Help Me Decide!

[HopefulNikki]

Come now, you must have adopted some beliefs in this lifetime.

I outlined my basic beliefs above; I don't pretend to be the founder of my own religion because I don't pretend to have complete (or even mostly complete) truth.

 

[Sunstone]

I like the basic philosophy of Buddhism, i.e. balance, harmony, inner contemplation, etc, but don't believe in reincarnation at this point and don't see a reason to.

There are many schools of Buddhism. You don't need to believe in reincarnation to pursue Buddhist practice and teachings.

 

[HB3]

As far as I am aware, "Church" is a generally Christian term, and other religions and members of other religions can also provide social and emotional support. ...

I agree completely and did not meant to imply that only Christian groups could offer these things. That is why I said I was using the term loosely. Sorry if I was unclear about that.

 

[Katzpur]

Well, if the laws of gravity "feel wrong to me," then I'm just wrong, my feelings are basically irrelevant to the truth of the matter. I guess I'm optimistic that, if I am shown the error of my ways, so to speak, that the truths I am exposed to would "feel right" since I would know in my heart that they are right. Does that make any sense? lol

Yes, it makes sense, but I really don't think it's possible for one person to show another person "the error of their ways" -- at least in terms of spiritual truths. I guess what I'm saying is that I could go up against any Catholic or Protestant with "evidence" that they're wrong and I'm right. Depending upon how skilled a debater the other person was, I might come out the "winner" and I might not. Either way, it wouldn't make an ounce of difference in what the truth really was. Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to be saying that it's not safe to trust our feelings when it comes to knowing what's true and what's not. I'm just saying that trusting our feelings -- in terms of spiritual truths -- is every bit as reliable as allowing ourselves to be swayed by logical arguments presented by fallible human beings.

I don't know whether you're considering some religion outside of Christianity, or limiting your options to one of the Christian denominations. I wouldn't even know enough about Buddhism or Hinduism, for instance, to even be able to address their merits. Maybe you're just asking this question for the purposes of encouraging an interesting discussion. If, however, you are seriously looking at any of the Christian denominations, you might want to stop and think about what Jesus said to Peter, as recorded in Matthew 16:13-17.

"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

I think He was saying essentially what I'm trying to say. When it comes to knowing what is true and what isn't, there is no better source than God himself. He testifies to us, through the power of the Holy Ghost, what He wants us to know. You can call it "what feels right" or you can call it something else, but what God tells you is never going to "feel wrong."

I'll try to phrase this nicely, because I always love your posts here, Katz, but...isn't that basically what Mormons do when they go door to door, etc?

Thank you for the compliment, Nikki. I appreciate it, really. I can understand why that would be your perspective of what LDS missionaries do when they go door to door, but I don't really think that's an accurate way of explaining it. Convincing you or anybody else to embrace Mormonism would accomplish nothing for either your or the missionaries. One of our Apostles, M. Russell Ballard, wrote a book called "Our Search for Happiness: An Invitation to Understand the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." The purpose of the book is simply to explain our beliefs to people who are interested in learning about them. At the end of the book, he says, "Please don't let this opportunity to receive personal revelation from God pass. Consider what I've written here. Weigh it carefully. Measure it against the things you believe -- and the things you want to believe. Hold fast to all that you know to be true and add to that the fulness of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Take into account what you've felt as you've read these words. Then put it all to the ultimate test: Ask God. Listen for His answer with your heart, then respond to what you feel." That is essentially the same approach the LDS missionaries take when then go door to door.

Anyway, I think I know how you feel about Mormonism. It's been a long time, but I do remember talking to you about it, and I'm okay with it. The only reason I even bothered to respond to this thread was to try to explain where I think you should start looking for the truth, and my original advise stands.

Well, all that I am basically sure of is a belief in God (monotheism, although maybe panentheism??) and perhaps a belief that there is a degree of truth in a lot of religions, although that statement probably doesn't mean much.

