• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Hinduism's Karma And Rebirth Cycle Refuted

Refuting the incoherence of Hinduism's "Karma and Rebirth Cycle" can easily be done with pure reasoning alone:

"My dear heroic King, due to my past sincere service to the Lord, I could remember everything of my past life even while in the body of a deer. Because I am aware of the falldown in my past life, I always keep myself separate from the association of ordinary men. Being afraid of their bad, materialistic association, I wander alone unnoticed by others."
~ Srimad Bhagavatam 5.12.15



But before I begin, don't bring up the idea of caste system here as I get it, it's yet another big reason why all those hindus in India or third world countries are leaving hinduism in droves. And I wouldn't blame you on that notion alone. But it's for another topic altogether although it might correlate in that same "unfair" aspect of Hinduism in this topic also.

And yes, if you know the Soul Catching Net theory,. It's heavily derived from Hinduism and is almost exactly the same concept. Just with way more emphasis on the matrix and there's definitely no animal reincarnation due to bad karma dogma. Let's begin.


Their belief of "Karma" was a human construct invented with the purpose of explaining why people suffer more than others and in different ways on earth. So the hindu concept of Karma was invented. And it goes along the lines of this; Humans must be suffering more than others because they have acquired bad karma in a previous life which dictated what their negative consequences will be in their future reincarnations.

The funny thing is, it's pretty much like trying to win the lottery. You rack that lottery stick but you also insert these mythical "bad karma tokens" into the machine at the same time as well which will make you have a greater percentage chance of not having an easier going life in the next one and so the odds will stack up against you that much more.

Not only that but you literally need to reach perfection without a single bit of bad karma and only attaining good karma in your entire life in order to escape this cycle of constant rebirth. Any bit of bad karma will restart the rebirth cycle. Since we are all imperfect beings with our own natural flaws this is an impossibility as no one is perfect in this world.

It really is a prison cycle of rebirth in other words, and seems like a fate worse than the muslim and Christian concept of hell. Yeah, I am giving you guys accolades on that one. And when you really think about it, the whole belief makes no sense for a really good reason which I will explain… even with basic concepts of mathematics!

Humans have finite intelligence due to their brains and are still therefore limited in their memory and intelligence and will never be able to understand everything. No amount of finite numbers could reach infinity mathematically speaking. Therefore, it is an impossibility that you can infinitely remember everything with a finite brain let alone understand how everything works. These basic mathematical concepts undeniably contradict the Hindu "Srimad Bhagavatam scripture 5.12.15" that you can remember everything of your past lives in your future ones. Theoretically, it's actually an impossibility. And in all honesty, do you REALLY remember exactly where you were before you were born?

Hypothetically speaking, you can look at it like this; GOD = infinity and humans = finite. Since the soul is of god and is not of the body, then when the soul departs, it becomes infinitely boundless in every aspect including intelligence once again. But when it is confined to the finite brain of the human body again, it loses its ability to understand everything.

And so with all of that said and done we can now see how the karma and rebirth cycle is working 100% against the individual in EVERY new rebirth. And so this begs the question, how can anyone on this earth correct their bad karma in their new reincarnated state of being if you can never remember everything of your past life related to what good or bad things you did?

This shows us how unjust, despairing and highly cruel this vicious cycle really is. This belief system is dangerous because it counts on you NOT being able to figure out what bad things you did in the past since you are at all times FINITE while on the earth and not infinitely complex.

The matter only gets worse if you so happen to be reincarnated as an animal. Luckily, this is all just a myth. But a cruel one to say the least.


Thank you,

ED
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Refuting the incoherence of Hinduism's "Karma and Rebirth Cycle" can easily be done with pure reasoning alone:

"My dear heroic King, due to my past sincere service to the Lord, I could remember everything of my past life even while in the body of a deer. Because I am aware of the falldown in my past life, I always keep myself separate from the association of ordinary men. Being afraid of their bad, materialistic association, I wander alone unnoticed by others."
~ Srimad Bhagavatam 5.12.15



But before I begin, don't bring up the idea of caste system here as I get it, it's yet another big reason why all those hindus in India or third world countries are leaving hinduism in droves. And I wouldn't blame you on that notion alone. But it's for another topic altogether although it might correlate in that same "unfair" aspect of Hinduism in this topic also.

And yes, if you know the Soul Catching Net theory,. It's heavily derived from Hinduism and is almost exactly the same concept. Just with way more emphasis on the matrix and there's definitely no animal reincarnation due to bad karma dogma. Let's begin.


