• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Hinduism is Hard Polytheism

Pleroma

philalethist
Rig Veda HYMN XXXV. Visvedevas.

1. BEFRIEND us with their aids Indra and Agni, Indra and Varuna who receive oblations!
Indra and Soma give health, strength and comfort, Indra and Pusan be our help in battle.
2 Auspicious Friends to us be Bhaga, Sathsa, auspicious be Purandhi aid all Riches;
The blessing of the true and well-conducted, and Aryaman in many forms apparent.
3 Kind unto us he Maker and Sustainer, and the far-reaching Pair with God-like natures.
Auspicious unto us be Earth and Heaven, the Mountain, and the Gods' fair invocations.
4 Favour us Agni with his face of splendour, and Varuva and Mitra and the Asvins.
Favour us noble actions of the pious, impetuous vita blow on us with favour.
5 Early invoked, may Heaven and Earth be friendly, and Air's mid-region good for us to look on.To us may Herbs and Forest-Trees be gracious, gracious the Lord Victorious of the region.
6 Be the God Indra with the Vasus friendly, and, with Adityas, Varuna who blesseth.
Kind, with the Rudras, be the Healer Rudra, and, with the Dames, may Tvastar kindly listen.
7 Blest unto us be Soma, and devotions, blest be the Sacrifice, the Stones for pressing.
Blest be the fixing of the sacred Pillars, blest be the tender Grass and blest the Altar.
8 May the far-seeing Sun rise up to bless us: be the four Quarters of the sky auspicious.
Auspicious be the firmly-seated Mountains, auspicious be the Rivers and the Waters.
9 May Adid through holy works be gracioas, and may the Maruts, loud in song, be friendly.
May Visnu give felicity, and Pusan, the Air that cherisheth our life, and Vayu.
10 Prosper us Savitar, the God who rescues, and let the radiant Mornings be propitious.
Auspicious to all creatures be Parjanya, auspicious be the field's benign Protector.
11 May all the fellowship of Gods befriend us, Sarasvati, with Holy Thoughts, be gracious.
Friendly be they, the Liberal Ones who seek us, yea, those who dwell in heaven, on earth, in waters.
12 May the great Lords of Truth protect and aid us: blest to us be our horses and our cattle.
Kind be the pious skilful-handed Rbhus, kind be the Fathers at our invocations.
13 May Aja-Ekapad, the God, be gracious, gracious the Dragon of the Deep, and Ocean.
Gracious be he the swelling Child of Waters, gracious be Prsni who hath Gods to guard her.
14 So may the Rudras, Vasus, and Adityas accept the new hymn which we now are making.
May all the Holy Ones of earth and heaven, and the Cow's offipring hear our invocation.
15 They who of Holy Gods are very holy, Immortal, knowing Law, whom man must worship,-
May these to-day give us broad paths to travel. Preserve us evermore, ye Gods, with blessings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is Hinduism, This is Sruti, Hindus worship all the gods mentioned in the Visvedevas. Not even a single deity will be excluded from the pantheon. The Rig Vedic religion is our root, our mother and is the basis for Hinduism. Without the Vedas there are no Upanishads and there is no Hindu darshanas and no acharyas. Yes the Acharyas were great but they were not as great as the Vedic Rishis, if the Acharyas have said anything against sruti then they too can be criticized and not otherwise.

The very definition of Hard polytheism falsifies a thousand other philosophical positions. Sruti is the final word in Hinduism and if any member in this forum do not believe in the Vedas then he should be immediately considered as anti-Hindu. Even Bhagavad Gita can be discarded if there is a verse which goes against the Vedas but as everyone knows Bhagavad Gita does not in any way contradict the Vedas when the spiritual meaning of it is understood correctly.