As far as there being a degree of truth in a lot of religions, I would definitely agree. I would just add that the God I worship is going to judge your heart more heavily than He's going to judge the decision you make as to which, if any, religion you end up following.

 

[Sonic247]

I think He was saying essentially what I'm trying to say. When it comes to knowing what is true and what isn't, there is no better source than God himself. He testifies to us, through the power of the Holy Ghost, what He wants us to know. You can call it "what feels right" or you can call it something else, but what God tells you is never going to "feel wrong."

I know what the Holy Ghost is (by experience) and it doesn't feel wrong. But what someone might interpret this to mean is that what feels right and what God is saying are the same things, (and that may not be what you meant but that is exactly how alot of people think). It's important to remember that "there's a way that seems right to man, but the end therof are the ways of death."

 

[Katzpur]

I know what the Holy Ghost is (by experience) and it doesn't feel wrong. But what someone might interpret this to mean is that what feels right and what God is saying are the same things, (and that may not be what you meant but that is exactly how alot of people think). It's important to remember that "there's a way that seems right to man, but the end therof are the ways of death."

That's not what I meant, and I appreciate your stepping in to clarify that. I agree with you, actually.

 

[Sonic247]

I actually agree with some of the thing you wrote too. About truth coming from God alone based on his question to Peter. Another good verse would be what Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life." If Nikki wants to find the truth it all starts with Jesus.

 

[Dream Angel]

Yes, it makes sense, but I really don't think it's possible for one person to show another person "the error of their ways" -- at least in terms of spiritual truths. I guess what I'm saying is that I could go up against any Catholic or Protestant with "evidence" that they're wrong and I'm right. Depending upon how skilled a debater the other person was, I might come out the "winner" and I might not. Either way, it wouldn't make an ounce of difference in what the truth really was. Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to be saying that it's not safe to trust our feelings when it comes to knowing what's true and what's not. I'm just saying that trusting our feelings -- in terms of spiritual truths -- is every bit as reliable as allowing ourselves to be swayed by logical arguments presented by fallible human beings.

I don't know whether you're considering some religion outside of Christianity, or limiting your options to one of the Christian denominations. I wouldn't even know enough about Buddhism or Hinduism, for instance, to even be able to address their merits. Maybe you're just asking this question for the purposes of encouraging an interesting discussion. If, however, you are seriously looking at any of the Christian denominations, you might want to stop and think about what Jesus said to Peter, as recorded in Matthew 16:13-17.

"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

I think He was saying essentially what I'm trying to say. When it comes to knowing what is true and what isn't, there is no better source than God himself. He testifies to us, through the power of the Holy Ghost, what He wants us to know. You can call it "what feels right" or you can call it something else, but what God tells you is never going to "feel wrong."

Thank you for the compliment, Nikki. I appreciate it, really. I can understand why that would be your perspective of what LDS missionaries do when they go door to door, but I don't really think that's an accurate way of explaining it. Convincing you or anybody else to embrace Mormonism would accomplish nothing for either your or the missionaries. One of our Apostles, M. Russell Ballard, wrote a book called "Our Search for Happiness: An Invitation to Understand the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." The purpose of the book is simply to explain our beliefs to people who are interested in learning about them. At the end of the book, he says, "Please don't let this opportunity to receive personal revelation from God pass. Consider what I've written here. Weigh it carefully. Measure it against the things you believe -- and the things you want to believe. Hold fast to all that you know to be true and add to that the fulness of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Take into account what you've felt as you've read these words. Then put it all to the ultimate test: Ask God. Listen for His answer with your heart, then respond to what you feel." That is essentially the same approach the LDS missionaries take when then go door to door.

Anyway, I think I know how you feel about Mormonism. It's been a long time, but I do remember talking to you about it, and I'm okay with it. The only reason I even bothered to respond to this thread was to try to explain where I think you should start looking for the truth, and my original advise stands.