Their belief of "Karma" was a human construct invented with the purpose of explaining why people suffer more than others and in different ways on earth. So the hindu concept of Karma was invented. And it goes along the lines of this; Humans must be suffering more than others because they have acquired bad karma in a previous life which dictated what their negative consequences will be in their future reincarnations.

The funny thing is, it's pretty much like trying to win the lottery. You rack that lottery stick but you also insert these mythical "bad karma tokens" into the machine at the same time as well which will make you have a greater percentage chance of not having an easier going life in the next one and so the odds will stack up against you that much more.

Not only that but you literally need to reach perfection without a single bit of bad karma and only attaining good karma in your entire life in order to escape this cycle of constant rebirth. Any bit of bad karma will restart the rebirth cycle. Since we are all imperfect beings with our own natural flaws this is an impossibility as no one is perfect in this world.

It really is a prison cycle of rebirth in other words, and seems like a fate worse than the muslim and Christian concept of hell. Yeah, I am giving you guys accolades on that one. And when you really think about it, the whole belief makes no sense for a really good reason which I will explain… even with basic concepts of mathematics!

Humans have finite intelligence due to their brains and are still therefore limited in their memory and intelligence and will never be able to understand everything. No amount of finite numbers could reach infinity mathematically speaking. Therefore, it is an impossibility that you can infinitely remember everything with a finite brain let alone understand how everything works. These basic mathematical concepts undeniably contradict the Hindu "Srimad Bhagavatam scripture 5.12.15" that you can remember everything of your past lives in your future ones. Theoretically, it's actually an impossibility. And in all honesty, do you REALLY remember exactly where you were before you were born?

Hypothetically speaking, you can look at it like this; GOD = infinity and humans = finite. Since the soul is of god and is not of the body, then when the soul departs, it becomes infinitely boundless in every aspect including intelligence once again. But when it is confined to the finite brain of the human body again, it loses its ability to understand everything.

And so with all of that said and done we can now see how the karma and rebirth cycle is working 100% against the individual in EVERY new rebirth. And so this begs the question, how can anyone on this earth correct their bad karma in their new reincarnated state of being if you can never remember everything of your past life related to what good or bad things you did?

This shows us how unjust, despairing and highly cruel this vicious cycle really is. This belief system is dangerous because it counts on you NOT being able to figure out what bad things you did in the past since you are at all times FINITE while on the earth and not infinitely complex.

The matter only gets worse if you so happen to be reincarnated as an animal. Luckily, this is all just a myth. But a cruel one to say the least.


Thank you,

ED
I was with you till you mentioned that reincarnation is worse than the Christian/Muslim concept of an eternal hell, how do you figure that one?

PS Welcome to RF :)

In my opinion
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
But before I begin, don't bring up the idea of caste system here as I get it, it's yet another big reason why all those hindus in India or third world countries are leaving hinduism in droves

Proof? This isn't accurate according to anything I've recently seen.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Not only that but you literally need to reach perfection without a single bit of bad karma and only attaining good karma in your entire life in order to escape this cycle of constant rebirth. Any bit of bad karma will restart the rebirth cycle. Since we are all imperfect beings with our own natural flaws this is an impossibility as no one is perfect in this world

The Gita says none of this.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I was with you till you mentioned that reincarnation is worse than the Christian/Muslim concept of an eternal hell, how do you figure that one?

PS Welcome to RF :)

In my opinion

Eternal hell is a Christian concept but whether it is a Biblical concept is another question.
 

mangalavara

सो ऽहम्
Premium Member
Not only that but you literally need to reach perfection without a single bit of bad karma and only attaining good karma in your entire life in order to escape this cycle of constant rebirth. Any bit of bad karma will restart the rebirth cycle.

Thanks for showing us that your understanding of karma and saṃsāra is not informed by Hindu scriptures.

it's yet another big reason why all those hindus in India or third world countries are leaving hinduism in droves.

Hmm. 'All those Hindus in India and third world countries.' You give me the impression that you are prejudiced towards Indian, Nepali, and Indonesian Hindus.

These basic mathematical concepts undeniably contradict the Hindu "Srimad Bhagavatam scripture 5.12.15" that you can remember everything of your past lives in your future ones.

The speaker in that particular verse said his remembrance of his previous lives was due to something. What was it?

And in all honesty, do you REALLY remember exactly where you were before you were born?

Admittedly, I don't, but I don't see how that makes the doctrine of saṃsāra less credible.

Do you remember being born?

Since the soul is of god and is not of the body, then when the soul departs, it becomes infinitely boundless in every aspect including intelligence once again.