Hindus are least obligated to make our religion more appealing to the modern world or especially to the western academic world. Our Vedic rishis did not knew particle physics or quantum physics but they were wise enough not to conflate the epistemology of Science and the epistemology of the Vedas. In the Lalitha Sahasranama it is said,

antarmukha samaaraadhyaa bahirmukha sudurlabhaa || 162

According to Indian psychology mind and brain are two different things. Samkhya philosophy avoids the problem of substance dualism in Cartesian dualism by stating that even Mind is made of prakrithi and therefore it can interact and stimulate the brain. In Hindu philosophy there is a technique called Samyama which means to disentangle the mind from the jnanendriyas and the karmendriyas. When the mind is in this state it is said to gaze inwards and this is called antarmukha and in this way the Vedic rishis were able to discover many of the truths of the cosmos. When the mind is entangled with the jnanendriyas and the karmendriyas we see the empirical world of science which is the normal state of the mind called the bahirmukha state. Therefore the epistemology of Science and the Hindu darshanas are fundamentally distinct without knowing this wisdom many scientific minded people since they do not find any evidence for nadis, chakras, deities etc they reject the Hindu darshanas and go on to interpret the scriptures the way they want and they even dare to modify the sruti and say the acharyas were ignorant of science and justify their stance stubbornly insulting the tradition of Vedic Acharyas and go on to form their own path without realizing the wisdom that one can gain from the tradition.

It is not the Vedas which need to be modified it is science and the scientific community which need to change. John Eccles, the noble prize winner in Neurophysiology was a strong proponent of Mind-Body dualism, Eugene Wigner and his Wigner's friend problem shows that mind body dualism is the only solution out of the Wigner's friend problem. All these new scientific findings support the old Samkhya theory affirmed by our Vedic Rishis. Hindus need not worry that their religion is contradictory to science, no our religion is not in any way contradictory to science in fact science is affirming what the Vedic rishis were saying all along and it does encourage one to study the Hindu darshanas more rigorously. Hindus are not fools and we are very much aware of the new scientific findings and we also know where do we stand at the world scene in terms of our Hindu philosophy. Mind body dualism is an essential feature for Hindu philosophy to be true and we are going to continue to model our world in this way.

Anti-Hindus and anti-Hindu missionaries want to divide us and want to segregate us so that we don't realize the truth in our scriptures. No matter how much they ridicule us for our hard polytheism, idolatry, rituals, magic etc. We know what we are doing and we know our philosophy better than any barbaric western philosopher. We are not going to change even a single bit. As you can see even the Puranas are very important and every shloka, every mantra is important because each shloka and each mantra reveals the supreme hidden wisdom of the cosmos and the deities. Do not get confused about the variety of sects in Hinduism despite differences there is wisdom to be gained in every sect and each sect can learn a lot from the other there by better appreciating and acknowledging our Vedic roots and that we all came from the same source. Why should there be any jealousy among the Hindus? Hindus should remain united despite its differences. Rather than viewing Hindu sects as individualistic and separate from each other one should view them as a collective who all share and acknowledge the same Hindu philosophy.

Upanishads are not the end of the Vedas instead they are ending message of the Vedas. The Vedic gods were still prevalent at the times of the Upanishads and I can give various references for that and an Ishtadevata as Ishvara is albeit necessary to know Brahman. The Upanishads do not reject the Vedic gods instead they just acknowledge the supreme wisdom, kind-heartedness, truthfulness, unselfishness and holiness of the Vedic gods that they guide us towards light rather than towards darkness and take nothing in return.
 
Last edited:

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
A little random but R.V.1.164.46 is, in fact, dedicated to the Vishvedeva-s---heck, the whole sukta is dedicated to the Vishvedeva-s. Furthermore, it's specifically addressed to the Vedic concept known as kalachakra (the wheel of time; the "churner of time"---Rta, the cosmic law). Unfortunately, it's been hijacked by Hindu monotheists, universalists, and the like.

I'd be more than willing to engage in the bahudeva perspective if the conversation can be kept civil and other epistemic and ontological realities are acknowledged as valid (since there is support from Shruti for [kat-]henotheism, pan[en]theism, and even a "softer" version of monotheism; monism is there as well, along with dualism and their hybrid-like positions).
 
Last edited:

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Hinduism is every 'ism' that Wikipedia lists but the majority is hard polytheist.The two streams that merged to create Hinduism, indigenous and Aryan, both are polytheist.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
There is no such thing as the Aryan invasion.