As far as there being a degree of truth in a lot of religions, I would definitely agree. I would just add that the God I worship is going to judge your heart more heavily than He's going to judge the decision you make as to which, if any, religion you end up following.

Some good points Katzpur - there is this one too, that you gave to me:-

“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him” ( James 1:5).

 

[neves]

I'm sure that this type of thread has been circulated plenty of time before, but...Why should I become a member of your religion? Are there any religions should I definitely not become a meber of? Please, don't tell me, "do what feels right to you" or anything like that, nor tell me to fill out a Belief-O-Matic style quiz. Tell me what you personally think and what evidence leads you to that conclusion.

Okay... so far you know that you believe to be true...

1. There is one God
2. All regions have some truth to it...

do you mind if I ask you a few questions...?

Okay I'll ask one at a time so you can think about it... Do you believe in Divine revelation? To clarify... what I mean is God communicating to mankind… That would be through like scriptures, dreams etc...

 

[may]

I'm sure that this type of thread has been circulated plenty of time before, but...Why should I become a member of your religion? Are there any religions should I definitely not become a meber of? Please, don't tell me, "do what feels right to you" or anything like that, nor tell me to fill out a Belief-O-Matic style quiz. Tell me what you personally think and what evidence leads you to that conclusion.

i think it would be most beneficial to you if you joined the great crowd spoken of in revelation 7;9-10 this great crowd is from ALL nations and they are welcoming the one with the legal right to Gods throne . and they are at the momment in a spiritual paradise , but at a future time they will be in a litral earthly paradise . great blessing are ahead not only now but in the future also for this great crowd . and the gathering goes on .................. nice ............. these ones will get through the great tribulation so it will be most beneficial to you to join this great crowd.

 

[HopefulNikki]

There are many schools of Buddhism. You don't need to believe in reincarnation to pursue Buddhist practice and teachings.

Only the most modern, Westernized versions of Buddhism do not believe in reincarnation, am I right?

 

[HopefulNikki]

Yes, it makes sense, but I really don't think it's possible for one person to show another person "the error of their ways" -- at least in terms of spiritual truths. I guess what I'm saying is that I could go up against any Catholic or Protestant with "evidence" that they're wrong and I'm right. Depending upon how skilled a debater the other person was, I might come out the "winner" and I might not. Either way, it wouldn't make an ounce of difference in what the truth really was.

This is true to an extent, but I also don't believe we've been hung out to dry in terms of evidence, either...it should be possible to make an informed decision based on the evidence. This wouldn't be based on any one debate or presentation of one side, but on the summation of the evidence that's out there. I just don't think I'm quite there yet.

Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to be saying that it's not safe to trust our feelings when it comes to knowing what's true and what's not. I'm just saying that trusting our feelings -- in terms of spiritual truths -- is every bit as reliable as allowing ourselves to be swayed by logical arguments presented by fallible human beings.

That's not what I'm saying. It's not always unsafe to trust our feelings, although I believe that it can be. Also, I don't think I agree that subjective feelings are as reliable as objective evidence. To me this seems almost self-evident, although if you'd like to explain why you think that, I'd love to hear.

I don't know whether you're considering some religion outside of Christianity, or limiting your options to one of the Christian denominations.

I was raised Christian, and I'm not ruling it out, although I don't know too terribly much about a lot of other religions and I was inquiring about them as well.

Maybe you're just asking this question for the purposes of encouraging an interesting discussion.

That, too.

If, however, you are seriously looking at any of the Christian denominations, you might want to stop and think about what Jesus said to Peter, as recorded in Matthew 16:13-17.

"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

JUst about every Christian denomination believes that Jesus is the Son of God. Are you suggesting that this verse could help narrow down which denom is most true or theologically accurate? Or that it offers some particular apologetic in favor of Mormonism?

I think He was saying essentially what I'm trying to say. When it comes to knowing what is true and what isn't, there is no better source than God himself. He testifies to us, through the power of the Holy Ghost, what He wants us to know. You can call it "what feels right" or you can call it something else, but what God tells you is never going to "feel wrong."

