? kneel? No, you go hug! God wants a hug from his Child, it is the slave that kneels. A Christian presidential candidate recently said that when Jesus comes down, everyone will kneel - Christianity and Islam are Master/Slave religions - they do not view God as a Parent/Teacher - they view God as a Master, they are slaves down on their knees, groveling before the master

you are telling us what God wants, it is you who are imputint this master slave attitude , ...when clearly from Arjunas words in the Gita we can see that he the great Arjuna falls at the feet of the lord out of reverence , ...

pitasi lokasya caracarasya
tvam asya pujyas ca gurur gariyan
na tvat-samo 'sty abhyadhikah kuto 'nyo
loka-traye 'py apratima-prabhava

You are the father of this complete cosmic manifestation, the worshipable chief, the spiritual master. No one is equal to You, nor can anyone be one with You. Within the three worlds, You are immeasurable.


tasmat pranamya pranidhaya kayam
prasadaye tvam aham isam idyam
piteva putrasya sakheva sakhyuh
priyah priyayarhasi deva sodhum

You are the Supreme Lord, to be worshiped by every living being. Thus I fall down to offer You my respects and ask Your mercy. Please tolerate the wrongs that I may have done to You and bear with me as a father with his son, or a friend with his friend, or a lover with his beloved. ........Bhagavad Gita Ch ..11 V ,,43-44

here Arjuna asks for the mercy of the the supreme as the father would be bercifull with a son , ...he asks forgiveness for his overfamiliarity , here Hinduism certainly teaches Humility and although it is true that we may worship in either all or one of five moods it does not say that humility is wrong , each ot thse five Rasa are devotional moods , ...​

Hinduism says we are better than that - your rightful place is God's lap - take your rightful place

Hinduism is broad and Multi faceted , you may wish to sit in the lap of the Mother , this is fine but others may wish to sreve at the feet of Sri Krsna , ...or pake part in Ras Leela

 

[RamaRaksha]

Ha. Just saying well said. In my culture we hug and say I love you. The way its said and done tells the recipent how the other feels.

Many Asian cultures bow or postrate insteadnof hugging. Personal affection among strangers is a no-no.

In other words, if I bowed in front of my mother, she would not associate that with anything religious. If I bowed or postrate in front an elder Korean here in my complex both actions are respectful.

You are talking about religious context. My mother isnt religious so youd have to give another example.

My whole point was what you said was well said. I can take that back if you like.

. I dont know why its wrong but some cultures have different means of showing devotion so I can see some heads tilt.

Thank you - i hope we have learned a bit more due to this discussion. As for many cultures prostrating when greeting another - please give me one example and again, please do not keep using bowing and prostrating or kneeling interchangeably - the former is much different from the latter

I fear that my original intention of the post has been lost - a servant behaves one way, his head is bowed, his back is bent, he asks permission before entering his master's house (christians and muslims begging for mercy down on their knees in front of God - classic slave/servant behavior) - whereas a Child or Student of God does not lower his head, stands or sits up straight, doesn't need permission from his parents to enter the house

That was the intention of my post - nothing to do with religion and everything to do with who we are - there are rational down-to-earth explanations for religions - there are no Gods, no heavens, no nothing - all maybe made up - where did the ancients get their ideas of God from? From powerful people down here on earth - christianity and islam used the King/Master as their template for God and hence the begging and groveling for a reward from the master - hence they behave accordingly
Hinduism/Buddhism used our Parents/Teacher as a template - we are Children/Students of God our behavior must match our status. Our goal is not heaven - cheap pleasures of the flesh - but Moksha - Enlightenment, Knowledge - and Moksha is always Earned, it is never given. You can't beg for knowledge - you say you are a Buddhist - you have gone to school, college? How did you behave in front of your teachers? Have you at any time knelt before them or prostrated before them? I haven't - in fact if i were to do so, they would have viewed that as an insult by them and my fellow classmates would have thought i was trying to get myself in good grades with them by using indecent methods

 

[RamaRaksha]

namaskaram RamaRaksha ji



Sadly prabhu ji we are in agreemant on only some points , my veiw in this instance hes not changed , ....

here Arjuna asks for the mercy of the the supreme as the father would be bercifull with a son , ...he asks forgiveness for his overfamiliarity , here Hinduism certainly teaches Humility and although it is true that we may worship in either all or one of five moods it does not say that humility is wrong , each ot thse five Rasa are devotional moods , ...​

Hinduism is broad and Multi faceted , you may wish to sit in the lap of the Mother , this is fine but others may wish to sreve at the feet of Sri Krsna , ...or pake part in Ras Leela

​

Aaaah - so close - God has no need for servants - She didn't create servants, We are ALL Her Children, that is what She created. You can choose to be a servant but don't think it will make God happy, She will be ashamed. Again, just as with the painting, you blindly follow old texts - don't understand why you disagree with Casteism and Sati then - they are old views also

As for serving at the feet of Sri Krishna or Ras Leela - there you go, thinking of your happiness again - i am sure that is very enjoyable thing to do - dance, be happy - what fun. I just don't see it happening - what you will get is a life form where life will be easier - a tree, a rock - and you will then be happy

Aham Brahmasmi - I am God - how can you be God when you are at His feet? Being God means pain and suffering - the farther away you go from pain and suffering, the farther away you move from God.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram RamaRaksha Ji

Aaaah - so close - God has no need for servants - She didn't create servants, We are ALL Her Children, that is what She created. You can choose to be a servant but don't think it will make God happy, She will be ashamed. Again, just as with the painting, you blindly follow old texts - don't understand why you disagree with Casteism and Sati then - they are old views also

there see you think God is Mata , ... You be happy in Mothers lap I have other things to do , ...

As for serving at the feet of Sri Krishna or Ras Leela - there you go, thinking of your happiness again - i am sure that is very enjoyable thing to do - dance, be happy - what fun. I just don't see it happening - what you will get is a life form where life will be easier - a tree, a rock - and you will then be happy

now you know about Mother , ..I know about Krsna , ....I tell you you dont get a choice to think I will do this for my happiness , ..you (a vaisnava) just do what Krsnas Flute tells you to do , you know we are powerless , ...stop with all this tree , rock stuff , ...we will be happy to be dust at the feet of Sri Krsna , ......

Aham Brahmasmi - I am God - how can you be God when you are at His feet? Being God means pain and suffering - the farther away you go from pain and suffering, the farther away you move from God.

dust is not suffering , dust is happy , ....it dosent need to be God , ..it is happy being dust at the Feet of Sri Krsna

''I am God '' , ...that is good for you , you can be God and sit in Mothers lap , but your God , how does he have a mother ? ..only Krsna has a mother because he took birth as Nanada lal , ..then every woman wants to be his mother , ..so you see God is very clever he turns things arround ,....you want to sit in Gods lap so you try to make him into mother , ..but he is more clever , he makes himself small so he can sit in your lap and get love , ..this is what he wants , ..he wants everyones love , .....

jai jai Nanda Lal

 

[Jedster]

It's all about context. We are naked in the womb too - so let's all just drop our clothes and go about? In the womb, we were cared for, sheltered, protected but we can't stay children all our lives, at some point we have to grow up and the very same mother who protected us, cared for us, will now need our help - it is not our turn to care, shelter and protect the very same woman who did this to us

You can't apply the same rules to everything - that is where context comes in

Well,have you considered that people prostrate because they feel that complete safety they felt in the womb.