Are you implying that the individual ātman has the faculty of intellect?

how can anyone on this earth correct their bad karma in their new reincarnated state of being if you can never remember everything of your past life related to what good or bad things you did?

You don't have to remember anything.

This shows us how unjust, despairing and highly cruel this vicious cycle really is.

I don't see how it could be unjust when individuals obtain the fruits of their own karmas, good and bad. It's pretty fair if you ask me.

How is it despairing? It's not as if there aren't many ways to attain mokṣa.

How is it highly cruel? It's not as if a person, according to this doctrine, experiences everlasting conscious torment in a lake of fire over a finite deed.

Admittedly, it is a vicious cycle, but it can be ended like all vicious cycles.

This belief system is dangerous

In my experience, dangerous is a word that some individuals love to use when talking about a belief system or doctrine that they despise.

Luckily, this is all just a myth.

Thank you, Gurudevjī Mahārāj, for enlightening me.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I am a believer in reincarnation. Karma is to help us on our path to Liberation from ignorance.
 

Brickjectivity

Brickish Brat
Staff member
Premium Member
Refuting the incoherence of Hinduism's "Karma and Rebirth Cycle" can easily be done with pure reasoning alone:
Thanks for these interesting arguments. I think a couple of them I might refute. One I modify or offer an alternative argument for.

It really is a prison cycle of rebirth in other words, and seems like a fate worse than the muslim and Christian concept of hell. Yeah, I am giving you guys accolades on that one. And when you really think about it, the whole belief makes no sense for a really good reason which I will explain… even with basic concepts of mathematics!
The concept of fiery torture for all of eternity sounds worse to me than infinite opportunities to attain perfection with occasional rest periods.

Humans have finite intelligence due to their brains and are still therefore limited in their memory and intelligence and will never be able to understand everything. No amount of finite numbers could reach infinity mathematically speaking. Therefore, it is an impossibility that you can infinitely remember everything with a finite brain let alone understand how everything works. These basic mathematical concepts undeniably contradict the Hindu "Srimad Bhagavatam scripture 5.12.15" that you can remember everything of your past lives in your future ones. Theoretically, it's actually an impossibility. And in all honesty, do you REALLY remember exactly where you were before you were born?
This debunk does not match the real claim of reincarnation. The claim is that we do not have a finite mind limited by our brains but a mind that exists without brains, so it is not a matter of mathematics.

This shows us how unjust, despairing and highly cruel this vicious cycle really is. This belief system is dangerous because it counts on you NOT being able to figure out what bad things you did in the past since you are at all times FINITE while on the earth and not infinitely complex.

The matter only gets worse if you so happen to be reincarnated as an animal. Luckily, this is all just a myth. But a cruel one to say the least.
Assuming that something like reincarnation is possible it also seems entirely possible that there is no such comfort as forward progress and that all of us are actually one being living a large number of lives in random order. Why not? Don't humans have a bias to believe in forward progress? I think we do. For a while people hoped that civilizations would always gradually move forward towards a maximum good. They spoke of 'Developing' civilizations and 'Level of civilization' and of 'Stages in History'; but History has no stages unless we make them.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
But before I begin, don't bring up the idea of caste system here as I get it, it's yet another big reason why all those hindus in India or third world countries are leaving hinduism in droves.
If they leave Hinduism individually or in droves, why should it worry you when we do not worry about it? Indian Constitution gives them the right to practice whatever religion they want to pursue.
It is easy to answer questions. How does one answer a rant?
How did we become ignorant?
What does a new born know? We are born ignorant. Knowledge and wisdom come from teaching and experiencing life.
Luckily, this is all just a myth. But a cruel one to say the least.
Yes, life is not a bed of roses, but what is not a myth?
 
Last edited:

Brian2

Veteran Member
What does a new born know? We are born ignorant. Knowledge and wisdom come from teaching and experiencing life.

I agree, but how did God become ignorant?
But your sort of Hinduism where you do not believe in God/s does not suite the question.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I agree, but how did God become ignorant?
But your sort of Hinduism where you do not believe in God/s does not suite the question.
In my view, God does not exist. It is an imaginary creature.
Moreover, I do not believe in birth, death and reincarnation.
Advaita non dual Hinduism is a no nonsense philosophy.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
So God forgets He is God?
Here's an analogy. A great actor will allow himself to forget that he is this great famous talented actor and identify himself for a limited time with the character he is portraying.

Why? Why do humans do things with no practical purpose (plays/drama, art). Answer: To Experience.
 
Top