I believe God gave us minds to reason and a universe ruled by consistent laws, and through such things is probably the most basic and primary way that God "speaks" to us.

Thank you for the compliment, Nikki. I appreciate it, really. I can understand why that would be your perspective of what LDS missionaries do when they go door to door, but I don't really think that's an accurate way of explaining it. Convincing you or anybody else to embrace Mormonism would accomplish nothing for either your or the missionaries. One of our Apostles, M. Russell Ballard, wrote a book called "Our Search for Happiness: An Invitation to Understand the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." The purpose of the book is simply to explain our beliefs to people who are interested in learning about them.

For the purpose of evangelism, yes?

At the end of the book, he says, "Please don't let this opportunity to receive personal revelation from God pass. Consider what I've written here. Weigh it carefully. Measure it against the things you believe -- and the things you want to believe. Hold fast to all that you know to be true and add to that the fulness of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Take into account what you've felt as you've read these words. Then put it all to the ultimate test: Ask God. Listen for His answer with your heart, then respond to what you feel." That is essentially the same approach the LDS missionaries take when then go door to door.

That sounds like an extremely persuasive ending, designed for evangelism, as I said. That doesn't mean it's bad, necessarily, but it is what it is. I don't think we should believe things just because we "want to believe" them and are "respond[ing] to what [we] feel." I believe truth can be more concrete than that, and arrived at more objectively than that.

As far as there being a degree of truth in a lot of religions, I would definitely agree. I would just add that the God I worship is going to judge your heart more heavily than He's going to judge the decision you make as to which, if any, religion you end up following

Thanks.

 

[Sonic247]

As a someone who goes to a baptist church I suggest you get a KJV and a plate of biscuits and gravy then turn to the Gospel of John and start reading.

 

[ayani]

ok- there are a number of things i like about my faith. the practice is, for me, simple, beautiful, and redeptive. in prayer, i continue to find for answers and more questions, challenge myself, and am often simply moved by the experience of sitting and reciting. i work through my faith socially and expressively, and though i have stretches of road that are dry or discouraging, i am grateful for the manifestation of Truth that is my practice.

i've got a little blog down below that kind of goes into things deeper and day-to-day, if you'd like to check it out. the first post would be a good place to start, as the other ones may not make alot of sense without it.

 

[*Paul*]

You need full pardon for your sins not a religion, get that first. No religion can remove the guilty sentence that you have for breaking the mighty Jehovahs Law.

You will only find this through Jesus Christ seek Him with all your heart, read the gospels, read the epistles, pray to Him, ask Him to help you and believe that He will, His Spirit will help you pray and as you grow in faith His Spirit will open the eyes of your understanding in the scriptures.
He alone can give you what you need and is willing to if you will only come to HIm.

 

[*Paul*]

As a someone who goes to a baptist church I suggest you get a KJV and a plate of biscuits and gravy then turn to the Gospel of John and start reading.

I love that advice brother.

 

[Katzpur]

JUst about every Christian denomination believes that Jesus is the Son of God. Are you suggesting that this verse could help narrow down which denom is most true or theologically accurate? Or that it offers some particular apologetic in favor of Mormonism?

In theory, I think it could help narrow down which denomination is the most true, but I am at a loss as to how this actually works in practice. Victor, for example, would tell you that the Holy Ghost has testified to him that Roman Catholicism is true. I would tell you, on the other hand, that the Holy Ghost has confirmed to me that Mormonism is true. I don't believe that any of us are in a position to pass judgment on anyone else's spiritual experiences, except to say that, for whatever reason, we don't always end up getting the same answer even when we're all asking the same question.

I believe God gave us minds to reason and a universe ruled by consistent laws, and through such things is probably the most basic and primary way that God "speaks" to us.

I can go along with that.

For the purpose of evangelism, yes?