Luis, it's actually hard to tell. Using these terms I suspect if a questionaire was handed out, the most common answer would be 'I don't know."
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
Henotheism, or inclusive monotheism, is probably a more accurate description of Hinduism. Despite the fact that many people don't want to hear it, things do change over time; religion included. As such, It may have been hard polytheistic in the past, but that's not really the majority of the case of Sanatana Dharma nowadays.

And you know what? That's perfectly fine.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I disagree. I think that Hinduism is hard monotheism, but the worship of other Devas is allowed.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Would not hard monotheism imply that there are no other Devas?

That depends on the definition of deva. (Deva) Take Ganesha, for instance. Some people would say hes a god, whilst others would call him a big important deva. Often deva (not capitalised) is used to indicate all the minor but helpful beings hovering about, whereas Deva is when it's a god.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
That depends on the definition of deva. (Deva) Take Ganesha, for instance. Some people would say hes a god, whilst others would call him a big important deva. Often deva (not capitalised) is used to indicate all the minor but helpful beings hovering about, whereas Deva is when it's a god.

Fair enough, but such a view is technically not accepted by hard monotheism, which claims that no other worships are valid besides that of the one true God. As Axlyz just said, what you describe is more accurately monolatry.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Does that mean you are not going to worship any other deity other than Vishnu?

I won't worship any other deity other than Vishnu as Supreme. But I have no problem worshiping Shiva or others as Hari-Bhaktas. That is the standard way for Vaishnavas to worship other gods.
 

Pleroma

philalethist
I'd be more than willing to engage in the bahudeva perspective if the conversation can be kept civil and other epistemic and ontological realities are acknowledged as valid (since there is support from Shruti for [kat-]henotheism, pan[en]theism, and even a "softer" version of monotheism; monism is there as well, along with dualism and their hybrid-like positions).

Strictly speaking even when the view is henotheism, monism, a "softer" version of monothesim or panentheism you cannot do away with the bahudeva perspective. Its still there.
 

Pleroma

philalethist
I won't worship any other deity other than Vishnu as Supreme. But I have no problem worshiping Shiva or others as Hari-Bhaktas. That is the standard way for Vaishnavas to worship other gods.

This would be considered as Henotheism.

"Henotheism (Greek εἷς θεός heis theos "one god") is the belief in and worship of a single God while accepting the existence or possible existence of other deities that may also be worshipped. The term was originally coined by Friedrich Wilhelm Joseph von Schelling (1775–1854) to depict early stages of monotheism."
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This would be considered as Henotheism.

"Henotheism (Greek εἷς θεός heis theos "one god") is the belief in and worship of a single God while accepting the existence or possible existence of other deities that may also be worshipped. The term was originally coined by Friedrich Wilhelm Joseph von Schelling (1775–1854) to depict early stages of monotheism."

What would be the difference between henotheism and monolatry?
 

Stormcry

Well-Known Member
It's really sad seeing what's going in Hinduism circle, regarding shruti. It's really ridiculous when someone talks about which god is most praised in veda or vedic gods are different from puranik gods.. Under delusion, they really think veda really praises various minor gods and it's an important aspect of veda, they say. But in fact by mentioning various minor gods veda is indicating Brahman only. Which god is supreme or which is lower, is not subject of veda. Vishnu is the creator and knower of veda. No one except him and devotees who are one knows veda. All others,are just wondering here and there trying to understanding shruti declining the Vedanta explained by purana. Shri Krishna, Brahman, goal of veda, declares the very secret of veda. Krishna says: “The Vedas enjoins me alone in the form of Yadnya, me alone in the form of various deities in Devata Kanda nay whatever is super-imposed on me first and then negated in Dnyana kandas is me alone taking this stand on me as the cause of all causes and the highest reality, the Vedas posit (states) diversity as a mere illusion and then denying it, ultimately becomes quiet. This much is the import of all the Vedas. (BG 11.21.43) Just like swans who separate water from milk, Real vedic seekers takes the inner meaning of Upanishads, they search how and from whom the Jeeva came into existence, they are the true seekers who search what is Atman and they are real devotees.
 
Top