I guess that's a matter of interpretation. I already told you how he ends the book. He begins it by saying, "If I had to pick one word to describe my objective in writing this book, it would be understanding. More than anything else, I would like those who read these pages -- especially those who are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- to better understand the Church and its members. That doesn't necessarily mean that my goal is to have every reader become a member of the Church, or even to accept our doctrines and practices -- although I would be less than honest if I did not acknowledge that I would be pleased to see those things happen. But that isn't really the purpose of this book. This book is about comprehension and understanding, not conversion. It has more to do with building truth, appreciation, and respect than it does with increasing church membership."

I don't think we should believe things just because we "want to believe" them and are "respond[ing] to what [we] feel." I believe truth can be more concrete than that, and arrived at more objectively than that.

Seriously, I think it's a combination of both, of faith and reason working together.

 

[HopefulNikki]

In theory, I think it could help narrow down which denomination is the most true, but I am at a loss as to how this actually works in practice. Victor, for example, would tell you that the Holy Ghost has testified to him that Roman Catholicism is true. I would tell you, on the other hand, that the Holy Ghost has confirmed to me that Mormonism is true. I don't believe that any of us are in a position to pass judgment on anyone else's spiritual experiences, except to say that, for whatever reason, we don't always end up getting the same answer even when we're all asking the same question.

And that kind of illustration is exactly what I think invalidates the use (or, at least, exclusive use) of "gut" or "spiritual" feeling over and above intellect and use of logic and objective evidence. Which one of you has really been spoken to by the Holy Spirit, you or Victor? Both? Neither? There's no way that I can think of to objectify that, and such experiences and feelings are only sufficient to convince one person: you, and very subjectively at that.

I guess that's a matter of interpretation. I already told you how he ends the book. He begins it by saying, "If I had to pick one word to describe my objective in writing this book, it would be understanding. More than anything else, I would like those who read these pages -- especially those who are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- to better understand the Church and its members. That doesn't necessarily mean that my goal is to have every reader become a member of the Church, or even to accept our doctrines and practices -- although I would be less than honest if I did not acknowledge that I would be pleased to see those things happen. But that isn't really the purpose of this book. This book is about comprehension and understanding, not conversion. It has more to do with building truth, appreciation, and respect than it does with increasing church membership."

Fair enough; the author admits it's more about understanding than conversion.

Seriously, I think it's a combination of both, of faith and reason working together.

I agree. Thanks so much for your thoughts, Katz!

 

[HopefulNikki]

Okay... so far you know that you believe to be true...

1. There is one God
2. All regions have some truth to it...

do you mind if I ask you a few questions...?

Sorry, didn't mean to ignore you! Yes, ask away.

Okay I'll ask one at a time so you can think about it... Do you believe in Divine revelation? To clarify... what I mean is God communicating to mankind… That would be through like scriptures, dreams etc..

Your examples offer a sort of quandry in terms of what you mean by divine revelation. Written Scriptures are physical, objective, public things; dreams are subjective and incredibly personal, private things. Those are two very different forms of communication.
I have not seen sufficient evidence to convince me beyond reasonable doubt that any Scriptures are divinely "revealed," and I've never had a dream in which God has appeared to me or spoken to me. That being said, I also cannot say that such things are impossible, and don't see any reason to rule them out.

 

[HopefulNikki]

i think it would be most beneficial to you if you joined the great crowd spoken of in revelation 7;9-10 this great crowd is from ALL nations and they are welcoming the one with the legal right to Gods throne . and they are at the momment in a spiritual paradise , but at a future time they will be in a litral earthly paradise . great blessing are ahead not only now but in the future also for this great crowd . and the gathering goes on .................. nice ............. these ones will get through the great tribulation so it will be most beneficial to you to join this great crowd.

Hi May! I don't think I've ever spoken to you before on here? Are you a Jehovah's Witness?

Out of curiosity, how would one become part of that "great crowd"?